Can Protestants be saved?

[plainswolf]

Doubtful...


From the Syllabus of Errors: The following are condemened errors --

III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. -- Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. -- Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.



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[MoNiCa4316]

What a blessed way to look at this. I love my Catholic siblings in Christ, but I've studied the Catholic teachings, but in my heart it screams no!!! I've studied into without bias, but my heart continue to deny it. I'm not justifying myself over the CC or calling it wrong, I personally do not feel led in that direction. I do enjoy conversation with Catholics here on CF as they are typically more... Logically minded in their conversations rather than blind.

I am partially this man I speak of. I do not call myself "wise" in the word, but since I was 13 (even before then). I've studied the Bible. I have gone to church in between, but most of what I know, through our Savior, I have found on my own study time.

The man I referenced was a mirror of myself (for the most part)

And no I didn't go to a Universalism Denom ( I think thats what the other guy was saying). I go to a Nazarene Church, I don't suppose I'm Nazarene, I agree with most of the doctrine, but I go because its a very fruitful church thats close by. I like to consider myself Christian. I cringe when people ask me what denomination I hail from.

well brother, all I can is that I've been where you are.. I wasn't very biased when I first became a Christian (I came from agnosticism!) and in my heart I sincerely felt that Protestantism was true and Catholicism was false. My belief here was sincere, I didn't start out biased, and yet something about the RCC and the EOC felt very wrong to me.

However, now I am becoming Catholic.

Which leads me to conclude that either I was wrong before "in my heart" or I'm wrong now "in my heart".. and I believe I was wrong then because I think God showed me this year that the CC is true. I mean actively showed. It wasn't just me trying to find the truth, but God trying to get me to accept it when I really, really didn't want to that's why I believe it's from God, only He could have changed me.



God bless

 

[LogosRhema]

well brother, all I can is that I've been where you are.. I wasn't very biased when I first became a Christian (I came from agnosticism!) and in my heart I sincerely felt that Protestantism was true and Catholicism was false. My belief here was sincere, I didn't start out biased, and yet something about the RCC and the EOC felt very wrong to me.

However, now I am becoming Catholic.

Which leads me to conclude that either I was wrong before "in my heart" or I'm wrong now "in my heart".. and I believe I was wrong then because I think God showed me this year that the CC is true. I mean actively showed. It wasn't just me trying to find the truth, but God trying to get me to accept it when I really, really didn't want to that's why I believe it's from God, only He could have changed me.



God bless

If that day ever comes, EO would be where I'd lean more towards. (Yuck I know!!! ) I guess that all just depends on the Lord's leading. As long as we are both working for the bettering of God's kingdom, I see no wrong in either of our motives despite our differences!

 

[MoNiCa4316]

God always sees our intention.

I think the reason I felt like the CC was wrong before is because I just wasn't ready to accept it. God had to do a lot to make me ready actually. And then when that day came, and He told me something (Hint: Eucharist) - I was so upset I actually cried. LOL. That's how badly I didn't want to leave my Protestant church. So I think I was actually more resistant than many people, I'm surprised God still did something with me...haha

 

[plainswolf]

there is also a myriad of Pope's who have stated what I've relayed quite forcefully in Councils and sola.. the Council fo Florence come to mind - wow was that a specific proclamation!

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Not, if they refuse to investigate the claims of the Catholic Church being the One True Church of Christ, which she is---or ignoring that the she is. For if one rejects or refuses to enter into the One Holy Catholic Church prior to death; then one cannot inherit eternal life. (Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Explicit and Implicit Desire aside, here.)

As an emendation, here.
There is a difference between being "invincibly" or rather "inculpably" ignorant of the Catholic Faith and being "culpably" ignorant of it. Furthermore, even if one were "inculpable ignorant" of the Catholic Faith; that alone cannot save one, for "inculpable ignorance" is not what saves one; but rather the "implicit baptism of desire" coupled with a "perfect act of contrition" wherewith one must have in order to be saved. One cannot have an "imperfect contrition, for that would imply that one is repentful of one's sins only for fear of hell merely, but that in order to have "perfect contrition" a true repentance of sins" is required, in that, one must have true contrition because one has offended God, because one's sorry for having offended and because truly loves him; in addition to any contrition due to fear of going to Hell. Without the Holy Sacrament of Penance, withwhich one can acquire absolution in the Name of Christ through the ministry of a priest, or Bishop of the Holy Catholic Church, one then as a member of a Protestant Sectary or a Heathen cult is wont to find a true grace to implore Our Blessed Lord unto, for the grace of "perfect contrition" and thus acquire the light of Sanctyfing grace within one's soul and attain eternal life in Heaven with our Good Saviour. Our Lord Most High God shall thus judge us when we appear before his judgement seat with fear and trembling. Let us remember that we did his Will, Believed (had faith in him), and _(if possible, barring any culpabality on our own part) acquired the Sacrament of Baptism upon ourselves; for then he shall surely judge us rigoursly; and with his mercy. Let us then implore his mercy upon ourselves for God is Just.
Lord Have mercy upon us. Amen.


(sources:
see here for invincible and vincible ignorance--> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm

And here for "perfect contrition"---> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04337a.htm )

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Just another point.. I think sometimes people ask God questions expecting a straight answer, but - often He has to make us ready for the answer first. When I was a Protestant, I wondered a lot about things like Apostolic Succession or whether the Church is visible or invisible. So I did the logical thing and asked God. I didn't really hear any definite answer but I felt in my heart that the Protestants are right about this. So - I assumed that's the truth. Then, fast forward several months.. and it hits me: Apostolic Succession is true. And it was just obvious and sudden. And ever since then it's been obvious. So - I think our hearts really are deceitful above all things I asked God the answer and He indeed answered but it took a bit of time to prepare me.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Yes they can. It's in the CCC. I was saved & Christian before converting to the RCC. Being Catholic you are exposed to the fullness of Faith. Thats the difference in being Catholic Christian or protestant Christian.

What do you mean by the "fullness" of Faith? Faith is faith- you either have it or you don't. Black or white. Up or down.

Second point: nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say "Peter- first of all, we're going to call you St. Peter- and then, St. Peter- we're giving you an exclusive contract to manage Christianity."

 

[MoNiCa4316]

What do you mean by the "fullness" of Faith? Faith is faith- you either have it or you don't. Black or white. Up or down.

when we say fullness of Faith we don't mean fullness of belief. But rather that your faith includes everything that God wants it to include.

Second point: nowhere in the Bible did Jesus say "Peter- first of all, we're going to call you St. Peter- and then, St. Peter- we're giving you an exclusive contract to manage Christianity."

Actually, Jesus said - You are Peter (the rock) and upon this rock I will build my Church.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html

 

[DD2008]

Leaving out where he may go. Would this make you question your faith in the CC? Considering you got to know this man and he was truly wise in the word.

I question my faith in the CC everyday

The important thing is Christ. Have faith in Christ and trust in Him and do your best to follow where you believe the Spirit leads you. If you follow your conscience given that you do your best to learn about the Gospel and form it properly, you will be fine. Christ won't let you down.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Matthew 16:

17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

This conversation took place in Galilee near Capernaum- and here is a picture of Peter's first church. I don't believe this comment suggests any exclusivity- after all, there were 12 disciples, not just Peter; and no indication that Peter was the boss.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Doubtful...


From the Syllabus of Errors: The following are condemened errors --

III. INDIFFERENTISM, LATITUDINARIANISM

15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.

16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. -- Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.

17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. -- Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.



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God bless thee! I would like to thank you. It seems to much, that a few persons around here would be wont employ a "latitudinarian" view of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus". The Catholic Church is necessary for Salvation; this is something that one cannot deny. To sugercoat for one's itchy ears to be tickled, is a disservice to that person. For to make one feel "ok" within their Erroneous ways as if now, when realizes that they must investigate the Catholic Church and enjoin one's self unto her---that they'd be fine, because, they do not right now see the validity or truth of Catholic Faith, and thus would then cease to investigate her; here taking as a license the exceptions of invincible ignorance to one's self in regards to the Holy Catholic Faith, in a distortion of it, in order to make one's self feel better or to rationalize one's refusal to abjure their error and enjoin themselves unto the Holy Catholic Faith. They [any potential non-Catholic] would do this, erstwhile claiming "inculpable ignorance," whence now that their ignorance has been made culpable, they would then ignore what they've learn of the truth of the Catholic Church being the One Ark of Salvation, and go about saying unto themselves that as far as they know they "cannot see" that the Catholic Church is Christ's One True Church and thus would feel free to not join her or to reject her claims in regards to herself.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Servant of Jesus, well see if you look at it linguistically, Jesus is calling Peter the rock and then saying that on the rock the Church will be built.. so He's saying: you're the rock and upon you I'll build my Church. It's sort of a play on words here's more info:
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/pope_peter_rock.htm

whenever people were renamed in the Bible it was always for a good reason, think of Abraham.

 

[DD2008]

God bless thee! I would like to thank you. It seems to much, that somet persons here would be wont employ a "latitudinarian" view of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus". The Catholic Church is necessary for Salvation; this is something that one cannot deny. To sugercoat for one's itchy ears to be tickled, is a disservice to that person. For to make one feel "ok" within their Erroneous ways as if now, when realizes that they must investigate the Catholic Church and enjoin one's self unto her---that they'd be fine, because, they do not right now see the validity or truth of Catholic Faith, and thus would then cease to investigate her; here taking as a license the exceptions of invincible ignorance to one's self in regards to the Holy Catholic Faith, in a distortion of it, in order to make one's self feel better or to rationalize one's refusal to abjure their error and enjoin themselves unto the Holy Catholic Faith. They [any potential non-Catholic] would do this, erstwhile claiming "inculpable ignorance," whence now that their ignorance has been made culpable, they would then ignore what they've learn of the truth of the Catholic Church being the One Ark of Salvation, and go about saying unto themselves that as far as they know they "cannot see" that the Catholic Church is Christ's One True Church and thus would feel free to not join her or to reject her claims in regards to herself.

I disagree. All one needs for salvation is Christ.

The Catholic Church is a great place to worship God. Christ is necessary for salvation.

We are saved by Grace through faith.

 

[LogosRhema]

God bless thee! I would like to thank you. It seems to much, that somet persons here would be wont employ a "latitudinarian" view of "Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus". The Catholic Church is necessary for Salvation; this is something that one cannot deny. To sugercoat for one's itchy ears to be tickled, is a disservice to that person. For to make one feel "ok" within their Erroneous ways as if now, when realizes that they must investigate the Catholic Church and enjoin one's self unto her---that they'd be fine, because, they do not right now see the validity or truth of Catholic Faith, and thus would then cease to investigate her; here taking as a license the exceptions of invincible ignorance to one's self in regards to the Holy Catholic Faith, in a distortion of it, in order to make one's self feel better or to rationalize one's refusal to abjure their error and enjoin themselves unto the Holy Catholic Faith. They [any potential non-Catholic] would do this, erstwhile claiming "inculpable ignorance," whence now that their ignorance has been made culpable, they would then ignore what they've learn of the truth of the Catholic Church being the One Ark of Salvation, and go about saying unto themselves that as far as they know they "cannot see" that the Catholic Church is Christ's One True Church and thus would feel free to not join her or to reject her claims in regards to herself.

You are free to think that, but God has the last say in my salvation, not any Church Catholic or Protestant. The Bible spells it out clearly in the terms of salvation and no where does it involve any particular church.

I respectfully and logically cannot agree based on the Bible.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ; she cannot act apart from her head: which is Christ. We must have faith, do the will of the Lord, keep the Lord's commandments and be baptized in order to have salvation. Part of doing our Lord's will is enjoining one's self to his Mystical body: the One Holy Catholic Church, to refuse to do so, is to perish outside of the Ark of Salvation in the deluge of fire that awaits those who perish outside of her.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

We all agree that God is the one who saves.

hmm I think maybe what some people are missing here is that God chooses to act through His Church to give us grace. And it's grace that saves us.

When we go to Confession, our souls are made clean.
then, we receive Our Lord's own Body and Blood in the Eucharist - medicine of immortality.

the Church is more than an organization. It's a mystical body. It's connected to Christ.

When we receive the Eucharist, we become Christ's Body because we receive His Body into ourselves. This is our unity.

Those outside the Church miss out on these graces in the Sacraments..

 

[Virgil the Roman]

You are free to think that, but God has the last say in my salvation, not any Church Catholic or Protestant. The Bible spells it out clearly in the terms of salvation and no where does it involve any particular church.

I respectfully and logically cannot agree based on the Bible.

Based on the Bible, one must logically conclude that the Catholic Church is the only Church to fit the bill of being the Church referenced in Holy Writ; for no other sect complies with all the trappings of the Church as described in Holy Writ. I think that one would be hardpressed to ascertain that the Holy Catholic Church is not the Church of Scripture which Christ established. The more I examine Scripture, the more I see the Catholic Church within it and root in it.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I disagree. All one needs for salvation is Christ.

The Catholic Church is a great place to worship God. Christ is necessary for salvation.

We are saved by Grace through faith.

yes, but we're taught the faith by the Church and grace comes from Sacraments as well as faith.. do you see brother what I mean?

the reason Paul said we need faith is because no matter how many times we receive the Eucharist or go to confession it wont matter if we're atheists or don't trust God.

 

[kisstheson]

another one of those conversations that drives me batty.

Wars, bloodshed, all kinds of swell stuff has happened over such differences.

no matter what I'm keeping my eyes on Jesus, asking for His grace to love Him more and loving my bro and sisters no matter what denomination they are a part of.

I know 110% that I belong to Him and I will see Him in heaven. I expect to see you there to.

Have to admit that when people go on about all things catholic and seem to defend that more than Jesus I scratch my head. can we just talk about Christ? Do we have to bring the RCC into it?

I know...I know...you have your reasons.

Now I've gotten myself into trouble.

really...I love you all.