Calvinist Robots

[MamaZ]

I have no issues with the scriptures whatsoever. I may very well have reflections of same that are different than yours.

So I ask again to you or any Calvinist: IS God UNwilling or UNable to save all mankind?

Never unable. For mans will is not more powerful than Gods will.. For God can change the will of a man as easily as He said let there be light. Is He unwilling? Must be since not all are saved.

 

[squint]

Never unable.[/quote

So God's able but UNwilling?

For mans will is not more powerful than Gods will.. For God can change the will of a man as easily as He said let there be light.

Is He unwilling? Must be since not all are saved.

1 Timothy 2:
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Might appear 'willing' to some.

 

[chestertonrules]

I've never said otherwise. Looks like you must be the one hearing voices.



At any rate, the last line reveals that he was an unbeliever all along.
He got in the job of a servant(believer) somehow, but he acted like the unbeliever he realy was & soended up with them.
No mystery. Just requires an attention span.

Absolutely not. He was a believer. Jesus was his master. He was placed WITH the unbelievers, he didn't become on of them.

He believed, but he didn't obey.

 

[chestertonrules]

Which point was that?

That belief without obedience will not save us.

We must CHOOSE to obey.

Obedience is a choice.

 

[TraderJack]

If some are predestined for heaven and some for hell, why do we even need the church, the Bible, to study, to try to be righteous?

Well.....because God says so.

Sounds like your fate is sealed no matter what you do

Don't confuse Election with fatalism for they are not the same.

What ever happened to "that whoever believes in me shall not perish but have everlasting life?"

Nothing happened to it.

The "whoseover believes" are the Elect who are regenerated to life by God the Holy Spirit so those who were once dead in trespasses and sins believe, follow, trust, love and obey God through the gift of faith in Christ.

Psalm 127:1
Unless the LORD builds the house,They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman stays awake in vain.

Ephesians 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

Ephesians 2

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Gotta love those who deny God's Sovereign Free Will to choose whomsover He wills.

 

[TraderJack]

That belief without obedience will not save us.

We must CHOOSE to obey.

Obedience is a choice.

Unless one is born again from above, they cannot choose to obey or believe, for they are dead to God, the enemy of God.

 

[TraderJack]

No. That is one of the reasons why the Calvinistic doctrine is so unlikely. On the one hand its tenants declare that we are robots

Wrong! Calvinism makes no such declaration whatsoever.

Unfortunately, you are repeating a caricature and misrepresentation.

I would suggest that you learn exactly what the Calvinist position truly is.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I think it would be fair that you learn what non-Calvinist postions are, before you demand it of others.

 

[MamaZ]

That belief without obedience will not save us.

We must CHOOSE to obey.

Obedience is a choice.

Obedience is simply putting off the Flesh and walking in the Spirit. Those who have Christ in them are the overcomers.

 

[MamaZ]

Never unable.[/quote

So God's able but UNwilling?



1 Timothy 2:
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Might appear 'willing' to some.

I read it as prefers. But not wills..

 

[A New Dawn]

I think it would be fair that you learn what non-Calvinist postions are, before you demand it of others.

We are not attacking another position. We are defending Calvinism. If someone wants to argue against Calvinism, they should know what they are arguing about, not make things up on the fly.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I was refering to one post only.

 

[Evergreen48]

More Questions :

What do you mean by 'Adam is man's representative to God'?

Because of one man, sin and death came to us all.

Was that 'one man' the same man as the man who is referred to in the following scriptures?

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make 'adam in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27. So God created 'adam in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed 'adam of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and 'adam became a living soul.

Genesis 2:8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the 'adam whom he had formed.

Genesis 2:15 And the Lord God took the 'adam, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Only those who believe what?

Only those that believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.

Then all before the Savior came are were not saved?

 

[squint]

Who are we to judge God?

Indeed. God could theorectically be vastly more Divinely Sovereign that you are able to give Him credit for.

All we know is that the scriptures indicate that some are not going ot be saved.

Depends on whether we are looking at the Word or your presumptions of same.

We believe the scriptures are inspired by God and are true.

Don't we all believe this?

We trust in God to know what is best. So His decisions are always the best possible decisions in every situation. God is infinite.

Great! Then in accordance with that fact, we might even see that God 'could theoretically BE' vastly Superior to what we see?

enjoy!

squint

 

[DD2008]

Indeed. God could theorectically be vastly more Divinely Sovereign that you are able to give Him credit for.

Great! Then in accordance with that fact, we might even see that God 'could theoretically BE' vastly Superior to what we see?

enjoy!

squint

Since we're finite and God is infinite we can be certain that God is vastley superior than what we are able to conceive. He is that which nothing greater than can be conceived.

So, as humans we have the scriptures that reveal what he has been pleased to reveal to us. In those scriptures are descriptions of individuals not being saved and being sent away to hell. So, all we can do is accept God as the soverign judge who is worthy to make such decisions and know that those decisions are good and just.

 

[squint]

Since we're finite and God is infinite we can be certain that God is vastley superior than what we are able to conceive. He is that which nothing greater than can be conceived.

No doubt.

So, as humans we have the scriptures that reveal what he has been pleased to reveal to us.

Which same varies because of the forementtioned fact.

In those scriptures are descriptions of individuals not being saved and being sent away to hell.

And that supposed fact can be viewed in ways that are not the same as how you see.

So, all we can do is accept God as the soverign judge who is worthy to make such decisions and know that those decisions are good and just.

Indeed. And that that supposed eventuality could be vastly different that what you determine.

 

[DD2008]

No doubt.



Which same varies because of the forementtioned fact.



And that supposed fact can be viewed in ways that are not the same as how you see.



Indeed. And that that supposed eventuality could be vastly different that what you determine.

1 Corinthians 2:9
[9] But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him,"

 

[squint]

1 Corinthians 2:9
[9] But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard,
nor the heart of man conceived,
what God has prepared for those who love him,"

Neither of us are going to disagree with scripture. Reflections of same are an entirely different matter.

 

[DD2008]

Neither of us are going to disagree with scripture. Reflections of same are an entirely different matter.

People can't disagree all the time. Reflection is a private matter and goes through many instances before it shines on conviction. Every man thinks differently. The Spirit will bring us to truth in His good time.

 

[Rick Otto]

Absolutely not. He was a believer. Jesus was his master. He was placed WITH the unbelievers, he didn't become on of them.

He believed, but he didn't obey.

No, he only fit the profile of a beliver just like those people in Matthew who "prophesied & cast out devils" & cried "Lord, Lord" but He said "I never knew ye".
He was like Judas. He didn't "get" the gospel even though he was one of The Twelve. Not all who are of Isreal are Israel is the way Paul put it.