Calvinism and its Secret Universalism

[dóxatotheó]

P1) God Loves All and desires all to be saved
P2) God Isn't halfway
P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others
P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved
P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially.
Conclusion: Calvinism is Universalism because God loves all creation and he isn't partially and he can give his unconditional grace to all creation because he loves all his creation equally.
So No nobody disagrees with the sovereignty of God, we disagree with John Calvin's core doctrine. Sorry to say but John Calvinism soft determinism fails according to my premises and conclusions, any rebuttals would be fallacious because P1 and P3 goes together do you agree?
I believe Calvinism fails because these prepositions came to light if any Calvinist has an explanation from my argument; I would love to see it and note: I agree with all scriptures that you believe proves it. I will address those verses after you address my argument against the belief.

 

[public hermit]

I agree with your general argument that, strictly speaking, Calvinism leads to Universalism. In fact, the most deplorable aspects of Calvinism (double-predestination) disappear once that conclusion is reached. I disagree that it should be rejected on that basis, but quite the opposite. At any rate, you make a good point.

 

[BBAS 64]

Classic logical fallacy:

The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.

 

[Hammster]

P1) God Loves All and desires all to be saved
P2) God Isn't halfway
P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others
P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved
P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially.
Conclusion: Calvinism is Universalism because God loves all creation and he isn't partially and he can give his unconditional grace to all creation because he loves all his creation equally.
So No nobody disagrees with the sovereignty of God, we disagree with John Calvin's core doctrine. Sorry to say but John Calvinism soft determinism fails according to my premises and conclusions, any rebuttals would be fallacious because P1 and P3 goes together do you agree?
I believe Calvinism fails because these prepositions came to light if any Calvinist has an explanation from my argument; I would love to see it and note: I agree with all scriptures that you believe proves it. I will address those verses after you address my argument against the belief.

Your first premise is wrong.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Classic logical fallacy:

The fallacy of begging the question occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. In other words, you assume without proof the stand/position, or a significant part of the stand, that is in question.

Are you insinuating I cant prove my premises OK I will prove each premise right now with scripture.
P1)God Loves All and desires all to be saved 1 John 4:7-8, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16, and 1 Timothy 2:4
P2) God Isn't halfway Romans 2:11 and Deuteronomy 1:16-17
P3) Gods Love is Loving his creation like the others What I mean by this is that God isn't partial in anything and that he loves all the same way because hes not partial and hes Love which is shown in scripture. John 3:16 and Romans 2:11 and 1 John 4:7-8
P4) God can give unconditional grace to everyone because he loves everyone and desire them to be saved; Are you implying God chooses certain people to be saved but still desires all them to be saved and loves all his creation equally?
P5) God choosing certain people isn't love and its him being partially. Deuteronomy 10:17 and Romans 2:11 and 1 Timothy 2:4

conclusion: Calvinism is Universalism because God loves all creation and he isn't partially and he can give his unconditional grace to all creation because he loves all his creation equally.

This conclusion is still grounded now are you gonna respond to my premises or call that im being fallacious and that my beliefs aren't grounded?

 

[dóxatotheó]

Your first premise is wrong.

1 Timothy 2:4 and 1 John 4:8 and John 3:16 and Romans 1:11 and Deuteronomy 10:17 also provide Scripture that says God doesn't love all

 

[Hammster]

1 Timothy 2:4 and 1 John 4:8 and John 3:16 and Romans 1:11 and Deuteronomy 10:17 also provide Scripture that says God doesn't love all

I agree that God doesn’t love all.

 

[dóxatotheó]

I agree that God doesn’t love all.

Scripture for this and are you implying God is partial outside eternity are you insinuating that God has a right to not love someone even though he knows the outcome of that person before he was ever even born? God determining all things according to his foreknowledge it would be illogical for him not to love all creation because he the one who knew and created him before he was ever created and he determined the outcome of his choice.

 

[Hammster]

Scripture and are you implying God is partial outside eternity are you insinuating that God has a right to not love someone even though he knows the outcome of that person before he was ever even born?

God has the right to love nobody.

 

[dóxatotheó]

God has the right to love nobody.

But that would contradict the bible and Classical theism. The bible is very apparent that God is Love and isn't partially. I assume you believe double-predestination because you seem to believe God creates humans explicitly for hell.

 

[Hammster]

But that would contradict the bible and Classical theism. The bible is very apparent that God is Love and isn't partially. I assume you believe double-predestination because you seem to believe God creates humans explicitly for hell.

First off, that doesn’t contradict the Bible. Second, you might want to look at the verses in context where it talks about God not being partial. They don’t state what you think.

 

[dóxatotheó]

First off, that doesn’t contradict the Bible

If God isn't omnibenevolent im pretty sure it contradicts the bible. Because if God is not partial and is perfect and is Love how in anyway do we come to the conclusion that he doesn't love certain people in his creation that HE CREATED and KNEW WOULD MAKE THAT CHOICE before he was created. Are you now implying God makes mistakes?

Second, you might want to look at the verses in context where it talks about God not being partial. They don’t state what you think.

16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
I put context it says exactly what it says hes not partial.

 

[Hammster]

If God isn't omnibenevolent im pretty sure it contradicts the bible. Because if God is not partial and is perfect and is Love how in anyway do we come to the conclusion that he doesn't love certain people in his creation that HE CREATED and KNEW WOULD MAKE THAT CHOICE before he was created. Are you now implying God makes mistakes?

You are stating that He’s omnibenevolent. Does that mean that God loves everyone equally?

16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
I put context it says exactly what it says hes not partial.

That’s not context. That’s just quoting two verses. Why was that said?

 

[dóxatotheó]

That’s not context. That’s just quoting two verses. Why was that said?

and now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but ito fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and lto keep the commandments and statutes of the Lord, which I am commanding you today for your good? 14 Behold, to the Lord your God belong heaven and the heaven of heavens, the earth with all that is in it. 15 Yet pthe Lord set his heart in love on your fathers and chose their offspring after them, you above all peoples, as you are this day. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no longer stubborn. 17 For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.
You tell me what it means cause context still leads to this conclusion.

You are stating that He’s omnibenevolent. Does that mean that God loves everyone equally?

Yes its in the definition all loving and perfect? We would come to the conclusion that God isnt perfect and all loving if he didn't and God would be anthropomorphic which im pretty sure you don't want that being used to refer to God in anyway. We would also come to the conclusion that God makes mistakes

 

[Hammster]

You tell me what it means cause context still leads to this conclusion.

Was that said to all nations? No. God showed partiality towards Israel. He wasn’t partial within Israel.

 

[Hammster]

Yes its in the definition all loving and perfect? We would come to the conclusion that God isnt perfect and all loving if he didn't and God would be anthropomorphic which im pretty sure you don't want that being used to refer to God in anyway. We would also come to the conclusion that God makes mistakes

So let me get this straight. You accuse Calvinism of logically leading to universalism, yet you picture God as omni-benevolent. That would make God a universalist.

 

[dóxatotheó]

Was that said to all nations? No. God showed partiality towards Israel

Show scripture of God being Partial

He wasn’t partial within Israel.

I agree
also side question do God hate babies?

 

[dóxatotheó]

yet you picture God as omni-benevolent. That would make God a universalist.

Huh? You don't understand my views are secondly, I never once said Gods love for all meant everyone gets salvation thats a strawman of my position.

You accuse Calvinism of logically leading to universalism

Does God love every baby he create?

 

[Hammster]

Show scripture of God being Partial

“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’ “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
— Matthew 25:31-46

 

[Hammster]

Huh? You don't understand my views are secondly, I never once said Gods love for all meant everyone gets salvation thats a strawman of my position.

It’s not a straw man. If God loves everyone equally, then there’s no need for hell. It’s not a straw man to show you where your argument breaks down.