BLM says Jesus doesn't love us.

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civilwarbuff

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Quartermaine then applied the same reasoning to homosexuality.
However his reasoning was completely incorrect because, as you well know, homosexuality is condemned even for those under grace; my post explicitly links to those passages.
if you were intending to show that God is not for homosexuality, since Quartermaine never implied God is.
Which is a good move since support for homosexuality on these threads is against forum rules.
If he's on the wrong side how are you not?
Your reasoning lacks any basis in fact.
 
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civilwarbuff

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I would rather you understand that your articulation is unsound.
It is perfectly sound; the left, as applied in this forum, refers to the liberal/progressive wing of the democratic party. A fact which you are completely aware of......
You can't use the term left as a label meaning against Christ or against God.
When they stand in opposition to God's word I most certainly can. And support of homosexuality, to name just one, is in opposition to God's word.
 
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childeye 2

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I never said that they were. Reread my post.
Respectfully the context we're responding to is found here: "Agreed but since Christianity is viewed as a legitimate target by the left that is not likely to happen....."
 
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childeye 2

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However his reasoning was completely incorrect because, as you well know, homosexuality is condemned even for those under grace; my post explicitly links to those passages.
Calling something an abomination is not the same as condemnation. Moreover, the passages are not singling out homosexuality as being unrighteous but all manners of sin. Romans 1 is very relevant to this topic because it shows how and why all manifestations of lust occurred concluding in Romans 2:1 stating why no one has the right to condemn anyone.
 
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Quartermaine

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In the New Testament (NT), there are at least three passages that refer to homosexual activity: Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:9–10. A fourth passage, Jude 1:7, is often interpreted as referring to homosexuality. Jesus discusses marriage only in a heterosexual context when he cites the Book of Genesis during a discussion of marriage (Matthew 19:4–6 and Mark 10:6–9).

Appears that once more you are on the wrong side.....
and how many refer to it as an abomination?
 
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childeye 2

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It is perfectly sound; the left, as applied in this forum, refers to the liberal/progressive wing of the democratic party. A fact which you are completely aware of......
That has nothing to do with it. Progressive and liberal do not mean anti-Christian nor pro-sin.

When they stand in opposition to God's word I most certainly can. And support of homosexuality, to name just one, is in opposition to God's word.
Respectfully, I don't think you understand. The right is just as capable of being in opposition to God's Word as the left. Do you think there are no Republican homosexuals, adulterers or fornicators? If yes, then you're misappropriating the left/right dichotomy. If no, then you're deceived because there are.

The center is God's Word and the left and right are subjective views of God's Word. Consider the shape of the Menorah, and how the flames aligned opposite of one another share the same source of oil. It is said that when the oil ran low the flames extinguished in a certain order leaving the center one still shining. Consider the mercy seat with two Cherubim facing one another with mercy in the middle.
 
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civilwarbuff

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childeye 2

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Since when?
Since there is no condemnation in Christ because sin is condemned in the flesh so that we may live through the Spirit of Christ.
But it is SPECIFICALLY named.....there is a reason for that.....
The reason isn't so that we can specifically condemn them because we're not one.
 
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Quartermaine

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In the New Testament (NT), there are at least three passages that refer to homosexual activity: Romans 1:26–27,
In the original Greek, the phrase for “vile affliction” áthlia thlípsi does not mean "passions" or "lust" as people experienced in normal, day-to-day living -- the type of emotion that one encounters in a marriage or sexually active relationship. It refers to the "frenzied state of mind that many ancient mystery cults induced in worshipers by means of wine, drugs and music."

“natural” Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysin - agreeing with the true self, not to go against the laws of nature. If Paul had meant ‘go against the law of nature’ he would have said ενάντια στο νόμο. So Paul is saying that the acts being engaged in were against the nature of that person.

Please remember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be natural. It was considered to be just the way some people are. What would have been seen as unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature and pretend to be something one is not. This going against one’s nature in pursuit of sex is referred to as being unnatural by many writers of the era.

Later in Romans 11:24 Paul uses paraphysin again where he describes God engaging in uncharacteristic ways. If you want to read Romans 1:27 as people acting against the laws of nature then in Romans 11:24 God would also be acting ageist the laws of nature… Which is impossible.


Romans 1:27 about women with a heterosexual orientation, who had previously engaged in only heterosexual sex, who had "exchanged" their normal/inborn orientation for same-sex activities. That is, they deviated from their heterosexual orientation and engaged in sexual behavior with other women. Similarly, he describes men with a heterosexual orientation who had "abandoned" their normal/inborn behaviors and engaged in same-sex activities. In both cases, he is describing individuals with a heterosexual orientation, who were engaging in same-sex behavior -- in violation of their natural desires.


Romans 1:26-27 is a condemnation of being untrue to yourself. it is a pretty damming condemnation of ex-gay ministries

1 Corinthians 6:9–10,
the claim it is a condemnation of homosexuality is pretty modern and is not supported in any way. it all boils down to the translation of a single word. 'arsenokoites'. For most of the history of Christianity arsenokoites was translated to mean masturbation, the most recent bible to make this translation was 1968.

Historically it has also been translated to mean kidnappers, prostitutes, practitioners of other religions, rapists and fathers who sexually molest their daughters.

The claim that arsenokoites means homosexual is made by maintaining that the meaning of this compound word is derived from the meaning of its two root words: arseno (man or men) and koitai (bed). This approach is linguistically invalid. Deconstructing compounds is difficult no matter what language one uses. One can’t just define a compound word by taking it apart, getting the meanings of its component parts, and then assuming, with no supporting evidence, that the meaning of the longer word is a simple combination of its component parts. To "understand" does not mean to "stand under." In fact, nothing about the meaning of understand has anything to do with standing or being under anything. In the same way 'butterfly' doesn't mean levitating dairy products or pineapple is not an apple or in any way an evergreen plant

This phenomenon of language is sometimes even more obvious with terms that designate social roles, since the nature of the roles themselves often changes over time and becomes separated from any original reference. None of us, for example, takes the word "chairman" to mean a man who sits in a chair. Butterball is not a game ball made of butter. And so on.

Therefore a claim that the translation of arsenokoites that is derived solely from its components are indefensible. Using this method it would be equally valid to claim that when using the word arsenokoites Paul was condemning the lazy or even the bed making industry.

there have been found just over 90 uses of the word arsenokoites in the writings of Paul's contemporaries and not one of them can be construed to mean homosexual.



and 1 Timothy 1:9–10.
CHristian forms lists this passage as: "as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

A fourth passage, Jude 1:7, is often interpreted as referring to homosexuality.
Jude 1:7 refers to "strange flesh"
Strange flesh is clearly defined in Gen 6. Here we read of a time when the angles or "sons of God" cohabited with the "daughters of man", resulting in a strange progeny called in the Hebrew "nephilim”.

Strange flesh refers to sexual activity between angels and humans and condemned because it is concourse between two distinct orders of creation.


Jesus discusses marriage only in a heterosexual context when he cites the Book of Genesis during a discussion of marriage (Matthew 19:4–6 and Mark 10:6–9).
So who did Jesus marry?

Appears that once more you are on the wrong side.....
it appears you don't know your bible
 
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civilwarbuff

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Progressive and liberal do not mean anti-Christian nor pro-sin.
It does when that is what is promoted or pushed for normalization. If homosexuality is pushed by the left/liberal/progressive elements in society it does mean anti-Christian and pro-sin.
Respectfully, I don't think you understand. The right is just as capable of being in opposition to God's Word as the left. Do you think there are no Republican homosexuals, adulterers or fornicators? If yes, then you're misappropriating the left/right dichotomy. If no, then you're deceived because there are.
Well, since you want to go politics please show me where in the Republican platform where it supports any "Republican homosexuals, adulterers or fornicators " ? I, OTOH, can point out specifically where in the Democratic platform the LGBT(etc) is actively supported....but you already knew that didn't you?
https://democrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf
page 17
 
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civilwarbuff

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Since there is no condemnation in Christ because sin is condemned in the flesh so that we may live through the Spirit of Christ.
Which is great for Christians but what about those that actively support and push sin?...like those who want to normalize homosexuality?
The reason isn't so that we can specifically condemn them because we're not one.
Then who is to condemn the behavior?.....
 
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Quartermaine

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So you are following that lead and tacking that way also, huh? Parsing words is never a good way to convince people of your position.
yep, none of the passages refers to homosexuality as an abomination
 
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civilwarbuff

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In the original Greek, the phrase for “vile affliction” áthlia thlípsi does not mean "passions" or "lust" as people experienced in normal, day-to-day living -- the type of emotion that one encounters in a marriage or sexually active relationship. It refers to the "frenzied state of mind that many ancient mystery cults induced in worshipers by means of wine, drugs and music."

“natural” Paul specifically used the Greek word paraphysin - agreeing with the true self, not to go against the laws of nature. If Paul had meant ‘go against the law of nature’ he would have said ενάντια στο νόμο. So Paul is saying that the acts being engaged in were against the nature of that person.

Please remember that the society Paul is writing to, both Roman and Greek, considered homosexuality be natural. It was considered to be just the way some people are. What would have been seen as unnatural for Paul’s audience would have been to force oneself to go against one’s own nature and pretend to be something one is not. This going against one’s nature in pursuit of sex is referred to as being unnatural by many writers of the era.

Later in Romans 11:24 Paul uses paraphysin again where he describes God engaging in uncharacteristic ways. If you want to read Romans 1:27 as people acting against the laws of nature then in Romans 11:24 God would also be acting ageist the laws of nature… Which is impossible.


Romans 1:27 about women with a heterosexual orientation, who had previously engaged in only heterosexual sex, who had "exchanged" their normal/inborn orientation for same-sex activities. That is, they deviated from their heterosexual orientation and engaged in sexual behavior with other women. Similarly, he describes men with a heterosexual orientation who had "abandoned" their normal/inborn behaviors and engaged in same-sex activities. In both cases, he is describing individuals with a heterosexual orientation, who were engaging in same-sex behavior -- in violation of their natural desires.


Romans 1:26-27 is a condemnation of being untrue to yourself. it is a pretty damming condemnation of ex-gay ministries

the claim it is a condemnation of homosexuality is pretty modern and is not supported in any way. it all boils down to the translation of a single word. 'arsenokoites'. For most of the history of Christianity arsenokoites was translated to mean masturbation, the most recent bible to make this translation was 1968.

Historically it has also been translated to mean kidnappers, prostitutes, practitioners of other religions, rapists and fathers who sexually molest their daughters.

The claim that arsenokoites means homosexual is made by maintaining that the meaning of this compound word is derived from the meaning of its two root words: arseno (man or men) and koitai (bed). This approach is linguistically invalid. Deconstructing compounds is difficult no matter what language one uses. One can’t just define a compound word by taking it apart, getting the meanings of its component parts, and then assuming, with no supporting evidence, that the meaning of the longer word is a simple combination of its component parts. To "understand" does not mean to "stand under." In fact, nothing about the meaning of understand has anything to do with standing or being under anything. In the same way 'butterfly' doesn't mean levitating dairy products or pineapple is not an apple or in any way an evergreen plant

This phenomenon of language is sometimes even more obvious with terms that designate social roles, since the nature of the roles themselves often changes over time and becomes separated from any original reference. None of us, for example, takes the word "chairman" to mean a man who sits in a chair. Butterball is not a game ball made of butter. And so on.

Therefore a claim that the translation of arsenokoites that is derived solely from its components are indefensible. Using this method it would be equally valid to claim that when using the word arsenokoites Paul was condemning the lazy or even the bed making industry.

there have been found just over 90 uses of the word arsenokoites in the writings of Paul's contemporaries and not one of them can be construed to man homosexual.



CHristian forms lists this passage as: "as knowing this, that law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and unruly, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

Jude 1:7 refers to "strange flesh"
Strange flesh is clearly defined in Gen 6. Here we read of a time when the angles or "sons of God" cohabited with the "daughters of man", resulting in a strange progeny called in the Hebrew "nephilim”.

Strange flesh refers to sexual activity between angels and humans and condemned because it is concourse between two distinct orders of creation.
Sorry but reinterpreting Scripture does not carry any weight here.....
So who did Jesus marry?
So, are you of that persuasion?
 
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Quartermaine

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Sorry but reinterpreting Scripture does not carry any weight here.....
the point is that your interpretation is without foundation.

So, are you of that persuasion?
I am opposed to racism in all its forms. Do you think that makes me black?
 
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civilwarbuff

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Quartermaine

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