Born Again

[Albion]

All right. Just for fun, point me to the verses you cited which deal directly with the items I mentioned in my post (#57). Those would be Papal Infallibility, Indulgences, and Seven Sacraments.

I see comments about Communion, bishops, the need to confess sins, etc. etc.

 

[Fidelibus]

All right. Just for fun, point me to the verses you cited which deal directly with the items I mentioned in my post (#57). Those would be Papal Infallibility, Indulgences, and Seven Sacraments.

I see comments about Communion, bishops, the need to confess sins, etc. etc.

You are kidding.... right? If you didn't, wouldn't or couldn't see them the first go around, what would make me think you would the second time around?

Have a Blessed Easter Season

 

[Albion]

You are kidding.... right? If you didn't, wouldn't or couldn't see them the first go around, what would make me think you would the second time around?

Well, I gave you the chance to show me to have been mistaken. I knew, of course, that you might make some sort of case for one or two of those quotes you gave us, but that this would be the best that could be done, and it wouldn't be a strong case.

For example, confessing ones sins during worship does not make Confession/Reconciliation into a sacrament. The Catholic Church itself didn't consider it to be a sacrament for many centuries, let alone settle on seven of them. Not until the High Middle Ages.

And there was nothing whatsoever in your citations that dealt with Papal Infallibility. The primacy of St. Peter and the prominence of the Roman diocese perhaps, but that's not Papal Infallibility...which also wasn't a doctrine through most of Catholic Church history. So those are some examples of what I was referring to.

 

[Fidelibus]

Well, I gave you the chance to show me to have been mistaken. I knew, of course, that you might make some sort of case for one or two of those quotes you gave us, but that this would be the best that could be done, and it wouldn't be a strong case.

For example, confessing ones sins during worship does not make Confession/Reconciliation into a sacrament. The Catholic Church itself didn't consider it to be a sacrament for many centuries, let alone settle on seven of them. Not until the High Middle Ages.

And there was nothing whatsoever in your citations that dealt with Papal Infallibility. The primacy of St. Peter and the prominence of the Roman diocese perhaps, but that's not Papal Infallibility...which also wasn't a doctrine through most of Catholic Church history. So those are some examples of what I was referring to.

Well, you are entitled to your personal..... yet fallible opinion.

Have a Blessed Easter Season

 

[Andy centek]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

Seeing how the apostle Paul was appointed as the apostle to the Gentile world we should follow what He had written. In realation to the question is the follwoing.

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Rom_9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom_11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
1Co_3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet

Andy Centek

 

[Andy centek]

OH! By the way: What Denomanation was Paul ??

 

[Andy centek]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

Consider what the apostle to the Gentiles; appointed so by Jesus Chist, had to say about it.
Rom_10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
1Co_1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
To call upon then requires that one is sanctified in Christ. Who does that? God Almighty; by His choice, hence, The Elect of God.

Andy Centek

 

[Andy centek]

Christ speaks of the new birth in the third chapter of the Gospel of John. The new birth is, in theological terms, regeneration.

I'm somewhat surprised that, as a Catholic, you aren't familiar with this. Jesus says in John 3:5 that the new birth is by water and the Spirit:

-CryptoLutheran

 

[W2L]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

I believe accepting the Lord as a personal savior is more of an invitation than a command. IMO anyway.

 

[ac28]

In the Gospels, Christ said that the Jews He was ministering to must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (or God). Christ was a minister to Israel, not Gentiles - Jn 1:31, Mt 15:24. There was nothing said about being born again being related to salvation and I know of no place where it says that Gentiles must be born again. He also said that one must be born of water and Spirit. Obviously, that is water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit. In Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, 2:20, it says that the ordinances (e.g., water baptism) were taken out of the way for us Gentiles.

We are Gentiles and we must listen to Paul, THE apostle, preacher, minister, and teacher to the Gentiles. Paul's Gospel of Salvation is found in 1Cor 15:1-4. Listen to Paul.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In the Gospels, Christ said that the Jews He was ministering to must be born again to enter the Kingdom of Heaven (or God). Christ was a minister to Israel, not Gentiles - Jn 1:31, Mt 15:24. There was nothing said about being born again being related to salvation and I know of no place where it says that Gentiles must be born again. He also said that one must be born of water and Spirit. Obviously, that is water baptism and the baptism of the Spirit. In Eph 2:15, Col 2:14, 2:20, it says that the ordinances (e.g., water baptism) were taken out of the way for us Gentiles.

We are Gentiles and we must listen to Paul, THE apostle, preacher, minister, and teacher to the Gentiles. Paul's Gospel of Salvation is found in 1Cor 15:1-4. Listen to Paul.

This two Gospel theology of Dispensationalism is quite wacky.

There's one Gospel--the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the good news of God fulfilling His promise to Israel (and the whole world) of the coming of the Messiah, and with Him the salvation, the redemption, of the world. And so we read in Mark's Gospel that the Lord Jesus came declaring, "The kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the Gospel!" The preaching of the kingdom of God is central to the Gospel because through Jesus God's kingly reign is inaugurated, what does Jesus say to the Pharisees? "The kingdom does not come with observation, no one says, it's over there or it's over here, the kingdom is in your midst." The kingdom was present in their midst in the Person of Jesus, because Jesus is God being King. After all, He says to Pilate, "You are right that I am a king" but also, "My kingdom is not of this world."

The kingdom of God is not an earthly, temporal kingdom dominated by power; it is the kingdom where the least is greatest, the last is first, where the banquet call goes out to the lowly, the disenfranchised, to sinners, tax collectors, and prostitutes. The kingdom of God, ultimately, looks like the Son of God laying down His life, and paradoxically defeating the powers of the world by His death at the hands of those powers, and by His resurrection, ascension, where He reigns even now as King of kings and Lord of lords at the right hand of the Father--as St. Paul reminds us that Christ shall reign until all things are subject to Him, and that the last enemy to be defeated is death, which is at the resurrection of the dead at His glorious coming, "For each in their own order, Christ the first fruits, then those who are dead in Christ at His coming" for at His coming, the dead shall rise, and it shall be that it can be said, "Where O Death is your victory? Where O Death is your sting?" For death is swallowed up in victory.

We enter into God's kingdom by the grace of God, through new birth, a birth of water and Spirit as the Lord says to Nicodemus in John 3:5, and St. Paul says in Titus 3:5 that we have been saved not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God's mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, and we can look to see what St. Peter says in Acts 2:38, "Repent and be baptized all of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". And, indeed, this Baptism means that we have died to sin, for "Don't you know that all of us who have been baptized into Jesus Christ have been baptized into His death?" (Romans 6:3), indeed we have been clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27), and we are therefore new creations in Christ Jesus our Lord, born of God, adopted by grace, having received the Spirit of His Son who cries out from in us saying, "Abba! Father!" (Galatians 4:6).

We have, therefore, a citizenship that is from heaven (Philippians 3:20), in Christ; for indeed even now we are seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6). As sons and daughters of the Father, by our having been joined together with Jesus as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

There is not one way of salvation for the Jew and another for the Gentile, what does St. Paul explicitly say? "I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Gentile. For the justice of God is revealed in the Gospel from faith to faith, just as it is written, the just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:16-17). And the Sacraments which our Lord Jesus Christ instituted are not done away, they are the very precious Means of Grace which He has given His Church for their appointed task: To make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, to preach the Gospel to every living creature.

There is one God and Father, one Lord, one Spirit, one Baptism, one Church, and one faith (Ephesians 4:4-6).

The Apostle is clear, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23). And also, "For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith, and not of yourself, it is the gift of God; not of works, so no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9). This faith we have received as pure gift from God, by the word of Christ (Romans 10:17) by which we have been indeed sanctified ("...sanctified and cleansed her by the washing of water by the word", Ephesians 5:26).

So the Church preaches the word and administers the Sacraments since through these the Holy Spirit works to create faith and appropriate to helpless and powerless sinners the all sufficient and saving work of Jesus Christ that by His death and resurrection having destroyed the power of sin, death, hell, and the devil He has taken hold of us, in His great kindness, to unite us to Himself and to reconcile us to God, make us children, and give us the promise of eternal life in the Age to Come. And God shall be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:28).

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, male nor female, slave nor free, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian nor Scythian. We are one in Christ Jesus our Lord who reconciles us all together in the peace of God in His Person as the people of His everlasting kingdom, both now and forever, Age without end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ac28]

Gospel never means any more than "Good News" and there is a lot of different Good News in the NT. The Gospel of the Kingdom was what Christ taught during His earthly ministry. It essentially was, "Your promised Messiah is here. Believe in Him and the Kingdom of Heaven will quickly be ushered in."

The Church in Acts was actually a Jewish Church, since all saved Gentiles were grafted into the good olive tree, Israel. When Israel was set aside by God, because of their unbelief in Jesus Christ, everything in Acts associated with Israel was also set aside - the Church, the rapture, Paul's 1st 7 books which were written to both saved Jews and Gentiles, you name it. At least half of what the denominational churches teach as truth is Israel's truth and it has nothing to do with us Gentiles today. When Israel was set aside, the Salvation of God was taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles - Ac 28:28. That's how it stands today.

After Acts, Paul received special revelations from God (as he always did) and he wrote 7 new books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In these, a brand new Church was enacted, the Church Which is Christ's Body, Where Christ is the Head. Everything contained in these books had been hid in God since the world began, There was not a hint of any of it in the other 59 books. Since Israel does not exist today, in God's eyes, the Jews today must believe in Paul's gospel in 1Cor 15:1-4, to get saved, just like us. Essentially, today's church is a Gentile Church. For the first time in history, the Gentiles have their own blessings, Eph 1:3, and, unlike any people in the rest of the Bible, the new church covered ONLY in Paul's post-Acts books has a calling of spending eternity in Heaven. We're going where Christ presently sits at the right hand of God - compare Eph 1:20 with Eph 2:6. There are many other verses that show we will be in heave. Instead of the Jewish rapture, our resurrection in the Appearing.
Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory

If you don't SEE this, however, you don't get it. To see it is impossible if you still hang on to the OT, the Gospels, Acts, the rapture, and the Acts church. By this, I only mean those things that have to do with our hope, our calling, and the rules and directions. The only thing I know of that carries over Acts to after Acts is Paul's Good News in 1Cir 15:1-4.

The only person that has ever been resurrected was Jesus Christ. Everyone else who has ever died is still in the grave. NO ONE has ever yet gone to Heaven. Search and See.

 

[ViaCrucis]

After Acts, Paul received special revelations from God (as he always did) and he wrote 7 new books - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon. In these, a brand new Church was enacted, the Church Which is Christ's Body, Where Christ is the Head.

Oh, I see. So Paul gained new special revelations, not mentioned in Scripture, and gave these revelations in new books while he was under house arrest in Rome. Which is why Paul says the same things in Ephesians, Colossians, and Philippians as he does in Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, and Galatians.

I mean, after all, seeing as God turned away from Israel then we have no reason to believe that Jews and Gentiles are all united into the one and same Church would be mentioned in these letters as they were in, say, Romans. And we certainly shouldn't expect the Apostle to be advocating the importance of Holy Baptism any longer, after all Baptism was done away with right? Which is definitely why the Apostle doesn't mention the significance and importance of Baptism in Colossians 2 or Titus 3. I mean, the Apostle certainly wouldn't talk about how the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles has been eradicated in Christ Jesus and that He would make of two peoples one as he does in Ephesians. And he absolutely would never, ever say the same thing in Colossians that he did in Galatians where he declare that there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, for all are made one in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I mean, very obviously Paul preached a completely different and entirely new message in the seven letters you mention that can't be found in the rest of Paul's letters, or in the Acts, or in the four Gospels, or in the Catholic Epistles. I mean it's not like Peter says that the Gentiles who formerly were not a people are now a people in Christ.

I mean, how silly it must be to believe that from all eternity God has had one purpose for all of creation in Jesus Christ and that through Jesus Christ God would heal, save, and redeem the world; and that He began all of this by calling a certain man from Ur of the Chaldeans, and giving him the promise that there would come One promised and that through this One Abraham would become the father of many nations. And through the descendants of Abraham's grandson Jacob God would set the groundwork by calling together a people to a particular place, give them commandments, and send them Prophets all to point toward the coming of One who would be Savior of the world, of the line of David. And that this very One was, indeed, born of a Virgin in the City of David, even Christ the Lord, who would go to proclaim the coming of God's reign and turn every expectation of what God's power and authority looks like by not being a conqueror, but the Son of Man laying down His life. That the kingdom of God does not come with observation, but came manifest in a Galilean Carpenter preaching good news to the outcasts, the unwanted, and sinners that there is a God who this Jesus calls Father, who spoke through the patriarchs and prophets of old and by them proclaimed His coming. And that this God would desire to be Father to a rebellious creation who lifted a middle finger, but He nevertheless shows us His love that even though we are sinners, Christ died for us.

After all, that Christ would show us what the kingdom of God looks like by surrendering Himself in loving obedience to His Father--even to the point of the cross thereby emptying and pouring Himself out, not exploiting His own Godhead--and we behold that, indeed truly and really the greatest in God's kingdom is the least, for the least of the kingdom is indeed greater than John the Baptist. As He who is greatest is made least for our sakes. And that, indeed, we come entering into the kingdom by the grace of God, through new birth which we have received from a gracious and kind God who takes wretched sinners and declares them sons and daughters by clothing them with the righteousness of His Son. I mean--could you imagine how silly that would be if, indeed that were what the Bible taught?

Indeed, this is all quite silly. There clearly isn't a beautiful narrative of God's redemption showcased throughout the whole of the Biblical story that comes together and reaches climax in the coming of the Messiah; and Paul very obviously doesn't preach the same Gospel in one place and also the other. Very obviously there are many gospels, which is absolutely why in Galatians the Apostle says that if anyone, even if they or an angel declare a gospel other than the one they had heard from them already that such a one is anathema.

Which is definitely why we should receive another gospel other than the one Paul and the rest of the Apostles and which Christ our God Himself proclaimed in the flesh. I'm sure anathema is probably a good word and nothing at all to be concerned about.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ac28]

Oh, I see. So Paul gained new special revelations, not mentioned in Scripture, and gave these revelations in new books while he was under house arrest in Rome. Which is why Paul says the same things in Ephesians, Colossians, and Philippians as he does in Romans, 1&2 Corinthians, and Galatians.

I mean, after all, seeing as God turned away from Israel then we have no reason to believe that Jews and Gentiles are all united into the one and same Church would be mentioned in these letters as they were in, say, Romans. And we certainly shouldn't expect the Apostle to be advocating the importance of Holy Baptism any longer, after all Baptism was done away with right? Which is definitely why the Apostle doesn't mention the significance and importance of Baptism in Colossians 2 or Titus 3. I mean, the Apostle certainly wouldn't talk about how the dividing wall between Jews and Gentiles has been eradicated in Christ Jesus and that He would make of two peoples one as he does in Ephesians. And he absolutely would never, ever say the same thing in Colossians that he did in Galatians where he declare that there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, for all are made one in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I mean, very obviously Paul preached a completely different and entirely new message in the seven letters you mention that can't be found in the rest of Paul's letters, or in the Acts, or in the four Gospels, or in the Catholic Epistles. I mean it's not like Peter says that the Gentiles who formerly were not a people are now a people in Christ.

I mean, how silly it must be to believe that from all eternity God has had one purpose for all of creation in Jesus Christ and that through Jesus Christ God would heal, save, and redeem the world; and that He began all of this by calling a certain man from Ur of the Chaldeans, and giving him the promise that there would come One promised and that through this One Abraham would become the father of many nations. And through the descendants of Abraham's grandson Jacob God would set the groundwork by calling together a people to a particular place, give them commandments, and send them Prophets all to point toward the coming of One who would be Savior of the world, of the line of David. And that this very One was, indeed, born of a Virgin in the City of David, even Christ the Lord, who would go to proclaim the coming of God's reign and turn every expectation of what God's power and authority looks like by not being a conqueror, but the Son of Man laying down His life. That the kingdom of God does not come with observation, but came manifest in a Galilean Carpenter preaching good news to the outcasts, the unwanted, and sinners that there is a God who this Jesus calls Father, who spoke through the patriarchs and prophets of old and by them proclaimed His coming. And that this God would desire to be Father to a rebellious creation who lifted a middle finger, but He nevertheless shows us His love that even though we are sinners, Christ died for us.

After all, that Christ would show us what the kingdom of God looks like by surrendering Himself in loving obedience to His Father--even to the point of the cross thereby emptying and pouring Himself out, not exploiting His own Godhead--and we behold that, indeed truly and really the greatest in God's kingdom is the least, for the least of the kingdom is indeed greater than John the Baptist. As He who is greatest is made least for our sakes. And that, indeed, we come entering into the kingdom by the grace of God, through new birth which we have received from a gracious and kind God who takes wretched sinners and declares them sons and daughters by clothing them with the righteousness of His Son. I mean--could you imagine how silly that would be if, indeed that were what the Bible taught?

Indeed, this is all quite silly. There clearly isn't a beautiful narrative of God's redemption showcased throughout the whole of the Biblical story that comes together and reaches climax in the coming of the Messiah; and Paul very obviously doesn't preach the same Gospel in one place and also the other. Very obviously there are many gospels, which is absolutely why in Galatians the Apostle says that if anyone, even if they or an angel declare a gospel other than the one they had heard from them already that such a one is anathema.

Which is definitely why we should receive another gospel other than the one Paul and the rest of the Apostles and which Christ our God Himself proclaimed in the flesh. I'm sure anathema is probably a good word and nothing at all to be concerned about.

-CryptoLutheran

Paul's Special Revelations from the Lord, mentioned in scripture. There is no record of anyone else getting these revelations. They started on the Damascus Road.

1Co 14:6
Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

2Cor 12:1
It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2Cor 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Gal 1:2
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal 2:2
And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Eph 3:3
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

These are just the revelations we know about. They started on the Damascus Road. The last one, Eph 3:3 pertains to The Mystery, which includes about everything new in Paul's last 7 books.
_________________________________________________________
The Mystery:
Col 1:25-27
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The word fulfil in vs 25 means fill full, or complete. This 2000 year Dispensation that started in Ac 28:28 completed the Word of God to us Humans. We now have the complete scriptures. That's all we get. The Mystery had been hidden IN GOD forever, vs 26, until Paul made it known after Acts 28:28. In vs 27, our hope (resurrection) is in Glory, which is above the Heavens, according to Ps 8:1.

_________________________________________

Any doctrinal difference between Acts and After-Acts would prove that Paul's Acts epistles were for a dispensation than his post-Acts epistles. There are many, but this one is a huge one, the clincher, The word conversation means citizenship - see Strong's. No one during Acts

Phil 3:20
For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Then compare Eph 1:20 with Eph 2:6, below. You'll see that We are raised up to where Christ was raised up and now sits at the right hand of God. The phrase, "heavenly places" means the super-heavens or far above all heavens - Note Eph 4:10 below


Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.

_________________________________________________

In vs 4 below, the "Appearing", in vs 4 below, is our rapture.

Col 3:1-4
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

__________________________________________________________

No one during Acts had a hope of Heaven. At best, they had a hope of the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven and attaches to the New Earth. The New Jerusalem is not Heaven and it certainly isn't Far above All Heavens, where I will will be when Christ, who is presently hid in God, makes His first appearance to His creation.

Also, the churches in Acts and After-Acts are different. The body of believers in Acts were all associated with Israel, in that all the Gentiles in the church were grafted into Israel. There hope is in the New Jerusalem, not Heaven. That church is the Bride. The church which isChrist's actual Body, Where Christ is the Head, make up the Bridegroom

Two things that are different are not the same.

__________________________________________________________

The Kingdom of Heaven will be an earthly Kingdom that Christ rules from Heaven. I believe it will be the next happening after this present Gentile dispensation ends which, as a pure guess, will be either 2063 or 2070. It is the one the Apostles asked about in Ac 1:6. Their question was a correct one in that this Kingdom would be restored to Israel. Christ didn't correct them, but essentially said that He couldn't tell them when it would be restored. After the K of H (say, 700 years long), I see the tribulation and then the Millennium, where Christ will be here ruling on earth. Since I am judicially part of His body, I will be with Him wherever He goes.

The Kingdom of God is more encompassing. It will encompass the entire universe when God is all in all. In the Bible, though, it sometimes is synonymous with the Kingdom of Heaven, sometimes as the Kingdom in Paul's last 7, and sometimes all-encompassing. I guess one could say the K of H is all K of G, but the K of G is not all K of H.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Listen to Jesus in John 3:
You must be born again from above...spiritually changed.
This is explained in Ephesians 2.

 

[Ron Gurley]

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

 

[Ron Gurley]

1 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

IN Christ = spiritually changed

 

[Ron Gurley]

13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13

Spiritual baptism changes everything. Our spirits have been made acceptable to God...reconciliation.

 

[ac28]

Listen to Jesus in John 3:
You must be born again from above...spiritually changed.
This is explained in Ephesians 2.

Nowhere in scripture, that I know of, does it directly associate being born again with salvation. Being born again, of water and Spirit, was the ticket needed for Jews to enter their promised earthly Kingdom of Heaven. I believe the water and Spirit part were water baptism and Spirit baptism. It was taught by Christ and the 12 during the Gospels and by the 12 and probably Paul during Acts. At the end of Acts, when the salvation of God was passed from Israel to the Gentiles and Israel, as a nation, ceased to be God's chosen people, temporarily, the hope of Israel's earthly Kingdom also ceased, along with being born again.

As far as what pertains to us today, regarding our hope, calling, rules, and directions, being born again doesn't apply to us. What does apply to us Gentiles during this 2000 year Gentile period we're in, where Israel doesn't exist, in God's eyes, are Paul's last 7 books. Nowhere in these books, including Ephesians, are the words, born again, either said or implied. The people in Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, and Philemon, all written after Acts, are the only people in the entire Bible to have a calling to spend eternity in Heaven. Those 7 books are the only ones in the Bible that are Truth For Today.

The salvation and calling doctrine in the other 59 books all apply to Israel and those few saved Gentiles during Acts, who were grafted into Israel and were, therefore, part of Israel. During the 2000 year period from Gen 12 through the end of Acts, everything was Israel. The only callings during that period were the Land, or the New Jerusalem, neither of which are Heaven. Nothing in that period, concerning our hope or calling, including being born again, and 100% of the Jewish stuff that you've been taught all your life in the churches, including the rapture, applies to anyone today. Therefore, any quotes you give from the Gospels, Acts, the 12, or any other source that is 100% Israel, count as nothing. And, your reference to Eph 2, in an attempt to prove that being born again is for us Gentiles, is completely wrong and meaningless.

If you obeyed God and rightly divided His Word, 2Tim 2:15, you would understand the Bible. If you don't, you know nothing, except your salvation. It's that cut and dried. Of course, salvation is the most important thing but, beyond that, you'll never go to Heaven unless you obey 2Tim 2:15. According to that verse, if you did rightly divide, you would be approved unto God. As it stands now, since you obviously don't rightly divide, you are not approved unto God. This has nothing to do with salvation. God just knows that, the ONLY WAY to eliminate confusion, contradictions, and to truly understand scripture is to rightly divide or correctly cut God's Word. If you don't rightly divide, understanding scripture is totally impossible. And, the only thing necessary to correctly cut and divide is the separation of what belongs to Israel from what belongs to today's Gentiles - You and Me. Where you cut the scriptures is very important. You must choose a place where it's all Israel on one side of the cut and all Gentile on the other side. There is only one place where that is true - Acts 28:28, the very end of Acts. Everything before is Israel and everything after is Gentile (Paul's last 7 books). So, if you want to be approved until God and spend eternity in Heaven, you'll eliminate every doctrine from your mind written before the end of Acts, that concerns your hope, calling, and rules, and only be concerned with what is written in Paul's last 7 books. Only in those does Heaven exist for you.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Galatians 4:29
But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also