Can non-Orthodox make it to Heaven? Non-Christians?

[Jackson Cooper]

Is there something in the Orthodox tradition that even a pagan can make it to Heaven after they die?

I do like the Eastern Orthodox church, but I do not see why God wouldn't be able to save people outside of it. Orthodoxy is so unknown in much of the world, even though Jesus is heard of in almost all of it by now. There are many people that are not Orthodox, yet wish to serve Christ dearly. It is discomforting to think that 100% of them would go to Hell after the Judgement simply due to the fact that they didn't attend a church many of them had never even heard of.
I think Eastern Orthodoxy is the best way to get closer to God, but is it the only way?

 

[~Anastasia~]

Is there something in the Orthodox tradition that even a pagan can make it to Heaven after they die?

I do like the Eastern Orthodox church, but I do not see why God wouldn't be able to save people outside of it. Orthodoxy is so unknown in much of the world, even though Jesus is heard of in almost all of it by now. There are many people that are not Orthodox, yet wish to serve Christ dearly. It is discomforting to think that 100% of them would go to Hell after the Judgement simply due to the fact that they didn't attend a church many of them had never even heard of.
I think Eastern Orthodoxy is the best way to get closer to God, but is it the only way?

Romans 2



We do not judge the salvation of any person.

You will often hear - we know where the Church is. We do not know where it isn't.

We know what we offer and that the grace of God works through the means which He has given us - the things the Orthodox Church maintains and offers to people.

But we cannot restrict the grace of God. He alone decides what He will do, how His grace can work in addition to what He has given, on who He will have mercy.

We have no place judging others - especially those outside the Church.

 

[All4Christ]

Is there something in the Orthodox tradition that even a pagan can make it to Heaven after they die?

I do like the Eastern Orthodox church, but I do not see why God wouldn't be able to save people outside of it. Orthodoxy is so unknown in much of the world, even though Jesus is heard of in almost all of it by now. There are many people that are not Orthodox, yet wish to serve Christ dearly. It is discomforting to think that 100% of them would go to Hell after the Judgement simply due to the fact that they didn't attend a church many of them had never even heard of.
I think Eastern Orthodoxy is the best way to get closer to God, but is it the only way?

Certainly God is not limited to saving those who are Orthodox. I know that my family love and serve God daily, and they are not Orthodox. I believe that they will be saved. We shouldn’t judge those who aren’t Orthodox (or anyone for that matter) and we should trust that God is loving and merciful, and remember that He desires the salvation of all. He knows the heart of each person. That said - it doesn’t mean that we just pick the Church that suits our preferences. There is the fullness of the faith, and that cannot be ignored.

 

[Jackson Cooper]

Romans 2



We do not judge the salvation of any person.

You will often hear - we know where the Church is. We do not know where it isn't.

We know what we offer and that the grace of God works through the means which He has given us - the things the Orthodox Church maintains and offers to people.

But we cannot restrict the grace of God. He alone decides what He will do, how His grace can work in addition to what He has given, on who He will have mercy.

We have no place judging others - especially those outside the Church.

There are Orthodox priests and such that say that there is no salvation outside of the church. Are you saying they are wrong for making such a proclamation? How could they know?

 

[~Anastasia~]

There are Orthodox priests and such that say that there is no salvation outside of the church. Are you saying they are wrong for making such a proclamation? How could they know?

I think the first time that was said it was a time when only those who purposely separated themselves from the Church were outside of her. To REJECT the Church (especially when there was only the Church) ... would have been very serious.

But one thing I hear said now ... that they are all part of the Church when they face Christ (after they die). That makes sense too ... they would no longer be separated in any way.

At any rate - such things need to be understood in context. And secondly, I think there has been no Church-wide discussion of how we should speak on this now that the landscape of Christianity has changed.

 

[Call me Nic]

There are Orthodox priests and such that say that there is no salvation outside of the church. Are you saying they are wrong for making such a proclamation? How could they know?

If I'm not mistaken, the EOC uses a textus receptus Greek-based Bible. Notwithstanding, any Bible worth it's salt is going to say simply, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." It doesn't say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Church affiliation has no importance to God; faith in Christ is what is important, no matter what church you belong to.

 

[ArmyMatt]

If I'm not mistaken, the EOC uses a textus receptus Greek-based Bible. Notwithstanding, any Bible worth it's salt is going to say simply, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." It doesn't say, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Church affiliation has no importance to God; faith in Christ is what is important, no matter what church you belong to.

it also says one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism. and no Bible worth its salt says faith in Christ regardless of Church affiliation.

 

[ArmyMatt]

as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa.

 

[Call me Nic]

as to the OP, those outside the Church are not saved. however, for many their joining the Church will happen at death or on Judgment Day. this is why we don't limit what God can do. many who were not Orthodox in this life will be in the age to come, and vice versa.

Show me that in scripture.

 

[Call me Nic]

it also says one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism. and no Bible worth its salt says faith in Christ regardless of Church affiliation.

Show me in scripture where it says I have to be apart of a church in order to be saved, a portion of scripture that says that calling on the name of the Lord isn't good enough. Please and thank you.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Show me in scripture where it says I have to be apart of a church in order to be saved, a portion of scripture that says that calling on the name of the Lord isn't good enough. Please and thank you.

there was only one Church at the time. and the Bible says more about salvation than simply what you said. we aren't Biblical minimalists.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Show me that in scripture.

it has already been posted. it's in Romans. also, the NT says those who died in the Flood were preached to when Christ died.

 

[Call me Nic]

there was only one Church at the time. and the Bible says more about salvation than simply what you said. we aren't Biblical minimalists.

So your logic is that I have to be apart of the same exact church that existed at the time in order to be saved? Is the church going to save me? There are absolutely no scriptures in the bible whatsoever about saying you have to be apart of a certain church to be saved. And by the way, for your information, there were multiple churches "at the time." Like the church of Ephesus, the Church at Corinth, the Church of Laodicea, the Church at Philippi, Thessalonica, etc. They shared the same doctrine and belief, but were separate local churches with their own traits, strengths, and weaknesses. See Revelation 2 and 3.

We are all elect in Christ, yes, which is the SPIRITUAL church, but as far as a physical church goes, that's nonsense. The very fact that you're saying outside of "your" church there's no salvation places trust in the church itself and not the Lord, which is a doctrine of man. That thinking is no better than the thinking of a Pharisee.

 

[Call me Nic]

it has already been posted. it's in Romans. also, the NT says those who died in the Flood were preached to when Christ died.

You say, "in romans," but pull the scripture as to exactly what you're referencing so I can know for sure whether or not the scripture you're thinking of is even in context.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So your logic is that I have to be apart of the same exact church that existed at the time in order to be saved? Is the church going to save me? There are absolutely no scriptures in the bible whatsoever about saying you have to be apart of a certain church to be saved. And by the way, for your information, there were multiple churches "at the time." Like the church of Ephesus, the Church at Corinth, the Church of Laodicea, the Church at Philippi, Thessalonica, etc.

We are all elect in Christ, yes, which is the SPIRITUAL church, but as far as a physical church goes, that's nonsense. The very fact that you're saying outside of "your" church there's no salvation places trust in the church itself and not the Lord, which is a doctrine of man. That thinking is no better than the thinking of a Pharisee.

well, Christ only ever established one Church, and the various Churches in the cities were one in Faith. so they were all localities of the one Church. those cities still exist, as do their parishes as parts of the one Church.

and for your second, the Church is the Body of Christ. nowhere does the Church separated from the one communion established by Christ. and the accusation of being a Pharisee is false, because Christ says the same thing to the Samaritan woman that I am saying.

 

[ArmyMatt]

You say, "in romans," but pull the scripture as to exactly what you're referencing so I can know for sure whether or not the scripture you're thinking of is even in context.

it's already been referenced on this thread. but anyways, Romans 2.

 

[Call me Nic]

well, Christ only ever established one Church, and the various Churches in the cities were one in Faith. so they were all localities of the one Church. those cities still exist, as do their parishes as parts of the one Church.

and for your second, the Church is the Body of Christ. nowhere does the Church separated from the one communion established by Christ. and the accusation of being a Pharisee is false, because Christ says the same thing to the Samaritan woman that I am saying.

Yes, but I edited my comment to say that while they were indeed of one faith and doctrine, their works were not the same and had their own individual strengths and weaknesses which show the fallacy of a "unified" physical church. I agree with you on the statement of the body being the spiritual church of Christ, of which all who believe on the Lord Jesus are apart of, but if I never join the Orthodox Church doesn't even come close to meaning I'm not saved. I'm not saved by the Orthodox Church, I'm saved by Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I mean... it's really that simple. This is an argument of religion, not faith. Religion doesn't save. The just shall live by faith - not religion.

 

[Call me Nic]

it's already been referenced on this thread. but anyways, Romans 2.

In Romans 2, I notice a few things. It never mentions the word 'church' and it never mentions the word 'orthodox.' So how do you even come up with the notion that those who aren't apart of the Orthodox church are not saved? And by the way, the context is a thought continued from Romans 1, which is talking about the difference between the saved and the unsaved and how the law is not a bringer of righteousness, but is in fact written upon every man's heart whether they live under a physical law of God or not and they shall be judged by it; it's not about the churched and unchurched. Goodness, you have to interpret extra hard to come up with your conclusion when reading Romans 2.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, but I edited my comment to say that while they were indeed of one faith and doctrine, their works were not the same and had their own individual strengths and weaknesses which show the fallacy of a "unified" physical church. I agree with you on the statement of the body being the spiritual church of Christ, of which all who believe on the Lord Jesus are apart of, but if I never join the Orthodox Church doesn't even come close to meaning I'm not saved. I'm not saved by the Orthodox Church, I'm saved by Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I mean... it's really that simple. This is an argument of religion, not faith. Religion doesn't save. The just shall live by faith - not religion.

it was unified in faith and morals. simply because people struggled doesn't mean the Church wasn't one. we are not one in faith and doctrine, so either one or both of us is not in the Church, but we both cannot be

 

[ArmyMatt]

In Romans 2, I notice a few things. It never mentions the word 'church' and it never mentions the word 'orthodox.' So how do you even come up with the notion that those who aren't apart of the Orthodox church are not saved? And by the way, the context is a thought continued from Romans 1, which is talking about the difference between the saved and the unsaved and how the law is not a bringer of righteousness, but is in fact written upon every man's heart whether they live under a physical law of God or not and they shall be judged by it; it's not about the churched and unchurched. Goodness, you have to interpret extra hard to come up with your conclusion when reading Romans 2.

well, that's you. you haven't given reason as to why you are correct, and you didn't really read what I read all that well.