Can Protestants be saved?

[MoNiCa4316]

I'm sorry I'm leaving this discussion because I don't think I can take it anymore. I didn't mean to hurt anyone, I just care too much about this topic I guess. Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

 

[kisstheson]

"I'm very sorry that you feel upset. I'm also very sorry about your family, that must have been horrible look sister do you know how I feel, I feel like all I have is Jesus too. And I've felt this way for years. I've struggled with depression, self harm, I've had a terrible childhood too and I have some emotional problems resulting from that. I'm not saying this to say "look at me poor monica", but rather to make my next point, which is - I never expected to be loved like God loves me, and this is all that really matters in my life. And the reason I feel so strongly about the Eucharist is because that is where He's physically present, I can go to Adoration and that's the ONLY place I've ever felt peace in my life. This is what I looked for all the time when I was a Protestant, I prayed for it, and I believe with all my heart that when I'll receive the Eucharist I'll be closest to Him that I can be here on earth. I'm not saying this to insult anyone. I'm saying it because it means a lot to me. I'm waiting for this every day. And I don't blame Protestants for not believing in it, but I do feel sad for them that they do not. Because I wish everyone did, since this is God's will.'

monica I'm hip to all this because now we are actually talking about Jesus and not so much the catholic church.

P.S. plaese try to understand that topic headings such as "can protestants be saved" or statements like "protestants don't have the fullnes of truth feel like my face is being rubbed in the dirt. To me Jesus is the fullness of truth and I hate when people tell me that's not good enough and I need him plus... I know why you believe what you believe. I understand. there's just some subjects that are hot button subjects to me. sorry I made you feel bad with my rant. We both have opions or devotions that we feel very passionate about. I am glad you find him in the Eucharist. I do also.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

it's all related to me though if I love the Church that's only because God made me love it..

 

[MoNiCa4316]

P.S. plaese try to understand that topic headings such as "can protestants be saved" or statements like "protestants don't have the fullnes of truth feel like my face is being rubbed in the dirt.

but mostly everyone here has said that yes they can be saved.. the thread was made by someone who just wanted to know the official position

To me Jesus is the fullness of truth and I hate when people tell me that's not good enough and I need him plus...

it's actually not what I've been saying.. what I've been saying is not that we need Jesus PLUS something else but that we can know God in a great way in the Eucharist and that's found in the Church, not outside it. So the Church leads us closer to God. To me, knowing Christ in the Eucharist is greater than what I had before, I didn't say this to be hurtful but just to explain how I see all this... I really can't deny what I feel God has shown me

I know why you believe what you believe. I understand. there's just some subjects that are hot button subjects to me. sorry I made you feel bad with my rant. We both have opions or devotions that we feel very passionate about. I am glad you find him in the Eucharist. I do also.

I'm sure God understands both of us.

 

[Debi1967]

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[Katholish]

Looking over this topic, one is overwhelmed with the different opinions being expressed. I am concerned, however, that we have been focusing on what we would like the Church's teaching to be instead of actually trying to understand what it is and why it is.

Extra Eccelsiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church there is no Salvation) is a de fide teaching of the Church. We are not free to disagree with this statement. It does, however, need to be understood properly according to how the Church understands it and in light of her other doctrines.

As we should all know, Original Sin deprived man of his original state of Sanctifying Grace (which is a participation in the very life of God). Without Sanctifying Grace, that is, without this participation, know one can attain the blessedness of Heaven. This makes sense does it not? If you do not participate in the life of God, you cannot be truly with Him.

Christ came to this world to Redeem man and once again offer him Salvation. Through His Passion and Death, He won for us the merit of eternal life, but that grace could not be forced upon us. The Free Will is an essential component in the process, because love cannot be forced.

Now, when Christ was still on earth, he established a Church which would be the means of dispensing His grace. He instituted Baptism through which men are made sons of God and heirs of Heaven and most importantly receive Sanctifying Grace. Without Baptism, there is no way to receive Sanctifying Grace, however, we need to keep in mind that while water Baptism is the ordinary means, it is also possible to be baptised by desire or blood, which I hope to discuss later.

Baptism was never meant to occur outside of the context of the Church, for water Baptism is just one of seven sacraments instituted by Christ to help us grow in holiness. It is hard enough to live a holy life with these supernatural aids, it is all the more difficult if someone does not have access to more than one or two. For instance, the Sacrament of Penance is needed to regain Sanctifying Grace if it has been lost in mortal sin, which in today's world seems so common it is hard to comprehend.

To approach the original question, can Protestants be saved? Yes. If their baptism was valid, they participate in Sanctifying Grace, and if they die in that state, they will go to Heaven just as a Catholic would. However, it is fair to say that Protestants have a more difficult time because they cannot avail themselves of other sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance. Furthermore, since it is objectively wrong to refuse membership in Christ's Church, if they ever became conscious of this (and there by culpbable for their refusal to join the Catholic Church) they commit mortal sin and lose their Sanctifying Grace.

Christ is the Good Shepard and everyone belongs to Him, but not all reside in His sheepfold. His sheepfold is the Church, the Catholic Church which has a visible head on earth acting as Christ's representative as shepherd of His flock.

 

[LogosRhema]

Based on the Bible, one must logically conclude that the Catholic Church is the only Church to fit the bill of being the Church referenced in Holy Writ; for no other sect complies with all the trappings of the Church as described in Holy Writ. I think that one would be hardpressed to ascertain that the Holy Catholic Church is not the Church of Scripture which Christ established. The more I examine Scripture, the more I see the Catholic Church within it and root in it.

I may not know everything about the Bible, but I know it well and in all of my many years of studying it. I've never come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is it and is the only one. Sorry I still cannot logically agree based on the same Bible! If anything, no offense, the first church with history is the EO... If anyone could claim such things it'd be our siblings from the EO. Lets not debate who or what. The Bible does not spell out any particular church.

 

[DD2008]

Protestants can be saved. We are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Luther was right and the Church of Rome agrees.

The quote below is from the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification by the Lutheran and the Roman Catholic Churches:

14.The Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church have together listened to the good news proclaimed in Holy Scripture. This common listening, together with the theological conversations of recent years, has led to a shared understanding of justification. This encompasses a consensus in the basic truths; the differing explications in particular statements are compatible with it.
15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works

Link: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

​

 

[Debi1967]

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another."72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body."73
1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood."74 By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light."75 Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.


1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity82 existing among all who through it are reborn."

 

[Gwendolyn]

Oh for heaven's sake, why are we debating the fact that Jesus founded ONE CHURCH and that there is ONE BODY of believers in our own forum? Of course people who aren't Catholic think that's a crock, if they actually understood the depth of the teaching they'd be Catholic. I'd rather stick with the traditional historical understanding of Christianity, rather than believe some modern mumbo-jumbo about how everyone is different and therefore it's okay to believe whatever you want because no one's ever going to agree.

Well, it would seem that everyone agreed for at least a thousand years. Then East and West split. And then everyone in the West agreed for another 500 years, until Luther got angry, and then thanks to him, now there are over 33,000 Protestant denominations who'd rather do their own thing.

Jesus didn't form fifty million churches or fifty million belief systems. He formed ONE Church, ONE faith, with ONE baptism.

Quit debating it, if you feel like debating about stuff like this take it to GT where you can all pat each other on the back for being "diverse" and "tolerant".

I absolutely despise the fact that fundamentals of the Catholic faith are being challenged in our own forum.

 

[Katholish]

It is wildly misleading to imply that the Catholic Church agrees with Martin Luther's position on Justification.

It is even worse to imply that this assumption indicates that this means that Protestants are saved by Faith alone.


The Decrees and Canons of the Council of Trent are still enforce.
Decree on Justification:

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

The vast majority of the Tridentine Decrees condemn propositions which Luther himself espoused.

 

[kisstheson]

regardless of our differences and the debates we sometimes have I love you all and wish you the love and peace of Christ.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Looking over this topic, one is overwhelmed with the different opinions being expressed. I am concerned, however, that we have been focusing on what we would like the Church's teaching to be instead of actually trying to understand what it is and why it is.

Extra Eccelsiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church there is no Salvation) is a de fide teaching of the Church. We are not free to disagree with this statement. It does, however, need to be understood properly according to how the Church understands it and in light of her other doctrines.

As we should all know, Original Sin deprived man of his original state of Sanctifying Grace (which is a participation in the very life of God). Without Sanctifying Grace, that is, without this participation, know one can attain the blessedness of Heaven. This makes sense does it not? If you do not participate in the life of God, you cannot be truly with Him.

Christ came to this world to Redeem man and once again offer him Salvation. Through His Passion and Death, He won for us the merit of eternal life, but that grace could not be forced upon us. The Free Will is an essential component in the process, because love cannot be forced.

Now, when Christ was still on earth, he established a Church which would be the means of dispensing His grace. He instituted Baptism through which men are made sons of God and heirs of Heaven and most importantly receive Sanctifying Grace. Without Baptism, there is no way to receive Sanctifying Grace, however, we need to keep in mind that while water Baptism is the ordinary means, it is also possible to be baptised by desire or blood, which I hope to discuss later.

Baptism was never meant to occur outside of the context of the Church, for water Baptism is just one of seven sacraments instituted by Christ to help us grow in holiness. It is hard enough to live a holy life with these supernatural aids, it is all the more difficult if someone does not have access to more than one or two. For instance, the Sacrament of Penance is needed to regain Sanctifying Grace if it has been lost in mortal sin, which in today's world seems so common it is hard to comprehend.

To approach the original question, can Protestants be saved? Yes. If their baptism was valid, they participate in Sanctifying Grace, and if they die in that state, they will go to Heaven just as a Catholic would. However, it is fair to say that Protestants have a more difficult time because they cannot avail themselves of other sacraments most especially the Holy Eucharist and the Sacrament of Penance. Furthermore, since it is objectively wrong to refuse membership in Christ's Church, if they ever became conscious of this (and there by culpbable for their refusal to join the Catholic Church) they commit mortal sin and lose their Sanctifying Grace.

Christ is the Good Shepard and everyone belongs to Him, but not all reside in His sheepfold. His sheepfold is the Church, the Catholic Church which has a visible head on earth acting as Christ's representative as shepherd of His flock.

you said it way better than me

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I may not know everything about the Bible, but I know it well and in all of my many years of studying it. I've never come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is it and is the only one. Sorry I still cannot logically agree based on the same Bible! If anything, no offense, the first church with history is the EO... If anyone could claim such things it'd be our siblings from the EO. Lets not debate who or what. The Bible does not spell out any particular church.

the early Church did believe in the Pope though (the EO do not) and there was only one Church.

(I do like the EOC too btw )

 

[Debi1967]

the early Church did believe in the Pope though (the EO do not) and there was only one Church.

It would be better to explainit this way, at one time the EO were not separated Brethren from us and we all worshipped as One Church Until the Great Schism .. So at one time they too believed even in the Popery and were subject to it ..

 

[MoNiCa4316]

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

in other words, faith without works is dead..

for anyone wondering.. the Catholic church teaches salvation by grace alone through *living* faith - ie: faith that includes works...faith lived out, for love of God... to us, when people say "faith alone" that implies a dead faith WITHOUT works - rather, BELIEF alone - intellectual opinion.. this can't save.. that's why the Council of Trent clarified this. It does NOT mean that we earn our salvation. Just so it's clear.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

It would be better to explainit this way, at one time the EO were not separated Brethren from us and we all worshipped as One Church Until the Great Schism .. So at one time they too believed even in the Popery and were subject to it ..

yup

 

[MoNiCa4316]

regardless of our differences and the debates we sometimes have I love you all and wish you the love and peace of Christ.

I love you too sis I'm sorry if I've said anything in this thread that caused you to stumble. I'm not the best at explaining Catholic theology.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Protestants can be saved. We are saved by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Luther was right and the Church of Rome agrees.

faith is one of the things by which we receive grace... Protestants don't have access to the other things.. so although yes they can indeed be saved, and although YES faith is necessary for salvation - we're given more 'tools' in the Church to help us persevere in this faith.. more ways of receiving sanctifying grace.. and because of this, Luther was not right, because he said that the Church is not important and that the Pope is not important and rejected some teachings..the recent statement about Luther was meant to heal some divisions and try to find a common ground, but Luther did disagree with the Church on many things. He added the word 'alone' to faith alone.. and that is sort of confusing cause faith is never alone..

 

[DD2008]

It is wildly misleading to imply that the Catholic Church agrees with Martin Luther's position on Justification.

It is even worse to imply that this assumption indicates that this means that Protestants are saved by Faith alone.


The Decrees and Canons of the Council of Trent are still enforce.
Decree on Justification:


The vast majority of the Tridentine Decrees condemn propositions which Luther himself espoused.

I don't see why it's misleading at all. They issued a joint declaration of doctrine. That's pretty clear. http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p..._31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html

It's on the Vatican website. It doesn't get more "Catholic" than that.