Can Salvation be lost?

[A_Thinker]

Those verses don't make it instantaneous, salvation is spoken of in different ways throughout Scripture.

But ... those verses have to be true.

Also, ... John 6

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[A_Thinker]

According to Jesus not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven *Matthew 7:21 ...

For this passage to be a completely defensible argument for the loss of a believers salvation, ... it has to be ASSUMED that Jesus is speaking of "those who have believed".

But the passage does not make that clear. These could easily be pretenders, ... such as Jesus met often in His ministry.

Also, the work that the Father desires is identified by Jesus as "believing upon the One He has sent" in John 6

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-39 salvation can be lost if we choose to no longer believe and follow what Gods' Word says and continue in a life of known unrepentant sin. According to Jesus not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven *Matthew 7:21 and again "He that believes (present tense) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not (present tense) the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him." John 3:31. It is only those who believe to the end that are saved *Matthew 24:13.

Your response...

You’re almost right. You can violate the covenant and incur the cursings of the covenant. But that’s not the same thing as “losing” salvation. There’s no “losing” language in the covenant.

I am sorry I respectfully disagree as shown why in the scriptures from the post you are quoting from.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

For this passage to be a completely defensible argument for the loss of a believers salvation, ... it has to be ASSUMED that Jesus is speaking of "those who have believed".

But the passage does not make that clear. These could easily be pretenders, ... such as Jesus met often in His ministry.

Also, the work that the Father desires is identified by Jesus as "believing upon the One He has sent" in John 6

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

See Hebrews 6:4-8

 

[Danthemailman]

For this passage to be a completely defensible argument for the loss of a believers salvation, ... it has to be ASSUMED that Jesus is speaking of "those who have believed".

But the passage does not make that clear. These could easily be pretenders, ... such as Jesus met often in His ministry.

Also, the work that the Father desires is identified by Jesus as "believing upon the One He has sent" in John 6

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

Amen! In Matthew 7:22-23, we read that Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved.

*Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

We also see in John chapter 6 that not everyone who sets out to be a disciple of Jesus is a genuine believer. John 6:61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” 66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Certain people may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Amen! In Matthew 7:22-23, we read that Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved.

*Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

*John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

We also see in John chapter 6 that not everyone who sets out to be a disciple of Jesus is a genuine believer. John 6:61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” 66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Certain people may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

According to the scriptures those who do not know God are those who profess to know God and do not keep His commandments *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6, not doing the will of the father (Matthew 7:21). So if we profess to know God and do not keep His commandments we are not telling the truth and do not know God according to 1 John 2:3-4. As posted earlier those in Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:25-39 knew God but departed the faith to become unbelievers living in known unrepentant sin not being in a saved state before God. According to the scriptures Gods' salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says (always present tense).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

For this passage to be a completely defensible argument for the loss of a believers salvation, ... it has to be ASSUMED that Jesus is speaking of "those who have believed".

But the passage does not make that clear. These could easily be pretenders, ... such as Jesus met often in His ministry.

Also, the work that the Father desires is identified by Jesus as "believing upon the One He has sent" in John 6

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”

The scripture (Matthew 7:21) was not posted by itself and was only provided to show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says (always present tense). The scripture in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6 show that if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin we do not know God. According to the scriptures we can depart the faith at any time if we choose to and live a life of known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-39.

 

[Hammster]

Your response...

I am sorry I respectfully disagree as shown why in the scriptures from the post you are quoting from.

Your so-called evidence is scripture taken out of context. It’s not proper exegesis.

 

[A_Thinker]

See Hebrews 6:4-8

Regarding the passage you cite from Hebrews (which I've studied for some time) ... I agree that it raises the possibility of defection from God for a believer, ... but that such a defection is NOT a casual thing that happens, for instance, without one's understanding that that is the choice being made.

It would be more akin to Lucifer's defection from God ... rather than David's sinfulness regarding Uriah and Bathsheba.

So ... I wouldn't say that one can LOSE one's salvation, ... but that, perhaps, one can make a KNOWING defection ...

 

[A_Thinker]

Amen! In Matthew 7:22-23, we read that Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved.

Agreed ... that is the only way that statement works ...

 

[A_Thinker]

The scripture (Matthew 7:21) was not posted by itself and was only provided to show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says (always present tense). The scripture in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6 show that if we are living a life of known unrepentant sin we do not know God. According to the scriptures we can depart the faith at any time if we choose to and live a life of known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-39.

1 John also says that "If we (belivers) say that we have no sin, ... we LIE. "

Hebrews 6 doesn't talk about sin, but rather WILLING DEFECTION. And Hebrews 10 is speaking of animal sacrifices in verse 26.

Salvation isn't a matter of having NO SIN. The Old Testament teaches us that such is not possible ("There is NONE GOOD" ... Psalms 14).

Therefore the New Covenant doesn't depend upon NO SIN, ... but rather FORGIVEN SIN.

I would ask you a question. Surely from your study of Hebrews, it has been revealed to you that there are 2 Covenants spoken of, the Old/First Covenant... and the New/Second Covenant. Hebrews says that the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant, which is, in its words, "fading away".

My question is ... "What is your view on the DIFFERENCE between the 2 Covenants ?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Your so-called evidence is scripture taken out of context. It’s not proper exegesis.

Hebrews 6 doesn't talk about sin, but rather WILLING DEFECTION.

Not really these are only your words not God's Word. As posted earlier it is Gods' Word not mine that shows that salvation can be lost not mine and that salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says..

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEMSELVES AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY THEMSELVES THE SUN OF GOD AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHO'S END IS TO BE BURNED.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...
1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Exegesis provided above shows that Hebrews 4:6-8 is talking about those who were once enlightened believers that received Gods' Spirit and have tasted of the heavenly gift and the powers of the world to come that had fallen away back into unrepentant sins whos end is to receive Gods' judgements (to be bunred). Everything taken here is exegesis taken out of the scriptures verbatim. The same can be done for Hebrews 10:26-39. Let me know if you would like me to do the same for that as well? God's salvation of course is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says (present tense).

Take Care.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

1 John also says that "If we (belivers) say that we have no sin, ... we LIE. "

1 John 2:3-4
[1], MY LITTLE CHILDREN, THESE THINGS WRITE I TO YOU, THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], AND HEREBY WE DO KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
[4], HE THAT SAID, I KNOW HIM, AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

1 John 3:6-9
[6], WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWN HIM.
[7], Little children, let no man deceive you: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.
[8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; FOR HIS SEED REMAINS IN HIM: AND HE CANNOT SIN, BECAUSE HE IS BORN OF GOD.

Hebrews 6 doesn't talk about sin, but rather WILLING DEFECTION.

Hebrews 6:6
[6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEMSELVES AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY THEMSELVES THE SUN OF GOD AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME.

Salvation isn't a matter of having NO SIN. The Old Testament teaches us that such is not possible ("There is NONE GOOD" ... Psalms 14).

The good news (gospel) is that salvation is from sin not a license to continue in sin...

John 8:31-36
[31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, IF YOU CONTINUE IN MY WORD, THEN ARE YOU MY DISCIPLES INDEED;
[32], AND YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.
[33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
[34], Jesus answered them, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, WHOEVER COMMITS SIN IS THE SERVANT OF SIN.
[35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever.
[36], IF THE SON THEREFORE SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

John 3:3-7
[3], Jesus answered and said to him, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
[4], Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5], Jesus answered, TRULY, TRULY, I SAY TO YOU, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
[6], THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; AND THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.
[7], MARVEL NOT THAT I SAID TO YOU, YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN.

links to...

1 John 3:6-9
[6], WHOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM, NEITHER KNOWN HIM.
[7], LITTLE CHILDREN, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: HE THAT DOES RIGHTEOUSNESS IS RIGHTEOUS, EVEN AS HE IS RIGHTEOUS.
[8], HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9], WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10], IN THIS THE CHILDREN OF GOD ARE MANIFEST, AND THE CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL…

God's salvation is from sin not to continue practicing sin. This is the group that Jesus says at the second coming depart from my you who work iniquity I never knew you *Matthew 7:23.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Hebrews 10 is speaking of animal sacrifices in verse 26.

HEBREWS 10:26-31
[26], (1-2) FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER THAT WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
[27], (3) BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
[28], He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29], (4) OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT SUPPOSE YOU SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
[30], For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
[31], It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[32], But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great fight of afflictions;
[33], Partly, whilst you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst you became companions of them that were so used.
[34], For you had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that you have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
[35], (5) CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, which has great recompense of reward.
[36], (6) FOR YOU HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, THAT, AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE.
[37], For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. [38], Now the just shall live by faith:(7) BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...

(1). WE (BELIEVERS) can return back to a life of known unrepentant sin; HEBREWS 10:26
(2). WE (BELIEVERS) being those who have received a knowledge of the truth; HEBREWS 10:26
(3). WE (BELIEVERS) will receive the judgments of God if we continue in sin and reject Gods’ Word; HEBREWS 10:27
(4). WE (BELIEVERS) by returning back to known unrepentant sin after we receive a knowledge of the truth we count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace; HEBREWS 10:29
(5). WE (BELIEVERS) are warned not to CAST AWAY our confidence which has great reward; HEBREWS 10:35
(6). WE (BELIEVERS) receive God's promise after we do God's will; HEBREWS 10:36
(7). WE (BELIEVERS) are WARNED NOT TO DRAW BACK INTO UNBELIEF; HEBREWS 10:38

.................

All the above of course are Gods' Word which compliments what the writer of Hebrews has already written about believers departing the faith to return to a life of known unrepentant sin in Hebrews 6:4-8 as shown in post # 92 linked teaching us that a believer can receive a knowledge of the truth of Gods' Word and choose to reject it and depart the faith rejecting a knowledge or the truth of Gods' Word in order to live in a life of known unrepentant sin.

Take Care.

 

[Hammster]

Not really these are only your words not God's Word. As posted earlier it is Gods' Word not mine that shows that salvation can be lost not mine and that salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says..

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those (1) WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and (2) HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and (3) WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST, [5], And have (4) TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and (5) THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME, [6], (6) IF THEY (believers) (7) SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEMSELVES AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCIFY THEMSELVES THE SUN OF GOD AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; (8) WHO'S END IS TO BE BURNED.

The following are taken from the above scriptures...
1. They were once enlightened; HEBREWS 6:4
2. Having tasted of the Heavenly gift; HEBREWS 6:4
3. They were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; HEBREWS 6:4
4. Having tasted of the good Word of God; HEBREWS 6:5
5. Having tasted of the power of the world to come HEBREWS 6:5
6. THEY (BELIEVERS) FALL AWAY; HEBREWS 6:6
7. THEY (BELIEVERS) renew themselves to repentance; HEBREWS 6:6
8. THEY (BELIEVERS) by their sins crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame; HEBREWS 6:6

Exegesis provided above shows that Hebrews 4:6-8 is talking about those who were once enlightened believers that received Gods' Spirit and have tasted of the heavenly gift and the powers of the world to come that had fallen away back into unrepentant sins whos end is to receive Gods' judgements (to be bunred). Everything taken here is exegesis taken out of the scriptures verbatim. The same can be done for Hebrews 10:26-39. Let me know if you would like me to do the same for that as well? God's salvation of course is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says (present tense).

Take Care.

What’s the context? Who is it written to? Why was it written?

This is part of exegesis, and you ignore it quite often.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What’s the context? Who is it written to? Why was it written?

This is part of exegesis, and you ignore it quite often.

Nothing has been ignored and everything posted in post 92 linked is only exegesis from Hebrews 6:4-8. The audience of course is to believers (already shown in the linked post) and the warning is given to believers not to depart the faith or fall away from the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. Hebrews 6:1-3 does not effect the exegesis shown in the linked post above. So what is it then that you do not believe in the exegesis provided in the linked post and why (scripture please).

Take Care.

 

[A_Thinker]

Nothing has been ignored and everything posted in post 92 linked is only exegesis from Hebrews 6:4-8. The audience of course is to believers (already shown in the linked post) and the warning is given to believers not to depart the faith or fall away from the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. Hebrews 6:1-3 does not effect the exegesis shown in the linked post above. So what is it then that you do not believe in the exegesis provided in the linked post and why (scripture please).

Take Care.

Hebrews preaches the superiority of the New Covenant of Grace over the Old Covenant of Law. It is a warning to Hebrew believers not to fall back into looking to the practices of the Old Covenant (i.e. sacrifices, etc.) to save them.

For the truth is that only CHRIST saves anyone.

Tonight I teach Galatians, where Paul asks the Galatian believers whether, ... having nothing wherewith to obtain God's salvation, ... they believe that they will now retain God's salvation through their own works ...

Galatians 3

2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

 

[Fervent]

But ... those verses have to be true.

Also, ... John 6

37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Yes, but those verses aren't absolute and have to be understood as they would have been understood by the original audiences. There was no controversy about salvation being conditional upon continued faith, and no one would have even contemplated them being an absolute assurance of moment-in-time salvation. This only became problematic upon Luther and the reformers inserting a foreign concept from the legal system that developed in the 3rd-5th century into the idea of justification(the verdict in a court of law) rather than looking at it as the original audiences would have understood it(a king's declaration). Justification is not the whole of salvation, and even understanding justification alone as a moment-in-time verdict is an anachronistic insertion.

 

[A_Thinker]

Yes, but those verses aren't absolute and have to be understood as they would have been understood by the original audiences. There was no controversy about salvation being conditional upon continued faith, and no one would have even contemplated them being an absolute assurance of moment-in-time salvation. This only became problematic upon Luther and the reformers inserting a foreign concept from the legal system that developed in the 3rd-5th century into the idea of justification(the verdict in a court of law) rather than looking at it as the original audiences would have understood it(a king's declaration). Justification is not the whole of salvation, and even understanding justification alone as a moment-in-time verdict is an anachronistic insertion.

Salvific justification is rather obviously ... a king's decree.

Certainly we don't merit salvation ... and any godly court would pronounce us unworthy ...

 

[Fervent]

Salvific justification is rather obviously ... a king's decree.

Certainly we don't merit salvation ... and any godly court would pronounce us unworthy ...

Yes, but that king's decree comes with conditions. It is a guarantee upon successful completion, but it is not a get-out-of-jail free card. Which is why it being a decree, rather than a declaration of innocence in a court, is so important. Decree's of kings are subject to remission at the king's whim and cannot be held over a king.