Cain and Abel

[mmksparbud]

The name Abel means "breathing spirit" or vapor, vanity/empty or son. Cain and Abel could have been twins or born at the same time with Cain leaving the womb early possibly making Abel the firstborn. YHWH accepting Abel offering could have been a sign of this truth or birthright. The older shall serve the younger, Abel "fed" or served his flock; Genesis 25:23 and John 21:17.

mmmmm---I don't think so--It says Cain came first and then she again.

"and she brought forth again his brother Hevel, and Hevel existed as a feeder of the flocks, and Qayin existed as a server of the ground,"
Firstborn's are always mentioned first.
The elder shall serve the younger was not said until Rebekah--about Esau and Jacob
Gen 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

 

[ralliann]

It is sinful for the priests to drink fermented drink, or trampled grapes under foot. It is not sinful for the priests to eat fruit from the vine. Genesis 9:20-21. Noah planted a vineyard, he was a man that worked the soil like his father Adam.

Levitical law....order of Aaron
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Order Melchizedek
Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

 

[ralliann]

No Cain being the firstborn bore the burden from his father. Adam is called a son of G-d. Luke 3:38 and Hosea 14:6, Matthew 6:28-29.

In bringing this notion of heirs and inheritance into consideration????????

This brings into the equation the notion of Adam dieing in the day he ate, as a day being a thousand years...Adam died at 969 yes?
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
All receive a portion
The firstborn receives a double portion among his brothers. Cain was not an only born (sole heir). Besides, an inheritance only has force after the father dies.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

In bringing this notion of heirs and inheritance into consideration????????

This brings into the equation the notion of Adam dieing in the day he ate, as a day being a thousand years...Adam died at 969 yes?
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
All receive a portion
The firstborn receives a double portion among his brothers. Cain was not an only born (sole heir). Besides, an inheritance only has force after the father dies.

Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Gen 25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.

The prodigal son and his brother received their inheritance while the Father was alive. Yes indeed, a will only goes into effect after death.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

Levitical law....order of Aaron
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Order Melchizedek
Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Are you familiar with the nazarite vow? According to Torah, almost everything is purified with blood, both the scroll and all the people.

 

[ralliann]

The prodigal son and his brother received their inheritance while the Father was alive. Yes indeed, a will only goes into effect after death.

So, the prodigal son was not treated as as heir. Just as Abe's other son's were given gifts, but all he had was Isaacs, we see this said to the other son.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

 

[ralliann]

Are you familiar with the nazarite vow? According to Torah, almost everything is purified with blood, both the scroll and all the people.

My response concerned your statements about priests.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

mmmmm---I don't think so--It says Cain came first and then she again.

"and she brought forth again his brother Hevel, and Hevel existed as a feeder of the flocks, and Qayin existed as a server of the ground,"
Firstborn's are always mentioned first.
The elder shall serve the younger was not said until Rebekah--about Esau and Jacob
Gen 25:21 And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived.
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Cain left his mother's womb first, the younger (prodigal) son left his fathers home first. However Abel fed a flock of sheep, so he served others.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

So, the prodical so was not treated as as an heir.

If an agreement is made, sometimes goods are possessed or acquired prior to final purchase, like credit. A promise to pay is made, but the customer is allowed to acquire assets prior to final payment so as long as he has a creditor or guarantor. The prodigal son and his brother received their inheritance prior to their father's death although the older brother never asked for his portion or inheritance.

 

[ralliann]

Cain left his mother's womb first,

Ex 13:12 That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD’S.
openeth

06363 פטר peter peh’-ter or פטרה pitrah pit-raw’
from 06362; n m; [BDB-809b] {See TWOT on 1764 @@ "1764a"} {See TWOT on 1764 @@ "1764b"}
AV-open 8, firstling 4; 12
1) firstborn, firstling, that which separates or first opens

matrix

07358 רחם rechem rekh’-em
from 07355; n m; [BDB-933a] {See TWOT on 2146 @@ "2146a"}
AV-womb 21, matrix 5; 26
1) womb
1a) womb
1b) womb-infant, woman-slave, woman

 

[ralliann]

If an agreement is made, sometimes goods are possessed or acquired prior to final purchase, like credit. A promise to pay is made, but the customer is allowed to acquire assets prior to final payment so as long as he has a creditor or guarantor. The prodigal son and his brother received their inheritance prior to their father's death although the older brother never asked for his portion or inheritance.

No, that is not what scripture says......The prodigal was as Abe's other sons. It was "gifting" to a son. Would you really have us believe neither son's are heirs? The story nowhere mentions inheritance, except in likeness to Isaac in saying to the other son, all that I have is thine......He remains the heir...I would even say the account indicates, the prodigal was like as a hireling, to the brother.
17 And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

 

[ralliann]

If an agreement is made, sometimes goods are possessed or acquired prior to final purchase, like credit. A promise to pay is made, but the customer is allowed to acquire assets prior to final payment so as long as he has a creditor or guarantor.

This has nothing to do with HEIRS, nor a will (testament) of inheritance.

The prodigal son and his brother received their inheritance prior to their father's death although the older brother never asked for his portion or inheritance.

No, scripture says of the remaining son,
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

25:5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
None the less, none is in force, or having an effect, until the death of the testator.
The prodigal is broke being in effect without inheritance, when the other sons comes into effect. IOW, has force or application.

 

[mmksparbud]

Levitical law....order of Aaron
Le 10:9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
Order Melchizedek
Ge 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

The order was for when the priests were going into the tabernacle as you have bolded. No wine at all. They were in the house of God. Outside of it, they drank diluted wine. This is not a contradiction.

 

[ralliann]

The order was for when the priests were going into the tabernacle as you have bolded. No wine at all. They were in the house of God. Outside of it, they drank diluted wine. This is not a contradiction.

N/t made boo boo in understanding so this post is changed. I did not intend a contradiction between the two priesthoods concerning wine. That is why I bolded the part about wine when in the temple itself.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

So, the prodigal son was not treated as as heir. Just as Abe's other son's were given gifts, but all he had was Isaacs, we see this said to the other son.
31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

The prodigal son and his older brother both received their full inheritance. Luke 15:12. After the prodigal son returned, he asked his father to treat him like one of his servants. However the Father celebrated instead and dressed his son in glory: robe, ring, sandals. The father tells his elder son that all he has is his, this part of the law go into effect after the father's death, he would become the crowned prince. The prodigal son is already a co-heir since they both received their inheritance. Romans 8:17.

 

[Mercymessianicjudiasm]

I said the priests did not drink fermented drink. Hebrews 13:10-11

 

[ralliann]

I said the priests did not drink fermented drink. Hebrews 13:10-11

Oh, ok. Sorry. I changed the comment.

 

[Open Heart]

The ground was cursed, the ground was punished. Yet the flowers out in the field blossom and grow; they are dressed in glory; Rose of Sharon.

All of this happened because of Adam's sin. Therefore it was a punishment. And who is hurt by it? Humanity. Thus it is Adam/Humanity that is punished. Honestly, I shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

 

[Open Heart]

The ground was cursed to punish the ground

What sin did the ground do? [staff edited]

 

[Open Heart]

Um I have not argued the ground was cursed, mmj did that.

Sorry, I got confused and thought your post was from MMJ. This kind of mistake is my #1 biggest "stupid in the no stupid zone" on the forum.