Can Protestants be saved?

[kisstheson]

You are free to think that, but God has the last say in my salvation, not any Church Catholic or Protestant. The Bible spells it out clearly in the terms of salvation and no where does it involve any particular church.

I respectfully and logically cannot agree based on the Bible.

You have a very good attitude.

see we believe the church includes protestants and catholics...simply ALL who confes Christ as Lord and Savior. We are orthodox in that we all agree with the apostles creed.

haven't we argued about this stuff for centuries?

Back to looking at Jesus before I pull my hair out. LOL!

 

[DD2008]

yes, but we're taught the faith by the Church and grace comes from Sacraments as well as faith.. do you see brother what I mean?

the reason Paul said we need faith is because no matter how many times we receive the Eucharist or go to confession it wont matter if we're atheists or don't trust God.

I see what you mean. I believe the Sacraments are a great thing and I wish everyone had access to them.

I think that we are given faith through grace. Jesus Christ paid the price for our sins and made justification possible for us through Him. We accept that by submitting to the will of God and accepting his free gift.

I do not believe that one has to find the Catholic Church to be saved. If they do find it I don't believe they have to accept it. To be saved. They have to accept Christ.

If someone is a Catholic and leaves they probably don't believe it is the true Church it doesn't mean they can't be saved. If someone leaves it while believing that it is the true Church then they are either malicious or foolish.

Personally, I prefer it, but I don't believe everything it says. I came here because it felt right and I agreed with most things more than the others. If it ever didn't feel right I would leave it because I will follow my conscience and what I believe are the proddings of the Spirit.

I simply believe that salvation comes through Jesus Christ and nothing else. So, my answer is yes protestants can be saved, so can anyone else who trusts in Jesus.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Lord have mercy on me, the sinner. Help me, O Lord to obey thy Holy Will always and forever; and to forever abide in thy charity, wisdom, truth, and grace. Amen.

 

[DD2008]

Lord have mercy on me, the sinner. Help me, O Lord to obey thy Holy Will always and forever; and to forever abide in thy charity, wisdom, truth, and grace. Amen.

Now That, I agree with.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Amy, DD, ..everyone.. (lol) see for me it's not about "what denomination you're part of". The reason I feel strongly about the Church is because it's ..something that's His, something He created.. and because in the Church we can receive His precious Body and Blood.. and frankly - very honestly here - the reformation does upset me because here we have some people who just decided to rebel against all that and lead unsuspecting people away from this Church. And how many people have missed out on these gifts from God because someone 500 years ago decided he didn't like the Pope.



it's not just a denomination to me..

and - as I said before - Protestants ARE part the Church, but - they are separated from pretty much everything it offers, because they don't recognize it. It's like having a Christmas present they never opened, and in many cases, rejected.

hope it makes sense where I'm coming from here.

if I love Jesus, I want to love what He loves.. and this the Church.. the Sacraments.. Mary.. etc. and if I see someone hating these things (I'm using hatred as an extreme example), I feel sad cause they're hating something that Christ loves! Do you see how it is all about Jesus too..

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Lord have mercy on me, the sinner. Help me, O Lord to obey thy Holy Will always and forever; and to forever abide in thy charity, wisdom, truth, and grace. Amen.

amen, Lord have mercy on me a sinner.

 

[DD2008]

Amy, DD, ..everyone.. (lol) see for me it's not about "what denomination you're part of". The reason I feel strongly about the Church is because it's ..something that's His, something He created.. and because in the Church we can receive His precious Body and Blood.. and frankly - very honestly here - the reformation does upset me because here we have some people who just decided to rebel against all that and lead unsuspecting people away from this Church. And how many people have missed out on these gifts from God because someone 500 years ago decided he didn't like the Pope.



it's not just a denomination to me..

and - as I said before - Protestants ARE part the Church, but - they are separated from pretty much everything it offers, because they don't recognize it. It's like having a Christmas present they never opened, and in many cases, rejected.

hope it makes sense where I'm coming from here.

if I love Jesus, I want to love what He loves.. and this the Church.. the Sacraments.. Mary.. etc. and if I see someone hating these things (I'm using hatred as an extreme example), I feel sad cause they're hating something that Christ loves! Do you see how it is all about Jesus too..

I see what you're saying. My name's David by the way

I wish everyone would accept the Church and all would join as one as well.

However, I think we have a different position on the Eucharist. I personally believe ( and I know people disagree because we've discussed it before) that the Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, and some Methodists actually do have the Eucharist the same as the Catholic Church.

I don't think anything you said would mean a protestant can't be saved so I don't see where we are in disagreement on the issue at hand.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I see what you're saying. My name's David by the way

I wish everyone would accept the Church and all would join as one as well.

I agree.

However, I think we have a different position on the Eucharist. I personally believe ( and I know people disagree because we've discussed it before) that the Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, and some Methodists actually do have the Eucharist the same as the Catholic Church.

oh oki - I actually forgot this! sorry..
I believe only the Catholics and the Orthodox have the Eucharist.

I don't think anything you said would mean a protestant can't be saved so I don't see where we are in disagreement on the issue at hand.

I agree that Protestants can be saved, IMO it would be unwise for any of them to use this as an excuse to not enter the Church If they feel lead to do so.

 

[DD2008]

I agree that Protestants can be saved, IMO it would be unwise for any of them to use this as an excuse to not enter the Church If they feel lead to do so.

Good enough. Protestants can be saved.

 

[amariselle]

I grew up going to a Lutheran church which is the church my dad's side of the family went to. My mom was raised Catholic, but after she married my dad she attended the Lutheran church as well.

So, on one side my grandparents were Catholic, on the other Lutheran. Growing up I thought more about denominations than I do now. The last few years I have felt that denomination is not what is important at all, and I do not think that any one certain denomination is the highest one to be obtained. While attending a Christian college for the past 2 1/2 years I have met many people from many different denominations, and I consider them all to be true Christians. Only God can see and judge their hearts and belief of course, but I no longer put emphasis on any one denomination and I don't describe myself as Lutheran anymore, I am a Christian who grew up attending a Lutheran church.

I know that different denominations have different perspectives on certain issues, but when I look at history, I see that digging into these and debating them often brings more discord and division more than anything else. I imagine the early disciples, before there were any denominations specified, and the fellowship then (although not perfect) maybe much less complicated by these many issues.

I truly believe that all four of my Grandparents, both Lutheran and Catholic were Christians, and that that is what matters. There is division all over this world, but I've often thought that letting issues with denominations get in the way to the extent that you feel you can say some will go be saved based on their church and others won't is one of the biggest weapons Satan can use. What better way to accomplish destruction of the Church than by having us fight amongst ourselves?

(I am not accusing anyone in particular, just sharing some general opinions)

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Amariselle, I agree that all who believe in Christ are Christians.

I'm thinking about one thing that you said, about how the devil wants us to fight among ourselves. I agree, he does. And God definitely does not. But is the solution to ignore our differences, or to come to a place where we're all of "one mind" as it says in Scripture? I've always thought it should be the former, but I'm rethinking that.. until we have this unity, we should be charitable to one another as brothers and sisters in Christ, but IMO we should work towards it.

cause see in the early Church, they didn't have denominations at all. They had one Church. Only one truth was taught. There were people who disagreed, and the Church assembled councils to discuss those particular issues and clarify them for the faithful.. and the wrong ideas those others taught were declared heresies. Examples are gnosticism, or that Christ has only one nature, etc.

Later on, the Schism between East and West happened.. but this was not in the early Church days, but way later. And denominations only started appearing after the Reformation: 1500s.

From this, I would have to say that it's not the idea of one true Church that is causing problems and divisions and fights among people.. what is causing those divisions is the fact that a while ago some people broke away from the Church and started their own denominations. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have all those denominations now....we wouldn't have all those disagreements...people would generally believe the same things, and all individual churches (parishes) would teach the same things as well.

I believe the way to unity is assembling this one Church again. Not merely ignoring differences. Because it matters if someone is believing a lie.. and if two people disagree, at least one of them believes a lie.

I know I'm not saying a very popular idea and I'm sorry if it doesn't sound very charitable, it's not my intent to alienate people... but it is what I honestly believe, so just wanted to share it.

I have many Protestant friends and I see them as Christians too, and I used to be Protestant myself and I know I loved God back then, and I believe non Catholics can be saved. In fact many of them are better followers of Christ than I am. But I also believe that the Catholic Church is the Church started by Christ, and in it is true unity.

God bless

 

[amariselle]

I agree that it doesn't solve anything to completely ignore some of the differences between denominations. However, I do not believe that every Christian in the world is ever going to belong to one single denomination, and even if that were to eventually be the case, there would be many Christians who died before that happened, and I don't think this would mean they were left unsaved or not believing the truth in it's entirety.

I don't think that being of "one mind" necessarily means being of one denomination. There will always be differences among people, and among Christians as well. I think that the division comes with deciding which of these differences are really important. Jesus is to be our focus, and since we are all very different people, I believe He doesn't speak to us all in the same way, and the plans He has for one person are not the plans He has for another.

I see great evidence of the Lord working in people from all different denominations, but even though we may be from different denominations, we are still one Church. What unites us is our belief in Jesus and His forgiving our sins, and accomplishing what we could not.

Many things that differ between denominations have long been debated, and undoubtedly will continue to be; but I know we don't have all the answers in this world. Sometimes we look too much at what separates us and not enough at what joins us together. There's not one of us that should think we can claim that we've gotten everything right, because we know we all still make mistakes and lack full knowledge of all God has planned.

Again, just some opinions

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Servant of Jesus, well see if you look at it linguistically, Jesus is calling Peter the rock and then saying that on the rock the Church will be built.. so He's saying: you're the rock and upon you I'll build my Church.

But, aside from how one might interpret the exclusivity of that statement by Jesus, is it not true that Luther built the protestant church on the same rock; the same foundation.

 

[Caedmon]

How would it be explain, say in theory, if someone came acrossed a Bible on their own with no bias' at all. They know nothing of the Bible. He reads it and learns about it. Becomes a Christian in the sense of the teachings of the Bible.

Then went into a society where CC resides and visits. Hearing his story, say he rejects CC and moves on elsewhere. Knowing he has read the Bible on his own and knows it inside and out, yet were to reject the CC... What would you think?

Just out of curiosity!

There's always a bias, always an interpretation, and there's always a teaching authority, even if that interpretation is your own, and you are your own teaching authority. Catholics accept the Church as their teaching authority. Of course, this doesn't mean that the person in your scenario won't go to Heaven.

 

[Caedmon]

You are free to think that, but God has the last say in my salvation, not any Church Catholic or Protestant. The Bible spells it out clearly in the terms of salvation and no where does it involve any particular church.

I respectfully and logically cannot agree based on the Bible.

Logos, it's true that the Church uses the phrase, "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus," but the explanation of this phrase that I've heard many times, and the explanation that I distribute freely to all inquirers, is that we know where the Church is, but we do not know where she is not. In other words, we have no right to condemn non-Catholics, whether explicitly or implicitly.

I personally believe that the Catholic Church holds the fullness of Truth, but that in no way means that non-Catholics go to Hell. I wish everyone was Catholic so they could experience the same spiritual nourishment that I receive in the Eucharist and the other Sacraments, but I think that religion is a personal decision, and I respect other people's freedom to worship as they see fit.

And for what it's worth, if you're doing your best to follow the teachings of Christ, I don't think you're in too much danger, just in my opinion. Just don't take it for granted. That's what'll put you in the fryer.

 

[kisstheson]

Amy, DD, ..everyone.. (lol) see for me it's not about "what denomination you're part of". The reason I feel strongly about the Church is because it's ..something that's His, something He created.. and because in the Church we can receive His precious Body and Blood.. and frankly - very honestly here - the reformation does upset me because here we have some people who just decided to rebel against all that and lead unsuspecting people away from this Church. And how many people have missed out on these gifts from God because someone 500 years ago decided he didn't like the Pope.



it's not just a denomination to me..

and - as I said before - Protestants ARE part the Church, but - they are separated from pretty much everything it offers, because they don't recognize it. It's like having a Christmas present they never opened, and in many cases, rejected.

hope it makes sense where I'm coming from here.

if I love Jesus, I want to love what He loves.. and this the Church.. the Sacraments.. Mary.. etc. and if I see someone hating these things (I'm using hatred as an extreme example), I feel sad cause they're hating something that Christ loves! Do you see how it is all about Jesus too..

I don't hate the Body and Blood. I believe in the Real Presence. It's some of the other doctrines I have a problem with. I see certain beliefs go directly against the Bible and you know what? This will always be the fight between prots and C's as it has been for centuries...who are the better Christians, whose alligned more closely to christ and on and on. This is what happens when we don't focus on the Lord such as I am doing right now.

It upsets you? It upsets me and as i always say it makes me so angry that people don't get this, get that those who are not catholic love Christ just as much as catholics do. Like I said, I can't for the life of me call mary my co-redemptrix. That's just one example.

I really don't care who thinks i'm damned or a lesser christian because I'm not RC. "lesser Christian" yes, because I'm not partaking of the precious gift of the Body and Blood I don't have the fulness. Yet I know c's that go to communion and don't even believe in half the doctrine. They practice birth control etc. so that makes them more of a christian? This is exactly why I can't commit fully to the catholic church. I know Jesus loves me, we are ALL part of His church. Jesus is enough for me. I've clung to Him since I was fourteen years old. he was all I had. My mom committed suicide, my dad was an alcholic. nobody is going to tell me I don't have the fulness of Christ. I will fight tooth and nail against such a ridiculous notion. It's not my fault if I can't accept every point of doctrine BECAUSE I can't in good conscience. This doesn't mean that I hate mary or the Body and the Blood.

can you tell I'm angry? You bet!

Now I've said too much.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I agree that it doesn't solve anything to completely ignore some of the differences between denominations. However, I do not believe that every Christian in the world is ever going to belong to one single denomination, and even if that were to eventually be the case, there would be many Christians who died before that happened, and I don't think this would mean they were left unsaved or not believing the truth in it's entirety.

I believe that maybe someday all Christians would be part of one Church again. maybe that is pretty optimistic of me.. well I don't know. However like I said before, I don't believe that Christians not in my church are damned to hell. Even if someone doesn't have the truth in all its entirety, they can still be saved, and - I do not have perfect understanding myself by any means. Whoever we are our hope is God's mercy. If we were saved by knowledge or understanding I wouldn't have a chance lol! I struggle so much with theology. My approach to God..the way I pray, the way I worship Him - is very simple and sometimes I wonder if I'm getting something wrong, but I trust that He knows our hearts and intentions.

I don't think that being of "one mind" necessarily means being of one denomination. There will always be differences among people, and among Christians as well. I think that the division comes with deciding which of these differences are really important. Jesus is to be our focus, and since we are all very different people, I believe He doesn't speak to us all in the same way, and the plans He has for one person are not the plans He has for another.

I see what you are saying, I think that really the way I approach the whole question is different..just the way I think.. hmm. Because I believe that visible unity is important as well as spiritual unity; it is a reflection of spiritual unity. I don't think there were doctrinal differences between Christians before the various denominations came along.. there were disputes among the Church leaders, like the bishops and such, but all the Christians were taught pretty much the same things. For this reason I do not see differences in doctrine as something natural or the way God intended it to be. We are indeed all different people and approach God in different ways, but some of the disagreements among Christians today are very significant.. not just minor details.. but things like how we are saved or how is the Bible to be interpreted or is Communion a symbol or actually Christ's Body and Blood. Some of these topics have great meaning to people. Focusing on Jesus would hopefully help us all be charitable to each other and treat each other with respect. But I do hope that someday in the future these differences would be resolved because IMO they hurt Christian unity and confuse many who are looking into Christianity.

I see great evidence of the Lord working in people from all different denominations, but even though we may be from different denominations, we are still one Church. What unites us is our belief in Jesus and His forgiving our sins, and accomplishing what we could not.

I agree that God can use anyone. I also agree that we're united by our common faith in Christ. But I disagree with the concept of an invisible Church, - I don't know if you read any of my other posts here, I'm basically saying that there are different 'stages' or 'levels' of being within the Church.. some are in perfect communion in it (Catholics), some are in imperfect communion (Orthodox), some are united by their faith in Christ and baptism (Protestants). Well this is what my own church teaches, so I am pretty much repeating that.

Many things that differ between denominations have long been debated, and undoubtedly will continue to be; but I know we don't have all the answers in this world. Sometimes we look too much at what separates us and not enough at what joins us together. There's not one of us that should think we can claim that we've gotten everything right, because we know we all still make mistakes and lack full knowledge of all God has planned.

Again, just some opinions

I agree that there is much that we do not know yet. And that is humbling. As a Catholic I am bound to believe that the Catholic Church does not teach error...yet of course it does not contain ALL of truth, this is only known to God and any of us only see "as through a glass darkly".

God bless

 

[MoNiCa4316]

But, aside from how one might interpret the exclusivity of that statement by Jesus, is it not true that Luther built the protestant church on the same rock; the same foundation.

No.. see Christ built the Church on Peter. Luther, a man, built a church on his personal understanding of Scripture.

I do not think the Church is a human made thing.. it consists of humans, but it was created by Christ. It is His Body.

 

[kisstheson]

I agree that it doesn't solve anything to completely ignore some of the differences between denominations. However, I do not believe that every Christian in the world is ever going to belong to one single denomination, and even if that were to eventually be the case, there would be many Christians who died before that happened, and I don't think this would mean they were left unsaved or not believing the truth in it's entirety.

I don't think that being of "one mind" necessarily means being of one denomination. There will always be differences among people, and among Christians as well. I think that the division comes with deciding which of these differences are really important. Jesus is to be our focus, and since we are all very different people, I believe He doesn't speak to us all in the same way, and the plans He has for one person are not the plans He has for another.

I see great evidence of the Lord working in people from all different denominations, but even though we may be from different denominations, we are still one Church. What unites us is our belief in Jesus and His forgiving our sins, and accomplishing what we could not.

Many things that differ between denominations have long been debated, and undoubtedly will continue to be; but I know we don't have all the answers in this world. Sometimes we look too much at what separates us and not enough at what joins us together. There's not one of us that should think we can claim that we've gotten everything right, because we know we all still make mistakes and lack full knowledge of all God has planned.

Again, just some opinions

Harrah! Bravo to a sister with a loving spirit...unlike me and my Irish temper,

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't hate the Body and Blood. I believe in the Real Presence.

I know I did not mean you in particular. But rather a hypothetical person.

It's some of the other doctrines I have a problem with. I see certain beliefs go directly against the Bible and you know what? This will always be the fight between prots and C's as it has been for centuries...who are the better Christians, whose alligned more closely to christ and on and on. This is what happens when we don't focus on the Lord such as I am doing right now.

I don't understand..

who asked if Catholics or Protestants are the better Christians or more aligned to Christ? Didn't I say in my other post that there are Protestants who are better Christians than me? I never talked about people, I talked about doctrines.

In fact......it is usually the Catholics who say that Protestants can be saved and know the Lord etc... some (evangelical) Protestants I've met, not all of course, but a number of them (like at GT), don't even consider us to be Christians and think we worship idols and that our prayers are meaningless rituals. The Catholics usually talk about Protestant doctrine though, not about Protestants themselves.

It upsets you? It upsets me and as i always say it makes me so angry that people don't get this, get that those who are not catholic love Christ just as much as catholics do. Like I said, I can't for the life of me call mary my co-redemptrix. That's just one example.

again, I don't understand at all... where did I say that non Catholics don't love Jesus.. did anyone say this at all?

I really don't care who thinks i'm damned or a lesser christian because I'm not RC.

who said you are damned or lesser Christian? didn't I actually say the opposite?

"lesser Christian" yes, because I'm not partaking of the precious gift of the Body and Blood I don't have the fulness.

firstly.. "lesser Christian" refers to how one practices their faith. I never told you in all my life that you practice your faith less than Catholics or love God less than Catholics. I hope you do realize that I've actually said something quite different.

Secondly, what I was actually referring to is fullness of faith. This is not related at all to personal devotion to Christ or "how much" of a Christian they are. A Christian is defined by their love for God. Fulness of faith refers to doctrine and truth. If I believe that the Catholic Church has the correct doctrine and truth, it logically follows that those outside of it do not.. but again, this doesn't make them "lesser Christians", rather it makes them people who are maybe missing out on a couple of things that are in the Church, such as the Sacraments.

I do believe the Eucharist is important. I can't deny this, or I would feel like I'm denying my Lord. He made it very clear how much He wants us to receive Him in Communion in John 6, even to the point of giving warnings. Personally, and - I'm not telling you to think this way but rather just giving my own opinion - if the Church taught something I consider heretical yet was the only one with the Eucharist, I'd still join it. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, oki. Obviously people have different perspectives. I understand that you don't agree with some Catholic doctrines and this is what is keeping you from coming back to the Church and to Communion. The only thing I can tell you there is to pray and seek God's will. There are many doctrines which I thought were heretical that I no longer consider so.

Yet I know c's that go to communion and don't even believe in half the doctrine. They practice birth control etc. so that makes them more of a christian? This is exactly why I can't commit fully to the catholic church.

because of others? why stop yourself from joining because of what some are doing? People are not perfect.. some of the people at my parish don't even genuflect when they enter but all we can do is pray for them and show them God's love..

I know Jesus loves me, we are ALL part of His church. Jesus is enough for me. I've clung to Him since I was fourteen years old. he was all I had. My mom committed suicide, my dad was an alcholic. nobody is going to tell me I don't have the fulness of Christ. I will fight tooth and nail against such a ridiculous notion. It's not my fault if I can't accept every point of doctrine BECAUSE I can't in good conscience. This doesn't mean that I hate mary or the Body and the Blood.

can you tell I'm angry? You bet!

Now I've said too much.

I'm very sorry that you feel upset. I'm also very sorry about your family, that must have been horrible look sister do you know how I feel, I feel like all I have is Jesus too. And I've felt this way for years. I've struggled with depression, self harm, I've had a terrible childhood too and I have some emotional problems resulting from that. (but I think your situation was worse, I don't know how I'd go on if that was me). I'm not saying this to say "look at me poor monica", but rather to make my next point, which is - I never expected to be loved like God loves me, and this is all that really matters in my life. And the reason I feel so strongly about the Eucharist is because that is where He's physically present, I can go to Adoration and that's the ONLY place I've ever felt peace in my life. This is what I looked for all the time when I was a Protestant, I prayed for it, and I believe with all my heart that when I'll receive the Eucharist I'll be closest to Him that I can be here on earth. I'm not saying this to insult anyone. I'm saying it because it means a lot to me. I'm waiting for this every day. And I don't blame Protestants for not believing in it, but I do feel sad for them that they do not. Because I wish everyone did, since this is God's will.