SPF
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- Feb 7, 2017
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Right, I agree with that. But the question I have surrounds the fact that Jesus' conditional statement means that unless the Father draws them, they cannot come to Christ. Do you understand what conditional statements are?I already told you. Those who obey GOD abide with GOD, and GOD rewards them (with things like being drawn, etc.).
You have an outcome: Come to Christ
You have a condition that must be met BEFORE the outcome can occur: Drawn by the Father.
So again, my question is why must these Believing Jews be drawn by the Father in order to come to Christ? You still haven't answered that.
Certainly not, you've outlined the context very clearly in who we are talking about. I understand who we are talking about, and accept the person that you believe the Father is drawing. But it doesn't change the fact that this Jew in question must be drawn by the Father in order to come to Christ. Why? Why must they be drawn? Why can't they come to Christ on their own? Why must a drawing by the Father occur?That is the short answer. But it's not that the Father first draws a person at random or that GOD is changing an unregenerate heart out of the crowd here or changing a person's free will as Calvinism is suggesting.
Yes. How many times can a person tell you that you're right before you accept it?Have you really accepted this as the context?
I'm quoting the verse! I'm not making those words up!It doesn't sound like you agree because you are arguing for the words, “No one”
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Furthermore, I'm agreeing with you on who Jesus is referring to when He says "no one" It's this person:
Context champ. When I said seeking, I didn't mean they hadn't found God yet. I meant seeking in the same way you and I seek. I seek after a deeper relationship with Christ. I seek daily to become more like Christ. I seek daily to be conformed more to His Image. That is the context in which I was referring to the Jew in question. I fully accept your position on who Jesus is referring to in the passage. Can you just accept that and get onto answering my question?No, no, no. Your doing it again. You are saying seeking Jew, when this is a Jew who abides with GOD and or walks with GOD and has His favor already because this Jew OBEYS God.
Completely agree. The problem lies in the fact that Jesus lays out a conditional statement in which He says that the Jew in question cannot come to Him unless the Father draws him.It's a relationship with GOD that grants a person the ability to be drawn to Jesus because GOD abides and lives in their life. Without GOD in their life, they cannot know the deep things of GOD and or be guided fully by GOD.
So why? Why must the Father draw the Jew? Do you not yet understand the question I'm asking? Is it really that hard of a question to understand?
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