Can non-Orthodox make it to Heaven? Non-Christians?

[Call me Nic]

it was unified in faith and morals. simply because people struggled doesn't mean the Church wasn't one. we are not one in faith and doctrine, so either one or both of us is not in the Church, but we both cannot be

Hey if you want to admit you don't have faith in Jesus Christ to save you from your sins, that's on you, but just because you're a member of the Orthodox church doesn't make you any more saved than me, who strives to be faithful in Christ Jesus.

 

[Call me Nic]

well, that's you. you haven't given reason as to why you are correct, and you didn't really read what I read all that well.

You said the following, "as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa." That's obviously saying that those who are not Orthodox (those apart of the Orthodox church) are going to join the "true" church of Orthodox at their judgement. And I asked you to show me that in scripture, all you said was Romans 2 which doesn't even come close to supporting your statement. What didn't I read?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hey if you want to admit you don't have faith in Jesus Christ to save you from your sins, that's on you, but just because you're a member of the Orthodox church doesn't make you any more saved than me, who strives to be faithful in Christ Jesus.

well, I do believe Christ alone saves sins. and I agree with your second point totally, I said that to the OP.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You said the following, "as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa." That's obviously saying that those who are not Orthodox (those apart of the Orthodox church) are going to join the "true" church of Orthodox at their judgement. And I asked you to show me that in scripture, all you said was Romans 2 which doesn't even come close to supporting your statement. What didn't I read?

that is what Romans 2 says concerning the Gentiles who were out of the Church at the time. it actually only doesn't support what you said Romans 2 says. and of course the Bible doesn't use Orthodoxy. you gotta have heterodoxy to have Orthodoxy. so the name is only because bodies separated themselves from the Church.

 

[Call me Nic]

that is what Romans 2 says concerning the Gentiles who were out of the Church at the time. it actually only doesn't support what you said Romans 2 says. and of course the Bible doesn't use Orthodoxy. you gotta have heterodoxy to have Orthodoxy. so the same is only because bodies separated themselves from the Church.

That's getting into a whole new topic and discussion, so I'll agree to disagree on that one. Good talk, friend.

 

[ArmyMatt]

That's getting into a whole new topic and discussion, so I'll agree to disagree on that one. Good talk, friend.

indeed, if you wanna debate down the line, feel free in St Justin's on here. good talk.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I came too late to this one but I think there's a little bit of misunderstanding going on just because of the different ways we use words. It would be a good topic for St. Justin's sometime. This one takes some talking to get at all the meaning.

Peace to all.

 

[Hermit76]

random tip:
apart of a church - separated from any church
a part of a church - to be connected to a church

That is all.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa.

So someone could join the church after dying as a pagan?

 

[buzuxi02]

God can save whomever He pleases. But that is not our concern, as He has given us a duty to save people through the preaching of the gospel of salvation and to baptize those believers and add them to the portion being saved.

We dont say, 'heck lets cut some corners and bend a few rules. Our God is a forgiving God, so what if we take a sabbatical for a few hundred years Im sure God will still save the heathen as he will save us". If God wants to save everyone that is His business. Our business is to do what He told us, that is to preserve and teach the saving faith once delivered without addition or alteration and to pass it on to the next generation.
God never told us, "Dont worry guys I'll be saving people apart from you and apart from belief in my Son". He never said, 'I will send you another helper which is a group collectively called the protestants originating in western europe many many days from now". He never said go forth into all nations passing out bibles and whomever believes can start baptising each other.
If God is saving others through whatever means that is fine, but it is not the instructions that Jesus gave to us, we can only follow that which was strictly and exclusively given to us by the Lord Jesus which is to try to save every person in the world through the preaching of the one and same gospel and to administer the one baptism into His one, visible and only Body

 

[ArmyMatt]

So someone could join the church after dying as a pagan?

yes, it is possible according to St Mark of Ephesus to even be in hades after death, so that you are saved on Judgment Day.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

yes, it is possible according to St Mark of Ephesus to even be in hades after death, so that you are saved on Judgment Day.

How exactly are they saved? Are they given an opportunity to accept Christ?

 

[buzuxi02]

From the prayers of us christians. If you can find the third kneeling prayer of Pentecost, its an interesting and long prayer devoted mostly to those in Hades. Also read 2 Macabees 12:38-46

 

[ArmyMatt]

How exactly are they saved? Are they given an opportunity to accept Christ?

saved by God. some souls might need that to ultimately be saved. God knows what He is doing with us collectively and individually.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Romans 2



We do not judge the salvation of any person.

You will often hear - we know where the Church is. We do not know where it isn't.

We know what we offer and that the grace of God works through the means which He has given us - the things the Orthodox Church maintains and offers to people.

But we cannot restrict the grace of God. He alone decides what He will do, how His grace can work in addition to what He has given, on who He will have mercy.

We have no place judging others - especially those outside the Church.

Didn't the early Fathers state that there was NO salvation outside of the church?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Didn't the early Fathers state that there was NO salvation outside of the church?

yes, but that doesn't mean God is not at work in the lives of those outside her, to bring them into the Church even if after death. no salvation outside the Church, but only God knows when He calls people to that Church.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

yes, but that doesn't mean God is not at work in the lives of those outside her, to bring them into the Church even if after death. no salvation outside the Church, but only God knows when He calls people to that Church.

Isn't that the same as salvation though? Does 'salvation' mean saved in this life?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Isn't that the same as salvation though? Does 'salvation' mean saved in this life?

Christ is our salvation and while we are limited to labor now, He isn't.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Christ is our salvation and while we are limited to labor now, He isn't.

I still don't understand.
Are you saying that there is no salvation outside the church, but people can join the church after death?

 

[Hermit76]

I think you are thinking of salvation in terms of a legal standing before God. That protestant idea is alien to the gospel.