Calvinism, explained.

[ToBeLoved]

The reason they fight for the faith, is they 'were born of God'

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is talking about being born-again spiritually. Not of blood or flesh, which is when we were born of our mother.

Being born-again spiritually is our being born into and adopted into the family of God. Which is stated in the verse 'He gave the right to become children of God'.

Not anything like your synopsis.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Can you quote the scripture that supports that?

Listen to what Joseph says regarding the sin his brothers committed against him.

Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."

Now listen to what Peter says about the greatest sin man has ever achieved: The crucifixion of our Lord!

Acts 4:27-28
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

You can only sin because of Him? Where in the world does God say to sin? Do I need to remind of all the passages which state the opposite?

If you freely choose to sin, then yes, your will reigns over God's will.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John says the one who commits sin is of the devil. Jesus was manifested to destroy the devil's works, not that you can sin because He allows it.

God does not command sin: He allows it for His purposes. There is a huge difference.

 

[EmSw]

In your view, salvation is largely dependent on the one being saved, not the one doing the saving. So yes, you are hinting at being saved all of your own power and will, because ultimately God's power and will doesn't matter--YOU decide, not Him.

Why do you and ToBeLoved keep slandering me as if I did not believe the Bible and Christ's Word with all my soul? Have I once doubted your faith in the Lord? No, we are discussing theology. Don't be a hypocrite and call Calvinists unloving when you yourself are not being very gracious.

I have heard all your statements from many Calvinists before. If you can't disprove Jesus' words about striving and laboring to enter the narrow gate to be saved, then you go after one's beliefs. Then you play the role of the victim. I am sure you will be leaving soon, as this is the mode of operation for Calvinists.

We have not doubted your faith in the Lord. I am sure you entrenched in your faith. If we are discussing theology, then let's stick to striving and laboring to enter the narrow gate to be saved.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Listen to what Joseph says regarding the sin his brothers committed against him.

Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."

Now listen to what Peter says about the greatest sin man has ever achieved: The crucifixion of our Lord!

Acts 4:27-28
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

Of course God uses His saints that His will is done by them.

But we are talking specifically about salvation. Does one have free-will to come to Christ in faith as the Word of God calls for, or is one unable to come to God unless they are resgenerated by the Holy Spirit first in which they have no choice but to come?

We need to stay on topic and not swerve off, although once we are finished with how we come to salvation Iwill be more than happy to dicuss it later.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

I have heard all your statements from many Calvinists before. If you can't disprove Jesus' words about striving and laboring to enter the narrow gate to be saved, then you go after one's beliefs. Then you play the role of the victim. I am sure you will be leaving soon, as this is the mode of operation for Calvinists.

We have not doubted your faith in the Lord. I am sure you entrenched in your faith. If we are discussing theology, then let's stick to striving and laboring to enter the narrow gate to be saved.

I already gave you my answer: You think the striving and laboring is all of your own power, when it is God who works in us.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

[EmSw]

Listen to what Joseph says regarding the sin his brothers committed against him.

Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive."

Now listen to what Peter says about the greatest sin man has ever achieved: The crucifixion of our Lord!

Acts 4:27-28
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

None of this speaks of predestination to be saved, but to carry out a specific result. Again, this does not excuse anyone for sinning. God's will is for us not to sin. If one freely chooses to sin, then his will reigns over God's will.

 

[ToBeLoved]

These are all the verses in post 899 that show that God wants ALL to come to Him in faith.

Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Isaiah 55:1-13
“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. ... Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant

John 5:40
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”



There are more if you would like them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I already gave you my answer: You think the striving and laboring is all of your own power, when it is God who works in us.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

After salvation.

After salvation we have the mind of Christ, God's Word written on our hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is those things GIVEN to us by Jesus DURING salvation that allow us to not strive on our own power after we have salvation.

What is the context of the verse? Before salvation or after salvation?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Of course God uses His saints that His will is done by them.

But we are talking specifically about salvation. Does one have free-will to come to Christ in faith as the Word of God calls for, or is one unable to come to God unless they are resgenerated by the Holy Spirit first in which they have no choice but to come?

We need to stay on topic and not swerve off, although once we are finished with how we come to salvation Iwill be more than happy to dicuss it later.

The Bible nowhere says one has the power in and of themselves to have faith. It simply states the truth that whoever believes is saved. It doesn't say that the whoever uses their free will to believe something their fleshly nature hates. You need the Holy Spirit to believe.

1 Corinthians 1:27-31
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

You assume free will when the Bible does not.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

After salvation.

After salvation we have the mind of Christ, God's Word written on our hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit. It is those things GIVEN to us by Jesus DURING salvation that allow us to not strive on our own power after we have salvation.

What is the context of the verse? Before salvation or after salvation?

So you believe then that God is not at work in a person when they believe? They were without the Spirit yet decided to believe?

Romans 3:11
There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;

 

[ToBeLoved]

The Bible nowhere says one has the power in and of themselves to have faith. It simply states the truth that whoever believes is saved. It doesn't say that the whoever uses their free will to believe something their fleshly nature hates. You need the Holy Spirit to believe.

1 Corinthians 1:27-31
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

You assume free will when the Bible does not.

This is not about salvation exactly but about grace.

God the Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ to the earth. the verse "by His doing you are in Jesus Christ" is about the Father who sent His Son. So that we do not boast because grace is a gift from God.

Yours is an incorrect interpretation.

I will give you a really good resource for understanding scripture in its context. Do you want it?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

These are all the verses in post 899 that show that God wants ALL to come to Him in faith.

Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Isaiah 55:1-13
“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. ... Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant

John 5:40
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”



There are more if you would like them.

I've addressed this post already... If you have a specific verse you want me to deal with then point it out please. I gave a few explanations in my previous post.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So you believe then that God is not at work in a person when they believe? They were without the Spirit yet decided to believe?

Romans 3:11
There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God;

We are without the Holy Spirit until after we have been brought to salvation by Jesus Christ. Then Jesus Christ asks the Father to send the Holy Spirit to His Children.

yup.

 

[tulipbee]

Your boasting of your filthiness and worthlessness.

But above angels

 

[ToBeLoved]

I've addressed this post already... If you have a specific verse you want me to deal with then point it out please. I gave a few explanations in my previous post.

Can you address this one?

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[tulipbee]

God does not command sin: He allows it for His purposes. There is a huge difference.

Allow is the same as arranging circumstances

 

[ToBeLoved]

Allow is the same as arranging circumstances

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Can you address this one?

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Did you miss post #948? I dealt with this briefly.

You keep hammering me about context but you don't read the context of this verse.

1 Timothy 2:1-2
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.

Does the context suggest that "all" means every single person without exception? Or does it suggest all kinds of men, even kings and rulers? If it does mean all without exception, are you praying for every soul that ever lived?

 

[tulipbee]

Pride goes before a fall.

Recognising reality isn't pride.
Pay attention !