Calvinist Robots

[squint]

Whose choice do you think it should be? It is called the 'kingdom of God' for a reason. It's not the 'kingdom of chestertonrules', or, likely, only you'd end up there. God's kingdom, God's rules, God chooses. No matter who's theology you choose, God has drawn some line in the sand and chooses. Why are you arguing so much against Calvinism when everyone else has the same issue?

And for the classic setup question...

IS God UNwilling or UNable to SAVE some?

Be careful how you answer...

 

[chestertonrules]

Whose choice do you think it should be? It is called the 'kingdom of God' for a reason. It's not the 'kingdom of chestertonrules', or, likely, only you'd end up there. God's kingdom, God's rules, God chooses. No matter who's theology you choose, God has drawn some line in the sand and chooses. Why are you arguing so much against Calvinism when everyone else has the same issue?

Because Calvinists turn God into a merciless monster who drew an arbitrary line in the sand with no regard for our actions while on earth.

Just drawing a random line somewhere and torturing one side while loving the other is not Godly.


The bible gives us very clear instructions. Some claim that these instructions are irrelevant.

 

[Rick Otto]

So then, you agree with this:



You believe God chooses some for eternal torture with no regard for their thought, words or actions on earth.

You claim he puts us into two piles. One to love, one to torture.

You claim that he does this for his own glory.

So then you agree with this:
You believe God allows people you say He loves to do things that will get them sent to hell, but if they accumulate enough good works, God will reward them with eternal life.
You believe He lets us sort ourselves out into two piles. One to love, one to torture.
You ignore or outright deny His willingness to show His longsuffering & wrath

 

[A New Dawn]

Uh, no, God chooses NOT to save some in Calvins world.



Alright, that's twice in this thread you've been caught playing it both ways.

I'm not playing anything both ways. God created Adam and Eve and gave them explicit instructions, which they chose to disobey knowing the consequences! It is their actions that put us on the path to hell. God did not help them along, except to give them freedom of choice. So how is this God's fault?

 

[chestertonrules]

So then you agree with this:
You believe God allows people you say He loves to do things that will get them sent to hell, but if they accumulate enough good works, God will reward them with eternal life.
You believe He lets us sort ourselves out into two piles. One to love, one to torture.
You ignore or outright deny His willingness to show His longsuffering & wrath

I believe God created us with the freedom to follow his will or to reject it. I believe God gives every person sufficient grace to enable them to follow his will.

Some, of their own volition, will reject the grace of God.

 

[A New Dawn]

The bible gives us very clear instructions. Some claim that these instructions are irrelevant.

I'm just really tired of this repeated lie. Show me where anyone said that the instructions in the Bible are irrelevant. Copy and paste every post that says we can ignore anything the Bible says.

 

[A New Dawn]

And for the classic setup question...

IS God UNwilling or UNable to SAVE some?

Be careful how you answer...

Why don't you take that question prayerfully to God, since you have an issue with what the Bible says.

 

[Rick Otto]

Because Calvinists turn God into a merciless monster who drew an arbitrary line in the sand with no regard for our actions while on earth.

Just drawing a random line somewhere and torturing one side while loving the other is not Godly.


The bible gives us very clear instructions. Some claim that these instructions are irrelevant.

Romans turning God into an effeminate schizophrenic who not only doesn't know what He created & pays for good works with salvation, He actualy accepts legal tender for time-off in pagan-imagined purgatory.
The bible is only clear to eyes of spirit.
When eyes of flesh start claiming clarity, somebody gets tied to a stake.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I'm just really tired of this repeated lie. Show me where anyone said that the instructions in the Bible are irrelevant. Copy and paste every post that says we can ignore anything the Bible says.

No one here I know of ignores what the Bible says, they just interpret it different ways

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her 42 saying "that if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid/ekrubh <2928> (5648) from thy eyes.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; I believe God created us with the freedom to follow his will or to reject it.

Then you deny the scriptures. (1Cor.2:14)

I believe God gives every person sufficient grace to enable them to follow his will.

That makes you a Pelagian. The RCC declared him a heretic.

Some, of their own volition, will reject the grace of God.

Predestintion doesn't deny that.
You don't understand what predestination is because you think you are equal to God in the sense that you have the power to redeem yourself by an act of your own will.

 

[A New Dawn]

No one here I know of ignores what the Bible says, they just interpret it different ways

Luke 19:41 And as He nears, beholding the City and He laments on Her 42 saying "that if thou-knew, and thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward Peace of thee, now yet it was Hid/ekrubh <2928> (5648) from thy eyes.

Interpreting it differently is one thing. Outright accusations of claiming the Bible is irrelevant is something different. It is an accusation that needs substantiation.

 

[chestertonrules]

I'm just really tired of this repeated lie. Show me where anyone said that the instructions in the Bible are irrelevant. Copy and paste every post that says we can ignore anything the Bible says.

I'll provide some scripture. You've already told me that you reject the words of some scripture because "WE KNOW" that it means something else.

You claim that our actions have no impact on our salvation. What does the bible say?


Matt 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.


Luke 9

23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Luke 12

42The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

 

[A New Dawn]

I'll provide some scripture. You've already told me that you reject the words of some scripture because "WE KNOW" that it means something else.

You claim that our actions have no impact on our salvation. What does the bible say?


Matt 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.


Luke 9

23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Luke 12

42The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

This is not proof of anything. Support your accusation or withdraw it.

 

[chestertonrules]

That makes you a Pelagian. The RCC declared him a heretic.

Pelagian denied the necessity of God's grace.

Predestintion doesn't deny that.
You don't understand what predestination is because you think you are equal to God in the sense that you have the power to redeem yourself by an act of your own will.

Yes it does. You don't like the teachings of Calvin closely examined.

Since Calvinists claim God withholds his grace from the non elect, then these people have no freedom of choice.

 

[Rick Otto]

You claim that our actions have no impact on our salvation.

They don't. They impact our rewards in heaven - the quality of, not the fact of, our salvation.
1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

What does the bible say?

 

[chestertonrules]

This is not proof of anything. Support your accusation or withdraw it.

I guess I'll have to lay it out for you:

Matt 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Calvinists claim that our actions while on earth have no bearing on our election.

Do you believe this? If you do, then you are directly contradicting this scripture. If not, then you disagree with Calvinist doctrine.

24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.

Luke 9

23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Do you believe that we will not be saved if we don't pick up our cross and follow Christ? Is this not "salvation by works"?

Luke 12

42The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45But suppose the servant says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time in coming,' and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. This is not proof of anything. Support your accusation or withdraw it.
__________________

Does this not demonstrate that being a believer is not sufficient?

Do you believe in salvation by faith alone?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

Rotherham) Jeremiah 9:25 Lo! days are coming, Declareth Yahweh,--When I will bring punishment upon every one circumcised, With him that is uncircumcised:

Philip 3:2 Beware of the dogs! beware of-the evil workers! beware of-the circumcision! [Psalm 22:16/Isaiah 56:11]

 

[chestertonrules]

They don't. They impact our rewards in heaven - the quality of, not the fact of, our salvation.
1Co 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

What does the bible say?

In purgatory. I agree.

This is related to a man who has followed God.

What of the man who does not?

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; Pelagian denied the necessity of God's grace.

So does your tradition of emphasis on works via the "co-operative salvation" doctrined defined in the canons from The Council of Trent.

Yes it does. You don't like the teachings of Calvin closely examined.

I like 'em fine because they are scriptural. You can't stand them because:
A. You can't understand them &
B. They show your belief structure to be riddled with corruption & your interpretive efforts toward scripture to be spastic.

Since Calvinists claim God withholds his grace from the non elect, then these people have no freedom of choice.

No one but God decides upon whom He will visit His mercy.
In the matter of salvation, man's will is subject to God's.
You just need to be mature enough to accept that.
It takes putting your ego aside on the most fundamental of levels.

You're not ready to do that.

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; In purgatory. I agree.

You're literalizing, again.

This is related to a man who has followed God.

No, it is as it says, related to "the natural man" - every human being in his natural-born state since Adam.

What of the man who does not?

The man who does not will likely give himself over to religious affections & feed his soul, enlarging it with religious information & posessions, immersing himself in the motions, stuff & junk, w/no real idea of what spirit is.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

This is why I said you are spastic.
This verse proves that your confession of Christianity isn't proof of your true belief.
Ro 9:6 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: