Calvinism and Abortion

[Hmm]

John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit in his mother's womb.

A unique event for a unique role

 

[Hmm]

This thread has been useful in that it's reminded me of the absurdity that can happen once you allow yourself to lose sight of the big Biblical picture.

 

[Dave L]

A unique event for a unique role

You need to consider the big picture and strain out gnats.

 

[Hmm]

You need to consider the big picture and strain out gnats.

Yes, yes... (slowly backing away)

 

[Rescued One]

So... is the Calvinist position that God sends an aborted baby that does not have Christian relatives to hell. And an aborted baby that does have Christian relatives may or may not be one of the Elect?

I don't know. But God knows. An Arminian and a Calvinist read the same Bible and come up with different answers. Not all Calvinsts believe the same nor do all Arninians believe alike. Accepting a belief of Arminius or Calvin is not proof.

 

[Dave L]

Yes, yes... (slowly backing away)

If a baby is God's elect, won't they go to heaven even if they die at conception?

 

[Hmm]

If a baby is God's elect, won't they go to heaven even if they die at conception?

I don't think I can make my position on this any clearer so best to quit this conversation. Thanks for the chat.

 

[Dave L]

I don't think I can make my position on this any clearer so best to quit this conversation. Thanks for the chat.

I'm not clear on your position. State it briefly in as few words as you can.

 

[Rescued One]

If a baby is God's elect, won't they go to heaven even if they die at conception?

Read your Bible. Define elect. Does God elect without giving that person protection? Did God send Jesus to save every person, every sinner, or only some people in the world?

 

[Dave L]

Read your Bible. Define elect. Does God elect without giving that person protection? Did God send Jesus to save every person, every sinner, or only some people in the world?

God condemned all in Adam. Only a few randomly chosen had their sins paid for by Christ and are saved. Age doesn't matter.

 

[Rescued One]

God condemned all in Adam. Only a few randomly chosen had their sins paid for by Christ and are saved. Age doesn't matter.

People worry about that. People might be in church every Sunday, but are too busy to read their Bibles. Others believe what the pastor says. People misinterpret the Bible and some come to CF to ask questions. "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." Some people will say, "Everyone dies, but everyone will be resurected (believer and non-believers)." A Prebyterian told me that babies who die before being baptized go to hell.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

God condemned all in Adam. Only a few randomly chosen had their sins paid for by Christ and are saved. Age doesn't matter.

God saves a multitude in Christ,more than the sand of the sea,or the stars of heaven.
A multitude chosen by direct purposeful election.
Nothing random about it,not a few but a multitude.

 

[Dave L]

God saves a multitude in Christ,more than the sand of the sea,or the stars of heaven.
A multitude chosen by direct purposeful election.
Nothing random about it,not a few but a multitude.

Are you saying God is a respecter of persons?
“Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” Luke 13:23–24 (KJV 1900)

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

As I was thinking on total depravity and the west-borrow baptist church(calvinist extremists), I had this thought about calvinism taken to its logical end. What are your thoughts on this?

A calvinist would say that God hates sin and the sinner(hence Limited Atonement):

“The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭11:5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

And we glorify God in His holiness and judgement of sin. So lets take this to its logical extreme:

“Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭51:5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬


So how does a calvinist take issue with abortion? If an infant has sinful nature at edconception, and dies in the womb, shouldnt the calvinist glorify God for punishing the sinner? Shouldnt calvinists glorify abortion because God is judging sinners?

Limited atonement is based on God's love and mercy,not what He hates.
All elect infants,dying in infancy are saved by God.
Your caricature indicates a defective understanding of God and His Covenant salvation.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Are you saying God is a respecter of persons?
“Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.” Luke 13:23–24 (KJV 1900)

I am saying I believe God as in Gen 13:16,Gen 15:5

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

I believe in choice when it comes to abortions. Abortion is a no no for me and whomever I am with, but I allow for choice. But, the thing where the longer you live the more wrath you store up stuff, yeah, no!

That makes repentance of no effect and therefore Jesus died for nothing!

Whoever you are with?
Are you suggesting that you are engaged in sexual activity outside of marriage?
God does not allow for choice, as if murder is a choice.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

As I said, I allow for choice. They can choose to have an abortion or not. It is up to them to decide. I will not make that choice for them.

Murder is sin at all times. Not a choice,it is a sin

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Your question is ridiculous and serves no other purpose but to insinuate that Calvinists are so evil that they ought to love abortion.

Reformed Christians believe we are called to live holy lives. There is nothing holy about the unlawful taking of life, as evidenced by the 10 commandments. I know of no Calvinist who rejoices over abortion or who would ever cite these passages and say they justify abortion. Any claim that reformed people believe or should believe this is nothing short of slander.

Many hate God and His word.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

Did I say that? God gives us a choice, to follow him or not. Who am I to force something on someone when not even God does that?

All men are commanded to repent and believe the gospel. It is not an option.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

IMO crazy thinking. Babies are neither elect or not elect. Elect are those people that get born again by the Holy Spirit (whether it's by predestination or not).

No...God has elected a multitude to be saved,before the world was.
Jer.1:5,2tim1:9