But heaven isnt appealing

[quatona]

Do you equate crime with psychopathy?

No.

Am I a psychopath if I exceed the speed limit?

No, not necessarily.

The perfect crime might be embezzlement without being noticed. I do not think that is psychopathic do you?

No, not necessarily.

Now you may think it is wrong to embezzle but you are not the poster that the question was asked of and perhaps have a different POV on life than that poster.

I didn´t say anything about "wrong".
I didn´t say anything about crimes or particular crimes.
I said something about the mindset the poster in question described himself as having. It´s a rare condition, and if his religion keeps him from acting upon it, I am all glad it´s there for him.

He also said "If I were you, I would..." - and he´s clearly mistaken. If he were me he wouldn´t have this desire.

 

[paulm50]

Most atheists, that I have seen posting here, deny the first part of your post and affirm the last. Unlike them, you seem to think there is no contradiction in the two concepts of doing what you want and living the best way. Perhaps you could expand upon that. I would suggest, for instance that living like I want would involve my acquiring the things I desire with no concern for anyone else that I have no close relationship with. In other words living pretty much like the majority of people now live but without the guilt. For some reason I do not understand, there are a number of atheists that say this a bad idea and insist that we ought to be concerned with the plight of not only others we do not know that are now alive but others that may or may not one day exist to the point that they will sacrifice acquiring some of their own dearly desired personal luxuries and even some relationships of great value to them in response to this idea. They even advocate that their close family and friends do the same. Not just strangers whose well being they have no reason to care about. As there is no way to predict even whether tomorrow the present humans will exist, to plan for the welfare of some hypothetical future humans who may well never exist at all, seems a bit ridiculous. To my mind that is an irrational response to the fact that this is the only life one has.

The problem with any religious group understanding atheist is.
We're not swayed by words. Religious people are always telling us how great it is on their side of the fence. When we ask them why, their replies are often, about an afterlife, being in god's grace, etc. Things that when we ask for explanations or proof, they often quote passages from the bible. Which is like me posting passages from the Iliad to make my point.

When we quote facts. like Humans have only been here for a fraction of the life of Earth.

And that for most of that time we were primitive. Both of these have all the evidence required.

Christians reply with this. Which has no evidence, and a lot of contradictory evidence.

And can anyone prove the last one? No, Christians just tell us it's true. Then confused that words don't work.

And then some Christians abandon what's clearly wrong, and fall back to what we are in the process of discovering. Proving they doubt the words of god.

 

[paulm50]

I suggest you to read a few chapters in the Book of Ecclesiastes. It definitely gives you a different view.

To correct you in a very simple way, I just rephrase what you said but adding ONE key word to it:

.... It tells you to enjoy IF (or when) you suffer.

Can you see the difference? Are you able to do that?

So I enjoy suffering. And then what?

The bible has a few bits that tell the poor and humble to be grateful for the little they have. Great propaganda by the people at the top. Meek will inherit, blessed is the peacemaker, a camel can pass through the eye of a needle, etc. Now we have Ecclesiastes written by Solomon, telling his people to suffer and enjoy it.

God sent Asmodeus to depose Solomon, as a punishment for the king's sin. Sems he got some things wrong.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The problem with any religious group understanding atheist is.
We're not swayed by words. Religious people are always telling us how great it is on their side of the fence. When we ask them why, their replies are often, about an afterlife, being in god's grace, etc. Things that when we ask for explanations or proof, they often quote passages from the bible. Which is like me posting passages from the Iliad to make my point.

When we quote facts. like Humans have only been here for a fraction of the life of Earth.

And that for most of that time we were primitive. Both of these have all the evidence required.

Christians reply with this. Which has no evidence, and a lot of contradictory evidence.

And can anyone prove the last one? No, Christians just tell us it's true. Then confused that words don't work.

And then some Christians abandon what's clearly wrong, and fall back to what we are in the process of discovering. Proving they doubt the words of god.

Other than the stereotyping of all Christians as being the same on these things I see your point but how does it relate to my post? Or the post I was responding to ? We were talking about how one acts in response to one's POV on the existence of a god or not and the poster i responsded to said hbecause of an atheistic position on the subject that poster does what that poster wants to do and finds that the best way to live. I found that somewhat differed from most of the atheist posters on this site that believe they have some sort of responsibility toward society or some such thing.

 

[grasping the after wind]

So I enjoy suffering. And then what?

The bible has a few bits that tell the poor and humble to be grateful for the little they have. Great propaganda by the people at the top. Meek will inherit, blessed is the peacemaker, a camel can pass through the eye of a needle, etc. Now we have Ecclesiastes written by Solomon, telling his people to suffer and enjoy it.

God sent Asmodeus to depose Solomon, as a punishment for the king's sin. Sems he got some things wrong.

He also said that we ought to eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of your labors because that is man's portion in life. A philosophy much akin to the poster I was mentioning earlier.

 

[paulm50]

Other than the stereotyping of all Christians as being the same on these things I see your point but how does it relate to my post? Or the post I was responding to ? We were talking about how one acts in response to one's POV on the existence of a god or not and the poster i responsded to said hbecause of an atheistic position on the subject that poster does what that poster wants to do and finds that the best way to live. I found that somewhat differed from most of the atheist posters on this site that believe they have some sort of responsibility toward society or some such thing.

I illustrated why Atheist don't believe in mere words. And many christians do even when presented with undeniable evidence they deny it.

You were posting about a lack of understanding, I was illustrating it.

 

[Messy]

Heaven is boring and unappealing. I think its like being in church all the time, to be honest I don't really want to worship God

If church was like heaven the whole world would be saved.
You should read that book of Chinese kids who saw heaven. They hoped that not one kid would die because the other ones would become jealous.

 

[juvenissun]

Can´t tell you that or what´s wrong with you - all I can say is: Fortunately, people like you - i.e. people who suffer from psychopathy - are but a very small minority. There´s absolutely no good reason to found our metaphysical views on your/their condition.
However, personally, I am happy about every psychopath whom religion keeps from acting upon their condition (which, though, doesn´t work with most of them).

That is good enough. If you can't, then you can not call me a psychopath (what is it anyway?). May be I am a genius instead.

 

[quatona]

That is good enough. If you can't, then you can not call me a psychopath

Sure I can.

(what is it anyway?)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=psychopath

May be I am a genius instead.

Being a psychopath and being a genius isn´t mutually exclusive.

 

[juvenissun]

So I enjoy suffering. And then what?

The bible has a few bits that tell the poor and humble to be grateful for the little they have. Great propaganda by the people at the top. Meek will inherit, blessed is the peacemaker, a camel can pass through the eye of a needle, etc. Now we have Ecclesiastes written by Solomon, telling his people to suffer and enjoy it.

God sent Asmodeus to depose Solomon, as a punishment for the king's sin. Sems he got some things wrong.

Is that what you read in Ecclesiastes? I guess it is about the time for me to give up on you.
Good luck.

 

[juvenissun]

Sure I can.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=psychopath

Being a psychopath and being a genius isn´t mutually exclusive.

If so, how do you tell? Why don't you suggest that I am both?

 

[quatona]

If so, how do you tell?

By the criteria given in the definition of "psychopath".

Why don't you suggest that I am both?

Because your post merely displayed symptoms of psychopathy, not of geniality. That´s why I just addressed that part.
You might be a genius, too, but your post didn´t display any traits of that, so I can´t know.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I illustrated why Atheist don't believe in mere words. And many christians do even when presented with undeniable evidence they deny it.

You were posting about a lack of understanding, I was illustrating it.

I'm not sure asserting something is the same as illustrating it even if you use nice charts and graphs while asserting it.

 

[masterp48hd]

Most atheists, that I have seen posting here, deny the first part of your post and affirm the last. Unlike them, you seem to think there is no contradiction in the two concepts of doing what you want and living the best way. Perhaps you could expand upon that. I would suggest, for instance that living like I want would involve my acquiring the things I desire with no concern for anyone else that I have no close relationship with. In other words living pretty much like the majority of people now live but without the guilt. For some reason I do not understand, there are a number of atheists that say this a bad idea and insist that we ought to be concerned with the plight of not only others we do not know that are now alive but others that may or may not one day exist to the point that they will sacrifice acquiring some of their own dearly desired personal luxuries and even some relationships of great value to them in response to this idea. They even advocate that their close family and friends do the same. Not just strangers whose well being they have no reason to care about. As there is no way to predict even whether tomorrow the present humans will exist, to plan for the welfare of some hypothetical future humans who may well never exist at all, seems a bit ridiculous. To my mind that is an irrational response to the fact that this is the only life one has.

Living the best way is up to you and your definition of "best way". I mean nobody can have an absolue 100% perfect life, and the world is not always nice so you probably won't be able to get rid of the guilt for being selfish, but is up to you if you decide to be selfish and live with it or to not have guilt but not buy the things you want. You can do whatever you want but actions always have consequences, and it's really up to you if you can stand the consequences or if you even care.
I always try to live my life the best way i can, but that doesn't mean that i don't care about the consequences of my acts, i have morals and principles so i won't for instance kill a person because i don't like him, i know I'll have guilt afterwards and that I'll go to jail and that is not how i would act at all.
Ps: I wrongly generalized atheists, when tge only thing we have in common is that we don't believe in deities, so I'm talking from my own perspective.
Ps2: i really tried to explain it the best i could but English is not my native language so explaining things is a bit rough to me, i hope you get my point

 

[masterp48hd]

If I were you, then I would dedicate my life to plan and to execute a perfect crime. If one such a crime is too easy to do, then I will try to do two, or three, or more.

Tell me what is wrong in that case. You said, I should to do what I like to do.

If that's really the thing you want to do, i mean you would be a terrible person if you ask me, and you'll waste your life for something as pointless as being evil for the sake of evilness. But also bear.in mind that if you have principles and a certain amount of morals (i mean the basic ones from our society like not killing people lol) you'll probably feel guilty and if your crime turns out to be a not-so-perfect one you'll end up in jail. I don't see why you wouldn't dedicate your life to that, and i don't support it nor understand, i think it's awful but nothing is stopping you

 

[masterp48hd]

Religion won't solve your present problems. It tells you to suffer and enjoy it, in order to get to a better place. That may not exist.

Here's the problem. "My whole life I just wanted to be beautiful and have a privileged life. I am ugly and my life is a nightmare. If I can't have that, then I don't want anything at all."

Everyone has something beautiful in them, it only needs recognising, life is a privilege and without knowing the nightmare it's hard to offer advice. Is the problem lack of a job or one paying good wages. Lack of a job that fulfills you. Illness, age, friends, etc? Once a situation is identified it can be resolved. All a devout person will tell you is to pray to god and wait for a reply, in the mean time believe and your reward will come after you die.
Good advice.

Neither can god help you.

Is life really a privilege? I mean if you don't live you'll never know it and you won't get to live anything, good things nor bad things, but would you really care? Ypu don't have consciousness to care. You only care about living because. You're alive, if you were dead.ypu wouldn't care

 

[juvenissun]

By the criteria given in the definition of "psychopath".

Because your post merely displayed symptoms of psychopathy, not of geniality. That´s why I just addressed that part.
You might be a genius, too, but your post didn´t display any traits of that, so I can´t know.

According to those criteria, we will misidentify many many psychopaths and geniuses.

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

If someone thinks heaven isn't appealing they've obviously not considered Hell's lack of perks.

 

[juvenissun]

If that's really the thing you want to do, i mean you would be a terrible person if you ask me, and you'll waste your life for something as pointless as being evil for the sake of evilness. But also bear.in mind that if you have principles and a certain amount of morals (i mean the basic ones from our society like not killing people lol) you'll probably feel guilty and if your crime turns out to be a not-so-perfect one you'll end up in jail. I don't see why you wouldn't dedicate your life to that, and i don't support it nor understand, i think it's awful but nothing is stopping you

If I were an atheist and I could have accomplished several major perfect crimes in my life, I would have sensed a very high degree of life achievement. And I would say that I have done well in my life.

 

[bhsmte]

According to those criteria, we will misidentify many many psychopaths and geniuses.

Why?