Born Again

[chris murray]

There are verses that infer that we accept Christ (GOD) into our hearts or lives as a part of Him being our Savior.

Jesus says,

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Revelation 3:20).

"...If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." (John 14:23).

Paul says,

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love." (Ephesians 3:17).

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." (2 Corinthians 6:16).

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27).

John says,

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him." (1 John 4:16).

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." (John 6:56).

"If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

In addition, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.

#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.

#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).

#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

#4. Psalms 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).

#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.

#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.

Furthermore, who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

That was a huge waste of time. You did not address the basic question but you sure can cut and paste!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see so no one really knows if they are "born again" until their human life ends. It could be a "false conversion" I am to understand. Is this in the scriptures anywhere?

1 John 2:3 says that if we find we are keeping his commandments, we can say we know Him (Jesus). He that says he knows Him (Jesus) and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth (Jesus) is not in them (1 John 2:4). Where do these commands come from? A pope? A guy who had some strange vision in the past 30 years? Or do these commands come from God's Holy Word that has proven itself to be a divine book over and over again? I go with God's Word because I know there are tons of evidences that back up the Bible in being divine. You can take the chance on church tradition if you like, but where's the beef or the evidences to show that they are also divine and a part of God's Holy Word?

 

[chris murray]

None of that is directed in the bible. It is man made.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That was a huge waste of time. You did not address the basic question but you sure can cut and paste!

Posting God's Word is never a waste of time. God's Word never returns void. Also, these list of verses are from my own personal study of God's Word. I did not take them from any article (if that is what you were thinking).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

None of that is directed in the bible. It is man made.

So you believe that the verses I posted to you are man made?

 

[chris murray]

1 John 2:3 says that if we find we are keeping his commandments, we can say we know Him (Jesus). He that says he knows Him (Jesus) and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth (Jesus) is not in them (1 John 2;4). Where do these commands come from? A pope? A guy who had some strange vision in the past 30 years? Or do these commands come from God's Holy Word that has proven itself to be a divine book over and over again? I go with God's Word because I know there are tons of evidences that back up the Bible in being divine. You can take the chance on church tradition if you like, but where's the beef or the evidences to show that they are also divine and a part of God's Holy Word?

You obviously cannot comprehend what you have not read. Who was Christ addressing when he named Simon Peter and Peter means rock, on this rock I build my church. What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven? Paraphrased but it is the creation by Christ of the office of Pope.

 

[W2L]

You obviously cannot comprehend what you have not read. Who was Christ addressing when he named Simon Peter and Peter means rock, on this rock I build my church. What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven? Paraphrased but it is the creation by Christ of the office of Pope.

I believe the Lord was refering to the Spirit as the Rock. Right after he calls Peter the Rock He then calls him Satan. HOw can peter be Satan?

 

[chris murray]

So you believe that the verses I posted to you are man made?

No the verse you posted is unrelated to the underly

 

[chris murray]

I believe the Lord was refering to the Spirit as the Rock. Right after he calls Peter the Rock He then calls him Satan. HOw can peter be Satan?

In your King James maybe but there is no Nihilobstat or Imprimatur in your book. Incorrect, in other words on every page.

 

[W2L]

In your King James maybe but there is no Nihilobstat or Imprimatur in your book. Incorrect, in other words on every page.

Please speak English. What do you mean? Thank you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No the verse you posted is unrelated to the underly

Care to prove that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You obviously cannot comprehend what you have not read. Who was Christ addressing when he named Simon Peter and Peter means rock, on this rock I build my church. What you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven? Paraphrased but it is the creation by Christ of the office of Pope.

Show me in Scripture where Jesus was referring to one office like position alone when He said this?

 

[HereIStand]

A nitpick: The usual number is generally ~30,000, but this number is arrived at by defining "denomination" differently than most do. For example, to get this number Latin Rite Catholics, Melkite Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, Maronite Catholics (etc) are all counted as separate denominations. Similarly, there are different denominations counted simply based on geographic area, I'm ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America), this is a particular expression of Lutheranism in the US, but we are in communion with other Lutherans around the world. Yes, the ELCA is a denomination, but it's not a denomination in schism with Lutherans around the world, the same is true of mainline Protestant bodies of many sorts. Likewise defined as "denominations" are the various autocephelous jurisdictions of Eastern Orthodoxy, thus the Russian Orthodox Church, Greek Orthodox Church, Romanian Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Church in America (etc) are all counted as separate denominations even though they are part of one Church and communion: Eastern Orthodoxy.

In fact, that large number breaks down to there being 242 denominations of Catholicism.

We Need to Stop Saying That There Are 33,000 Protestant Denominations

-CryptoLutheran

I've heard the claim that Protestant are splintered into tens of thousands of denominations. Where are all these thousands of denominations? In actuality, there are a limited number of denominations represented on CF and in a standard phone book.

 

[Dave G.]

I had a feeling that this is where this was headed more or less. Well Chris, welcome to the forum anyway.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Straight from the Book. A lot of good scripture covered here.
M-Bob

 

[Dave G.]

Straight from the Book. A lot of good scripture covered here.
M-Bob

Chris isn't going to listen to this Bob, this is not coming from "The Church" so it's all lies to him.

Ah but I'll listen to it, I want to hear what John has to say on this,it might be a video I haven't heard from him before !

 

[Truthfrees]

mod hat

moving to general theology as per sop

 

[Phil 1:21]

Are you trying to determine if you are in the right camp or are you trying to say something ?

It's just another "Protestants are heretics" thread. These seem to pop up every few days, usually by "new" members (quotes intentional). Good luck.

 

[Knee V]

The context of regeneration/being born again throughout the New Testament is water baptism. It is difficult to get more explicit than Paul in Romans 6. When one is baptized into Christ, one enters into His death, and when one is raised from the water one is raised with Christ to new life. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." The whole rest of that chapter which talks about walking in newness of life is all in the context of having already established that that begins with and is rooted in our baptism.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The context of regeneration/being born again throughout the New Testament is water baptism. It is difficult to get more explicit than Paul in Romans 6. When one is baptized into Christ, one enters into His death, and when one is raised from the water one is raised with Christ to new life. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." The whole rest of that chapter which talks about walking in newness of life is all in the context of having already established that that begins with and is rooted in our baptism.

Paul is even more explicit in Titus 3:5, he specifically speaks of "the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit."

It's simply what has always been taught and believed.

-CryptoLutheran