Can we obtain perfection?

[WherevertheWindblows]

Nor, would I also add, are the English and Chinese words for faith identical to the Hebrew and Greek words for faith. Thus, it seems that no language really shares the same word for faith.

Hey bbbbbbb, hope you are well. Yeah, obviously the languages are different even as they are between the Hebrew and Greek but in the case of it being the scriptures its probably much easier to catch some sort of sameness spring boarding off some of the old when the same is used as an example in the new. Whether an example in the OT that is used in the NT or whether the OT is quoted in the NT (but written in another language). Regardless of the language being different between them (even as far as a word goes) I would still think that in most cases this would aid us in better understanding how they might be speaking the same.

For example,

Habakkuk 2:4, "the just shall live by his faith" ...and Romans 1:17... the just shall live by faith, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 11:38 Now the just shall live by faith...

Not sure about the same words in every place but it speaks of perfecting that which is lacking in their faith and James also about how faith (even in respects top Abraham's) itself is being made perfect there. Hebrews 11 showing how by faith folks moved like Noah in fear to build an Ark or Abraham when called to go out went, that sort of thing.

And also since faith works by love and we are being perfected in the same seems pretty much interconnected.

God richly bless you

 

[watchman 2]

I have to go with watchman on this one my friend. Our salvation is also contingent on obedience. Not that we are saved by works but that abiding in Christ will produce works and a lack of works represents a lack of faith.

Our Salvation" is not" contingent on obedience. It's contingent on true saving Faith and faithing period.

What is true saving Faith?
A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Our Salvation" is not" contingent on obedience. It's contingent on true saving Faith and faithing period.

What is true saving Faith?
A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Romans 1:5 speaks of receiving grace for the "obedience of the faith" as does Romans 16:26 and his commandment (we are called to obey) in 1 John 3:23 is to "to believe" as well as to love one another

 

[Der Alte]

Is this downloadable from any particular site?

The source I cited cost about $30.00 but there is an earlier version online which can be consulted but not downloaded.
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, Gingrich & Danker

 

[Der Alte]

begin

<WM>I'm glad you have the desire to know more about Christ through education. But your much better off keeping yours eyes open for a gifted teacher God may put in your path.
I've only known one in 33 years. He teaches at a Stanford University level, and owns the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. So he has all original documents at his finger tips to teach from.
I've been learning at this level daily for over 33 years. And been having the true Salvation experience at the same time.
You may want to consider what I put down to be tested .<WM>

end

It appears you presume that my eyes are not open, that I have not been taught by gifted teachers and/or I have not had a true salvation experience. Perhaps you might be better off keeping your eyes open for a gifted teacher like some that I have sat under. One of my Greek profs was on the NIV committee. Perhaps you might do well to abide by the forums rules and address the topic and not the person.

 

[Gr8Grace]

The source I cited cost about $30.00 but there is an earlier version online which can be consulted but not downloaded.
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, Gingrich & Danker

Thank you.

 

[Der Alte]

The point being, Abrahams action ( his pisteuo ) spoke louder than words.
Of course there is only one way to know which Greek dictionary is the closest to the truth, and that's comparing them to having the real born again experience.

Which leads to people choosing dictionaries, lexicons etc. which support their assumptions/presuppositions. A person's personal experience has nothing to do with which lexicon, dictionary etc. is closest to the truth As I stated BDAG lists the historical evidence they consulted to determine the meaning of words. Neither Vine's not Strong's does that, they simply list an opinion. Look at a scholarly English dictionary, they list the etymology of words they don't just make up definitions or state unsupported opinions.

begin

<W2>That leaves two options.
One attack the messenger with name-calling, misrepresentation, and trickery. Or two attack the scholars and their understandings , such as Strongs,Vines,Thayers ,Brown , Briggs.
I appreciate you taking the low road and attacking the Greek scholars instead of me. But I hope you at least think about the evidence I've presented.<W2>

end

Which shows you don't know what you are talking about and make false accusations. I did not call anyone a name. I did not misrepresent anything or anyone. And I certainly did not use any trickery. I did not attack any Greek scholars! I addressed their personal, unsupported opinion. I have already addressed your "evidence." I appreciate you taking the low road and attacking me.

 

[Der Alte]

Nor, would I also add, are the English and Chinese words for faith identical to the Hebrew and Greek words for faith. Thus, it seems that no language really shares the same word for faith.

Irrelevant! An English word and a Chinese word were not be associated in the same post. Do you have anything relevant to add to the topic?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Our Salvation" is not" contingent on obedience. It's contingent on true saving Faith and faithing period.

What is true saving Faith?
A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

What do you mean by a life inspired by surrender? This seems like a fancy term for obedience.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hey bbbbbbb, hope you are well. Yeah, obviously the languages are different even as they are between the Hebrew and Greek but in the case of it being the scriptures its probably much easier to catch some sort of sameness spring boarding off some of the old when the same is used as an example in the new. Whether an example in the OT that is used in the NT or whether the OT is quoted in the NT (but written in another language). Regardless of the language being different between them (even as far as a word goes) I would still think that in most cases this would aid us in better understanding how they might be speaking the same.

For example,

Habakkuk 2:4, "the just shall live by his faith" ...and Romans 1:17... the just shall live by faith, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 11:38 Now the just shall live by faith...

Not sure about the same words in every place but it speaks of perfecting that which is lacking in their faith and James also about how faith (even in respects top Abraham's) itself is being made perfect there. Hebrews 11 showing how by faith folks moved like Noah in fear to build an Ark or Abraham when called to go out went, that sort of thing.

And also since faith works by love and we are being perfected in the same seems pretty much interconnected.

God richly bless you

Hey WherevertheWindblows. I am well and it is good to see you again.

I always find nitpicking scripture to support one's errors to be quite annoying. To deny the closeness of Hebrew and Greek concerning something as basic as faith is really nitpicking.

Thanks for your great post.

May God richly bless you in the new year.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Irrelevant! An English word and a Chinese word were not be associated in the same post. Do you have anything relevant to add to the topic?

Probably not, at least in your view. As I said in my previous post it appears to me that you are nitpicking in order to support a surprisingly weak argument. In any case, your assertion is really not very relevant to this topic, is it?

 

[Der Alte]

Probably not, at least in your view. As I said in my previous post it appears to me that you are nitpicking in order to support a surprisingly weak argument. In any case, your assertion is really not very relevant to this topic, is it?

My comment was quite relevant, the nuances of the Hebrew word translated "faith" are not the same as the Greek word translated "faith." There are some similarities but they are not exactly the same.

begin

<BB>Hey WherevertheWindblows. I am well and it is good to see you again.
I always find nitpicking scripture to support one's errors to be quite annoying. To deny the closeness of Hebrew and Greek concerning something as basic as faith is really nitpicking.
Thanks for your great post.
May God richly bless you in the new year.<BB>

end

That's one.
Christian members do not cause disruptions, nor do they personally attack other members or non-members out of anger and frustration.
Christian members are considerate and do not make another member's experience on this site miserable.
Members' Codes of Conduct | Christian Forums​

 

[bbbbbbb]

My comment was quite relevant, the nuances of the Hebrew word translated "faith" are not the same as the Greek word translated "faith." There are some similarities but they are not exactly the same.

And my point that no two languages have precisely exact meanings for words is equally relevant. Thus, we English-speakers will never grasp the precise meaning of "faith".

 

[Der Alte]

And my point that no two languages have precisely exact meanings for words is equally relevant. Thus, we English-speakers will never grasp the precise meaning of "faith".

Wrong again. The only words relevant to my discussion are Hebrew אֵמוּן and אֱמֻנָה and Greek πίστις.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Wrong again. The only words relevant to my discussion are Hebrew אֵמוּן and אֱמֻנָה and Greek πίστις.

Then why don't you start your own thread on them rather than derail this thread about sinless perfection?

 

[alv_c]

Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.

Yes, we can attain perfection, by receiving the airflow of God. Read this study http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/01/11/perfection-through-belief-in-yeshuah-by-the-airflow-of-god/ .

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yes, we can attain perfection, by receiving the airflow of God. Read this study Perfection Through Belief in Yeshuah by the Airflow of God | Wisdom of God .

The website you referenced is strongly non-trinitarian and, thus, outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity. Its theology is no better, or worse, than that of the Jehovah's Witnesses or of the Unitarian-Universalist Church.

 

[alv_c]

The website you referenced is strongly non-trinitarian and, thus, outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity. Its theology is no better, or worse, than that of the Jehovah's Witnesses or of the Unitarian-Universalist Church.

There were many that called sir Isaac Newton crazy and wrong for believing a truth that was contrary to what the majority believed was true. Perhaps it is you who is incorrect, and you are rejecting something that could actually be true, because you have shut your eyes and ears at listening to what someone else has to say and why they are saying it.

 

[LookuntoYeshua]

="Not me, post: 73522064, member: 407493"]
“united with Him in death” so one might walk in newness of life.[/QUOTE]
I read this most powerful post again, and experienced it anew as if I never read it! Awoke this morning, embracing a similar thought to the above quote.
Just wish to thank you for all you've written that has made Him and His death and mine more of a Reality than I've ever been priviledged to know and experience, until the present. Sometimes I find myself only able to say, "My God"! after reading Christ in your posts and replies. Although stunned, I know Who to thank and praise--

 

[Pepper77]

Jesus ends Mathew chapter 5 with:

"Be ye therfore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

The bible also called Job an "uprighy and perfect man" yet, I hear Christians all the time say we can not obtain perfection on Earth. Only Jesus did that or could ever do that.

But he tells us to be perfect. I know I have sinned thousands upon thousands of times before I was saved and since. It bothers me really bad but I have asked for forgiveness many times for the same sin. I inow once is enough but I still do it.

I know the bible also says "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" but I'd like to keep this after you accept Jesus and become saved.

So can we achieve perfection like Jesus said and Job? Or what does Jesus mean in chapter 5? This is a question I have thought about about many times.