Calvinism and its Secret Universalism

[John Mullally]

God does the heart work of regeneration which is why they asked, "what shall we do?" It wasn't a freewill decisional regeneration but God doing the work.

Peter is appealing to the sensibilities of the people in the crowd. Yet you say that the will of the people in the crowd was not involved. You have gotten out beyond the Bible.

 

[Hammster]

Peter is appealing to the sensibilities of the people in the crowd. Yet you say that the will of the people in the crowd was not involved. You have gotten out beyond the Bible.

That’s interring. Based on this, you make it sound as if people can be argued into the kingdom.

 

[John Mullally]

That’s interring. Based on this, you make it sound as if people can be argued into the kingdom.

The Bible is loaded with directives - did you miss that somehow?

 

[BNR32FAN]

P1) God Loves All and desires all to be saved
P2) God Isn't halfway
P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others
P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved
P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially.
Conclusion: Calvinism is Universalism because God loves all creation and he isn't partially and he can give his unconditional grace to all creation because he loves all his creation equally.
So No nobody disagrees with the sovereignty of God, we disagree with John Calvin's core doctrine. Sorry to say but John Calvinism soft determinism fails according to my premises and conclusions, any rebuttals would be fallacious because P1 and P3 goes together do you agree?
I believe Calvinism fails because these prepositions came to light if any Calvinist has an explanation from my argument; I would love to see it and note: I agree with all scriptures that you believe proves it. I will address those verses after you address my argument against the belief.

It’s been my experience that most Calvinists reject the idea that God loves everyone and that God is impartial.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible is loaded with directives - did you miss that somehow?

That didn’t address the post. So let me be clearer. Do you think someone can be convinced to believe the gospel by using a well-crafted argument?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Are you insinuating I cant prove my premises OK I will prove each premise right now with scripture.
P1)God Loves All and desires all to be saved 1 John 4:7-8, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16, and 1 Timothy 2:4
P2) God Isn't halfway Romans 2:11 and Deuteronomy 1:16-17
P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others What I mean by this is that God isn't partial in anything and that he loves all the same way because hes not partial and hes Love which is shown in scripture. John 3:16 and Romans 2:11 and 1 John 4:7-8
P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved; Are you implying God chooses certain people to be saved but still desires all them to be saved and loves all his creation equally?
P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially. Deuteronomy 10:17 and Romans 2:11 and 1 Timothy 2:4
This conclusion is still grounded now are you gonna respond to my premises or call that im being fallacious and that my beliefs aren't grounded?

I agree that the scriptures you’ve quoted proves your point but unfortunately Calvinists have a different interpretation of those verses. They don’t believe that John 3:16 means that God loved all men they believe that it means He loved all nations of the world. Meaning God loved people of all nations not that God loved all individuals of the world. So by this interpretation Calvinism cannot be considered to be universal reconciliation.

 

[John Mullally]

That didn’t address the post. So let me be clearer. Do you think someone can be convinced to believe the gospel by using a well-crafted argument?

The Holy Spirit uses the preaching of the Gospel to convict. God will not do for you what he has directed you to do. We are not puppets on a string. Why would Joshua & Elijah say the following if people's will is not involved in following God?

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.​

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hell is for those who sin against God.

No, hell is for those who don’t repent and believe. Sin isn’t the determining factor for our condemnation because all have sinned. The determining factor is repenting and believing in Christ.

 

[John Mullally]

I agree that the scriptures you’ve quoted proves your point but unfortunately Calvinists have a different interpretation of those verses.

Perhaps at some point they will start to believe that which is clearly stated in the Bible.

 

[Hammster]

The Holy Spirit uses the preaching of the Gospel to convict. God will not do for you what he has directed you to do. We are not puppets on a string. Why would Joshua & Elijah say the following if people's will is not involved in following God?

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

1 Kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.​

Joshua told them to choose which false god to serve. I’m not sure how that’s relevant.

As to your point, since the Holy Spirit uses the preaching to convict (whatever you mean by that), then why doesn’t everyone get to hear the gospel?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Perhaps at some point they will start to believe that which is clearly stated in the Bible.

Only if they develope “ears to hear”.

 

[Hammster]

No, hell is for those who don’t repent and believe. Sin isn’t the determining factor for our condemnation because all have sinned. The determining factor is repenting and believing in Christ.

So people are in hell for a poor decision? That seems harsh.

 

[Hammster]

C’mon boys. No need to start in with insults.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So people are in hell for a poor decision? That seems harsh.

Perhaps it would be harsh if they were not permitted to repent and believe, oh but that’s a Calvinist doctrine, isn’t it?

 

[Hammster]

Perhaps it would be harsh if they were not permitted to repent and believe, oh but that’s a Calvinist doctrine, isn’t it?

Quite the deflection. Do you really think people are under eternal torment for bad decisions?

 

[John Mullally]

So people are in hell for a poor decision? That seems harsh.

Its a lot less harsh, then the "Doctrine of Divine Reprobation" that JM submitted in Post #126.

 

[Hammster]

Its a lot less harsh, then the "Doctrine of Divine Reprobation" that JM submitted in Post #126.

So you still think it’s harsh. Thanks.

 

[John Mullally]

So you still think it’s harsh. Thanks.

I am just commenting on your sensibilities. Your the one that calls it harsh for being judged on your decisions; where arguably you believe something that by any measuring stick is far harsher.

Do you agree with the Doctrine of Divine Reprobation that JM discussed in Post #126? And if so, do you find that just and not harsh?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Quite the deflection. Do you really think people are under eternal torment for bad decisions?

No I don’t., do you really think all sinners go to hell?

 

[Hammster]

I am just commenting on your sensibilities. Your the one that calls it harsh for being judged on your decisions; where arguably you believe something that by any measuring stick is far harsher.

You said it was less harsh. That means that you think it’s harsh, just not as much.

Do you agree with the Doctrine of Divine Reprobation that JM discussed in Post #126? And if so, do you find that just and not harsh?

I didn’t read it. Though I probably agree with him.