Born Again

[chris murray]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

 

[HereIStand]

The phrase is man made. Having a personal faith is needed though.

 

[chris murray]

It seems a great deal of modern Christianity or the Evangelical movement specifically are virtually 100% word of man and this includes the oft edited King James Bible which, if you believe in sola scriptura no editing EVER can take the place of original text. Is that a fair interpretation?

 

[ViaCrucis]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

Christ speaks of the new birth in the third chapter of the Gospel of John. The new birth is, in theological terms, regeneration.

I'm somewhat surprised that, as a Catholic, you aren't familiar with this. Jesus says in John 3:5 that the new birth is by water and the Spirit:

-CryptoLutheran

 

[chris murray]

I am very familiar yet I believe non Catholics are sadly misguided and misinformed as to what they think "born again" or "saved" means.

 

[chris murray]

Can a soul be born again multiple times?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I am very familiar yet I believe non Catholics are sadly misguided and misinformed as to what they think "born again" or "saved" means.

Then this discussion probably is better in General Theology, which you can find by clicking this link: General Theology

This area is for introductions, where as General Theology is for discussing/debating theology.

-cryptoLutheran

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Can a soul be born again multiple times?

No -- only takes once to be sealed.

One is good forever but, had better see some real satification happening in ones life or may be false conversion.

M-Bob
M-Bob

 

[chris murray]

I see so no one really knows if they are "born again" until their human life ends. It could be a "false conversion" I am to understand. Is this in the scriptures anywhere?

 

[Mountainmanbob]

In the scriptures that says to examine yourself.

It also says to finish the good race.

I've known many that seemed to be Christians only to fall out of the race before dying.

M-Bob

 

[chris murray]

My point is being "saved" or "born again" is a man made philosophy NOT a matter of faith and morals. Preachers, teachers and others have grasped one phrase from one of the Gospels and built an entire false religion around it and, as a result, there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity and it grows daily.

 

[HereIStand]

My point is being "saved" or "born again" is a man made philosophy NOT a matter of faith and morals. Preachers, teachers and others have grasped one phrase from one of the Gospels and built an entire false religion around it and, as a result, there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity and it grows daily.

The language of a personal relationship with Christ is modern and man made to a degree, but it's not necessarily contrary to the Bible. The language of being saved and born again is Scriptural. Born again is also translated as "born from above." It's something that occurs in us. But God places a person in the right circumstances and location to receive this new birth and act on it.

 

[chris murray]

So, if a man or woman claims to be "born again" or "saved" then subsequently marries and divorces are they still "born again and saved"?

 

[Dave G.]

My point is being "saved" or "born again" is a man made philosophy NOT a matter of faith and morals. Preachers, teachers and others have grasped one phrase from one of the Gospels and built an entire false religion around it and, as a result, there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity and it grows daily.

Are you trying to determine if you are in the right camp or are you trying to say something ?

 

[chris murray]

I am in the right camp but I am fascinated at how much humanism has infected the protestant sects of Christianity. It is a fair question unless you cannot brook any questions of modern dogma of the 40,000 sects of protestantism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My question is simple yet requires much thought. If a person is born again they then become saved, inseparable from God is this the correct interpretation? In order to do so I must accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior? Is this exact wording based on the scripture or is the phrase "accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior" a man made phrase not actually found in scripture anywhere?

There are verses that infer that we accept Christ (GOD) into our hearts or lives as a part of Him being our Savior.

Jesus says,

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20).

"...If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." (John 6:56).

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

Paul says,

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love." (Ephesians 3:17).

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." (2 Corinthians 6:16).

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27).

John says,

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him." (1 John 4:16).

In addition, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

Furthermore, who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

My point is being "saved" or "born again" is a man made philosophy NOT a matter of faith and morals. Preachers, teachers and others have grasped one phrase from one of the Gospels and built an entire false religion around it and, as a result, there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity and it grows daily.

A nitpick: The usual number is generally ~30,000, but this number is arrived at by defining "denomination" differently than most do. For example, to get this number Latin Rite Catholics, Melkite Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Maronite Catholics (etc) are all counted as separate denominations. Similarly, there are different denominations counted simply based on geographic area, I'm ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), this is a particular expression of Lutheranism in the US, but we are in communion with other Lutherans around the world. Yes, the ELCA is a denomination, but it's not a denomination in schism with Lutherans around the world, the same is true of mainline Protestant bodies of many sorts. Likewise defined as "denominations" are the various autocephelous jurisdictions of Eastern Orthodoxy, thus the Russian Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, Romanian Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Church in America (etc) are all counted as separate denominations even though they are part of one Church and communion: Eastern Orthodoxy.

In fact, that large number breaks down to there being 242 denominations of Catholicism.

We Need to Stop Saying That There Are 33,000 Protestant Denominations

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It seems a great deal of modern Christianity or the Evangelical movement specifically are virtually 100% word of man and this includes the oft edited King James Bible which, if you believe in sola scriptura no editing EVER can take the place of original text. Is that a fair interpretation?

We will only be judged by God's Word.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

Also, the KJV is proven to show itself to be divine in many ways.

Try watching the King James Code by Mike Hoggard on YouTube.
Granted, you have to ignore his teaching on OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). But he does show you facts that show the KJV is a divine book (unlike corrupted Modern Versions that have the devil's name placed in them). Granted, do not get me wrong. I use Modern Translations. I use them to confirm what the KJV is saying sometimes (Because it was written in 1600's English).

 

[Dave G.]

My point is being "saved" or "born again" is a man made philosophy NOT a matter of faith and morals. Preachers, teachers and others have grasped one phrase from one of the Gospels and built an entire false religion around it and, as a result, there are over 40,000 sects of Christianity and it grows daily.

THe wording is modern but the facts are the facts from scripture. Here is just one example from your own bible version :
2 Corinthians 5:17 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
17 If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new.

Here is a good piece of scripture for you, same bible and it's from John the third chapter:

5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.

7 Wonder not, that I said to thee, you must be born again.

8 The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am very familiar yet I believe non Catholics are sadly misguided and misinformed as to what they think "born again" or "saved" means.

Being born again means you are spiritually regenerated. It is comparable to our physical birth. We were born rather quickly. It is the same with the Spirit. A person who accepts Jesus as their Savior for real by way of prayer and seeking His forgiveness by the Word of God will have a change of heart and know they are saved. It will be like a light had went on within them. They will have a new heart with new desires.