Calvinist Robots

[A New Dawn]

I guess I'll have to lay it out for you:

Matt 7


Calvinists claim that our actions while on earth have no bearing on our election.

Do you believe this? If you do, then you are directly contradicting this scripture. If not, then you disagree with Calvinist doctrine.



Do you believe that we will not be saved if we don't pick up our cross and follow Christ? Is this not "salvation by works"?



Does this not demonstrate that being a believer is not sufficient?

Do you believe in salvation by faith alone?

Your differing interpretation of the scriptures does not equal us calling the instructions in the Bible irrelevant! You need to go through the thread and copy posts where we have said that what the Bible says is irrelevant. (The multi-quote feature should work well for this. )

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is why I said you are spastic.
This verse proves that your confession of Christianity isn't proof of your true belief.
Ro 9:6 - Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Ahh yes. One of these days I am going to translate the book of Romans.

Romans 11:19 "Thou shall be declaring then 'are broken-off boughs that I may be in-pierced/grafted'
20 Ideally to the un-belief/faithless they are broken-off, thou yet to the Faith/Belief have stood. No being high minded, but be fearing.
21 For if the God of the according to nature, boughes, not He spares, neither of thee He shall be sparing".

 

[Rick Otto]

Ahh yes. One of these days I am going to translate the book of Romans.

Send me a CD!
(I'm listening to Miles Davis "so What?" from the lp Kinda Blue)

 

[chestertonrules]

It takes putting your ego aside on the most fundamental of levels quote]

That's funny.

You claim that God chose you from before time and you call me egotistical!

I am just like everyone else.

God loves me, but I must reciprocate if I am to remain in his love forever.

We accept or reject his grace, which is offered to ALL men, even you!

 

[chestertonrules]

Your differing interpretation of the scriptures does not equal us calling the instructions in the Bible irrelevant! You need to go through the thread and copy posts where we have said that what the Bible says is irrelevant. (The multi-quote feature should work well for this. )

You still didn't answer my question from earlier, which is relevant to this comment.

Do you believe this:

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not.


If you answer YES, then you are making the instructions of the bible irrelevant.

Here are just a few examples:

Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

John 6:53-54 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 15:1-6 "...Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he [the Father] takes away...Abide in me and I in you...I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit...If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 Peter 1

17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

 

[PETE_]

We claim that we are just like everyone else, but God chose us to be His only because of His Divine pleasure.

You claim to be just like everyone else but state that you were for some unexplained difference in yourself, able to return that love when others did not.

If God makes the difference, it's about Him

If you make the, it's about you.

 

[chestertonrules]

We claim that we are just like everyone else, but God chose us to be His only because of His Divine pleasure.

You claim to be just like everyone else but state that you were for some unexplained difference in yourself, able to return that love when others did not.

If God makes the difference, it's about Him

If you make the, it's about you.

I believe the bible. With God's grace, we can please him. He withholds his grace from no man.

Since we have been reunited to God through Christ, we can freely choose to seek him or to reject him.

He has given us what we need for salvation. ALL of us.


John 3:36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Matthew 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."


2 Timothy 2:12 "If we endure, we shall also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us".

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father."
John 15:4-6 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules;It takes putting your ego aside on the most fundamental of levels quote]

That's funny.

Not realy.

You claim that God chose you from before time and you call me egotistical!

Yes. You can say it yourself & you don't even hear the irony.
You hinge your salvation on a move your own will, thereby effectualy elevating it above God's, while I attribute all the glory to God.
It is obvious who is clinging to ego - who is in identity crisis.

I am just like everyone else.

LOL.

God loves me, but I must reciprocate if I am to remain in his love forever.

You are confusing the gift of His mercy with His heavenly rewards (again).

We accept or reject his grace, which is offered to ALL men, even you!

Lol, very generous of you.
...And of course that's true.
It is the merciful grace of His providence that allows rain to fall on the crops of the wicked as well as those of His elect.
But the saving grace of regeneratioon is reserved for those described in Eph1:4 whom He elected to place "in Christ" spiritualy, the way all humanity was "in Adam".
Not all who were in Adam were placed in Christ.

 

[chestertonrules]

You are confusing the gift of His mercy with His heavenly rewards (again).

You are confusing the voices in your head with the words of scripture.

We must respond to God's grace. You included!

Luke 12

45 "But suppose the servant(RICK OTTO, for example) says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time to come back.'(AND I'M ONE OF THE ELECT, ANYWAY) Suppose he begins to beat the other servants. Suppose he feeds himself. And suppose he drinks until he gets drunk. 46 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (NOT THAT RICK IS AN UNBELIEVER, HE IS JUST NOT A GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT. TOO BAD)

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; We must respond to God's grace. You included!

I've never said otherwise. Looks like you must be the one hearing voices.

Luke 12

45 "But suppose the servant(RICK OTTO, for example) says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time to come back.'(AND I'M ONE OF THE ELECT, ANYWAY) Suppose he begins to beat the other servants. Suppose he feeds himself. And suppose he drinks until he gets drunk. 46 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (NOT THAT RICK IS AN UNBELIEVER, HE IS JUST NOT A GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT. TOO BAD)

At any rate, the last line reveals that he was an unbeliever all along.
He got in the job of a servant(believer) somehow, but he acted like the unbeliever he realy was & soended up with them.
No mystery. Just requires an attention span.

 

[A New Dawn]

You still didn't answer my question from earlier, which is relevant to this comment.

Do you believe this:

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not.


If you answer YES, then you are making the instructions of the bible irrelevant.

Here are just a few examples:

Romans 2:6-7 "For He will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

John 6:53-54 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink His blood, you have no life in you; he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 15:1-6 "...Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he [the Father] takes away...Abide in me and I in you...I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit...If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers, and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned."

10"If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1 Peter 1

17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

What you seem to be forgetting is that faith produces good works. What you seem to be forgetting is that we love Christ because He first loved us. What you seem to be forgetting is that we are created in Him unto good works. Works and faith are the flip side of the same coin of salvation. If we have faith, we will have good works.

Now please produce your evidence that we have said that the instructions in the Bible are irrelevant.

 

[chestertonrules]

What you seem to be forgetting is that faith produces good works.

Even the demons believe.

What you seem to be forgetting is that we love Christ because He first loved us.

All of us, not just the "elect". Right?

What you seem to be forgetting is that we are created in Him unto good works. Works and faith are the flip side of the same coin of salvation. If we have faith, we will have good works.

If you don't follow Jesus, your faith will die.


Do you believe this:

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not.

??

 

[MamaZ]

You are confusing the voices in your head with the words of scripture.

We must respond to God's grace. You included!

Luke 12

45 "But suppose the servant(RICK OTTO, for example) says to himself, 'My master is taking a long time to come back.'(AND I'M ONE OF THE ELECT, ANYWAY) Suppose he begins to beat the other servants. Suppose he feeds himself. And suppose he drinks until he gets drunk. 46 46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. (NOT THAT RICK IS AN UNBELIEVER, HE IS JUST NOT A GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT. TOO BAD)

Being rude and condenscendent to another on here is not to be. Please refrain from personal insults. We can debate with out the insults. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[A New Dawn]

Even the demons believe.




All of us, not just the "elect". Right?



If you don't follow Jesus, your faith will die.


Do you believe this:

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not.

??

If you are going to answer with stupid cliches and things I've already spoken to, I'm fine with not talking with you anymore.

 

[chestertonrules]

Being rude and condenscendent to another on here is not to be. Please refrain from personal insults. We can debate with out the insults. Wouldn't you agree?

Rick understands. He can take it and dish it out.

I don't find it rude, anyway, and I doubt Rick does. I'm sure he'll develop an appropriate response, or... he could be on his way to confession as we speak!

Feel free to refute my point if you can.

 

[chestertonrules]

If you are going to answer with stupid cliches and things I've already spoken to, I'm fine with not talking with you anymore.

I've asked you the same question several times.


It is not a stupid cliche. I looked up the definition of Unconditional Election from Calvinist Corner.

Do you agree with it or not?

Unconditional Election:
God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not.

??

 

[squint]

I'm not playing anything both ways. God created Adam and Eve and gave them explicit instructions, which they chose to disobey knowing the consequences!

And again that is only how 'you' are led to see that event. To me it's much more interesting than just blaming Adam and Eve.

It is their actions that put us on the path to hell. God did not help them along, except to give them freedom of choice. So how is this God's fault?

Adam and Eve had NO CHOICE about this happening to them and not one single bit of their own freewill would have STOPPED this from transpiring:

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Adam and Eve had no say so in what the DEVIL does NOR does their WILL alter the DEVIL'S will.

The devil does what the devil does.

enjoy!

squint

 

[squint]

Why don't you take that question prayerfully to God, since you have an issue with what the Bible says.

I have no issues with the scriptures whatsoever. I may very well have reflections of same that are different than yours.

So I ask again to you or any Calvinist: IS God UNwilling or UNable to save all mankind?

 

[DD2008]

I have no issues with the scriptures whatsoever. I may very well have reflections of same that are different than yours.

So I ask again to you or any Calvinist: IS God UNwilling or UNable to save all mankind?

Who are we to judge God? All we know is that the scriptures indicate that some are not going ot be saved. We believe the scriptures are inspired by God and are true.

We trust in God to know what is best. So His decisions are always the best possible decisions in every situation. God is infinite.

 

[MamaZ]

Rick understands. He can take it and dish it out.

I don't find it rude, anyway, and I doubt Rick does. I'm sure he'll develop an appropriate response, or... he could be on his way to confession as we speak!

Feel free to refute my point if you can.

Which point was that?