Calvinist Robots

[Evergreen48]

Adam is used as a name for the first man and for all mankind

it depends on the context

Who said?

 

[&Abel]

2 Esdras

[50] For many miseries will affect those who inhabit the world in the last times, because they have walked in great pride.
[51] But think of your own case, and inquire concerning the glory of those who are like yourself,
[52] because it is for you that paradise is opened, the tree of life is planted, the age to come is prepared, plenty is provided, a city is built, rest is appointed, goodness is established and wisdom perfected beforehand.
[53] The root of evil is sealed up from you, illness is banished from you, and death is hidden; hell has fled and corruption has been forgotten;
[54] sorrows have passed away, and in the end the treasure of immortality is made manifest.
[55] Therefore do not ask any more questions about the multitude of those who perish.
[56] For they also received freedom , but they despised the Most High, and were contemptuous of his law, and forsook his ways.
[57] Moreover they have even trampled upon his righteous ones,
[58] and said in their hearts that there is not God -- though knowing full well that they must die.
[59] For just as the things which I have predicted await you, so the thirst and torment which are prepared await them. For the Most High did not intend that men should be destroyed;
[60] but they themselves who were created have defiled the name of him who made them, and have been ungrateful to him who prepared life for them.
[61] Therefore my judgment is now drawing near

 

[PETE_]

Adam is used to refer to both the first man(father of Cain and Abel) as well as unregenate man as a whole

 

[&Abel]

45So also it is written, "The first (BN)MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL " The (BO)last Adam became a (BP)life-giving spirit.
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.
47The first man is (BQ)from the earth, (BR)earthy; the second man is from heaven.
48As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, (BS)so also are those who are heavenly.
49Just as we have (BT)borne the image of the earthy, [b]we (BU)will also bear the image of the heavenly.



the last Adam is Christ

 

[Evergreen48]

Adam is used to refer to both the first man(father of Cain and Abel) as well as unregenate man as a whole

Who said?

 

[A New Dawn]

thats my main problem with calvinism

it gives people an excuse to say " god made me a sinner so its his fault, I'm gonna hate him and sin and thats just how he made me"

I don't know anyone who is a Calvinist who says that. I do know people who aren't Calvinists who try to make people who are Calvinists say that. But that would just be putting words in people's mouths.

 

[&Abel]

I don't know anyone who is a Calvinist who says that. I do know people who aren't Calvinists who try to make people who are Calvinists say that. But that would just be putting words in people's mouths.

so then what does being a Calvinist even mean?

 

[Rick Otto]

I know a guy who knows a guy with 9 fingers who once had a job puttin' words into people's mouths.

 

[Rick Otto]

so then what does being a Calvinist even mean?

It means being a GT punching bag,... on a good night.

 

[&Abel]

what is the theological base for the label?

 

[Rick Otto]

Adhearance to the Canons of Dordt at least, IMHO.
That's all it took for me to be added to the list of "Usual Suspects".

 

[&Abel]

what is that exactly?

 

[A New Dawn]

so then what does being a Calvinist even mean?

It means that those who are saved recognize that without God, there is no life, there is no hope, there is no salvation because God, ALONE, can provide that. It means that we recognize that we are sinners by nature and that only God can effect the change that is necessary to recognize good and choose to follow Him, and that when He does effect that change, we will love, honor, glorify and obey Him because it is all we live for, and because we want to please Him. We love Him so much, we want for all the world to know it, and mourn when people refuse to hear His call. It means that God is first and foremost in our lives.

 

[Rick Otto]

Briefly, it is the "5 points" of Calvinism known in acronym as T.U.L.I.P.

[Here]

 

[&Abel]

I think all christian denominations would claim the same

I don't think he causes the recognition to good though

we all have access to the spirit and WE decide whether we follow that or not

god heals us, reassures us etc based on us following his spirit

its a relationship

 

[Tzaousios]

we are ALL natural sinners

I am creating new desires but I am still predisposed to sinful selfish behavior

Yes, but according to Augustine, Calvin, and Edwards (by way of their interpretations of Paul), the will of the unregenerate person is not just predisposed to sin, it can do nothing of positive spiritual value because it is locked into the sinful nature. It is not that it will choose to sin most of the time, it will choose to sin all of the time because that is its desire.

There is no approaching God for mercy, there is no accepting of Christ as Savior, there is not choosing to follow Him; the unregenerate person is a passive recipient of grace if he or she is of the elect.

 

[&Abel]

2 Esdras

[15] "I said before, and I say now, and will say it again: there are more who perish than those who will be saved,
[16] as a wave is greater than a drop of water."
[17] He answered me and said, "As is the field, so is the seed; and as are the flowers, so are the colors; and as is the work, so is the product; and as is the farmer, so is the threshing floor.
[18] For there was a time in this age when I was preparing for those who now exist, before the world was made for them to dwell in, and no one opposed me then, for no one existed;
[19] but now those who have been created in this world which is supplied both with an unfailing table and an inexhaustible pasture, have become corrupt in their ways.
[20] So I considered my world, and behold, it was lost, and my earth, and behold, it was in peril because of the devices of those who had come into it.
[21] And I saw and spared some with great difficulty, and saved for myself one grape out of a cluster, and one plant out of a great forest.
[22] So let the multitude perish which has been born in vain, but let my grape and my plant be saved, because with much labor I have perfected them.

 

[&Abel]

Yes, but according to Augustine, Calvin, and Edwards (by way of their interpretations of Paul), the will of the unregenerate person is not just predisposed to sin, it can do nothing of positive spiritual value because it is locked into the sinful nature. It is not that it will choose to sin most of the time, it will choose to sin all of the time because that is its desire.

There is no approaching God for mercy, there is no accepting of Christ as Savior, there is not choosing to follow Him; the unregenerate person is a passive recipient of grace if he or she is of the elect.

well that could very well be true

 

[A New Dawn]

I think all christian denominations would claim the same

I don't think so. When people start making the decision to go to heaven theirs, then it becomes a mutual effort rather than it being God's will and decision. Last I knew, Christ accomplished it all. There was nothing left for man to do. Man is too depraved to know what is good for him, let alone have the capacity to make things right.

I don't think he causes the recognition to good though

we all have access to the spirit and WE decide whether we follow that or not

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

That sure looks to me like there are none that understand or seek after God, and there are sure none that do good because we are all unprofitable. Without God's intervention, man would all go to hell because we couldn't recognize or choose to follow.

its a relationship

One that God initiates, yes.

 

[&Abel]

this is basically saying that we are all shut up under sin without christ

and ultimately without him we are SCREWED

but we still have to follow christ to receive the gift