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Bible says science cannot possibly know how many years since creation

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by dad, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    Yeah, and he said he'd return ages ago. You're just one of many people who have tried to explain away this failed prediction by claiming it doesn't mean what it actually says.
     
  2. dad

    dad Undefeated! Supporter

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    The real world for others on earth does not consist of what you would like to select as real. Believers accept real evidences in their lives, which are completely beyond your capability to dissect. The evidences of history you deny. Spirits and God you deny. Basically whatever you wish to accept you do and the rest you claim is not real by baseless denial.
    In a similar way, science cannot come to any knowledge of the truth or know the end or the beginning.
     
  3. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    Perhaps, but if what you claim is real can't be shown to be true in any objective sense, then there's no reason to accept it at all, is there?

    A believer's beliefs do not become true just because they happen to believe them really strongly.

    Old stories are not evidence. You have totally failed to show how they can be verified.

    For the same reason I deny fairies. There is no good evidence that is verifiable that they exist.

    You are describing yourself, not me. I will accept ANYTHING, you just have to give me decent evidence for it.

    What are you talking about science being similar to what you've been discussing? Your arguments consist of little more than repeating baseless claims and insisting old stories are true because they can be interpreted to agree with the stuff you've decided is true.
     
  4. dad

    dad Undefeated! Supporter

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    Billions of people through history and the present accept God and the spiritual because God made sense to them, and revealed Himself to them in ways they understood. God did not seem concerned with restricting His revelation to the limits or rules of science. Those who think He should or must have another think coming.

    How would you know? If we believe, and that results in God acting in ways that are very real, who are you to ignorantly and without any basis claim that He did not do so?
    Rising from the dead verified them.
    I look at reality and what actual reasons you may have for your denial. I have no reasons to deny spirits exist, both good and bad.

    Jesus said if we do what He asked He would make us know. Those who refuse can't know. Ask Him, He knows what you need.

    The quote in the bible was not a discussion, but a quote from God. They cannot know no matter what, nor can anyone else unless they ask God.
     
  5. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Jesus promised to return literally at an unknown time in the future. He promised that his spirit would return soon after he left which it did. He also warned about the coming destruction of Jerusalem which occurred in 70AD, all of which was further complicated by opocolytic writers and thinkers.

    I’m satisfied with it all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    Where did he say that his "spirit" would return? It appears that you are reinterpreting the Bible after the fact.
     
  7. Colter

    Colter Member

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    John 16:7

    But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    Acts 2 Version (NIV)
    The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost

    When the day of Pentecost had come they were all together in one place. And suddenly a sound came from heaven like the rush of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire, distributed as resting upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit…(Acts 2:1-4).
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    That does not support your claim. It looks like reinterpretation after the fact. That is the problem with vague language, it can be interpreted multiple ways. One assumes that the Bible is true and then reinterprets the Bible to make it look like it is so. Meanwhile the prophesy of Matthew 24 34 still looks like a failed prophesy.

    This is off track of the OP at any rate. For some reason a strained interpretation of a Bible verse means the OP thinks we cannot date the Big Bang, or so it appears. Though the Big Bang really has nothing to do with evolution so why even mention it?
     
  9. Colter

    Colter Member

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    It does support my claim, you just ignore it to fit your unbelief. Jesus said he would send "the spirit of truth" on a couple of occasions.

    Matthew 24 34 was the recollection of reports about things Jesus said concerning the fall of Jerusalem. I do not believe all of it was accurately recalled and contained intact in Matthew.

    Jerusalem did fall, some apostles did get out early but some of the other stuff was about the distant future.

    John 14:26
    New International Version
    But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    That is not the case since a straight forward reading of the Bible supports me. And Jesus did not come back after Jerusalem fell, and that was not all that was predicted.

    Let's not talk about the failures of the Bible since that is probably not appropriate for this part of the forum. Let's get back to the OP. Do you understand how scientists can put a date on the Big Bang, on the formation of the Earth and other events in our past?
     
  11. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    You really want to play the numbers game?

    Fine. There are more people who think Christianity is wrong than there are who think it is right.

    This makes no sense.

    You have to assume that God exists in order to conclude that it is the believer's belief that allows God to make himself real? Either you didn't actually pay attention to what I wrote, or your response is meaningless.

    Except the rising from the dead is part of the story. The story doesn't get to be both the claim and the proof.

    So what? You'll find that your reasoning is nowhere near enough to convince me of anything.

    Sounds like nothing more than people finding proof of their beliefs because they just blindly accept whatever they find that supports their beliefs. That doesn't make it true.

    And I've mentioned this many times. If you don't see why it's a problem then we are not able to have a rational conversation about what counts as evidence for anything.

    What are you talking about? I wasn't responding to a quote from the Bible. Are you incapable of keeping track of a discussion?
     
  12. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

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    That's great.

    Don't expect everyone else to share your position.
     
  13. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Would the sun go down if God stopped the earth's rotation?
     
  14. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Yes, I'm a theistic evolutionist. The OT story of creation is a creation of the Hebrew priest class for consumption by the average Bronze Age Israelite. It was a pseudo biographical story written in preacher speak. It was only after the return to Jerusalem from Babylon that later generations of the priest class began to claim "divine inspiration".

    There was no "big bang" event, the material universe is much older than the Big bang guestimates.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    What is your evidence for any of your beliefs? Calling the age of the universe a "guesstimate" puts the burden of proof on yourself. Claiming there was no Big Bang puts the burden of.proof upon yourself. You must have quite the education. Or were you merely speaking out of an inappropriate orifice?
     
  16. dad

    dad Undefeated! Supporter

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    The issue is not how many believe the truth. The issue is that when billions tried Jesus they found Scripture was true. Billions of test tubes all confirm the result. That doesn't mean there are not other experiments and tests going on as well. Many may want to try evil spirits, for example.


    It is my understanding that God does expect people to seek the truth, knock on the door...try to come to Him generally. He fills the hungry heart, and answers when we call unto Him.
    In this example, Jesus was talking to some religious folks that He knew had not and would not come to Him.

    John 5: 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

    Except you call anything you can't prove or disprove or deal with at all a story.

    Then have a good life I guess.

    To the made up of mind I understand things may sound a certain way in their heads to them.
    If you stick you fingers in live wires in a wall you get a shock. If you try God and His word, you get results. It is not rational to deny that someone got a shock for no reason, nor that they got results from testing Scripture.



    What are you talking about? I wasn't responding to a quote from the Bible. Are you incapable of keeping track of a discussion?[/QUOTE]
     
  17. Colter

    Colter Member

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    How old was the thing that exploded and made the universe? What existed before that? One explanation for the expanding universe is one that expands and contracts cyclically, giving the appearance of an explosion event. .
     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    That sounds like confirmation bias. A claim that a follower of any religion can make. It demonstrates that the testing was not proper. A proper test would ask "What would I expect to see if my beliefs were false?" . If you can think of a reasonable unbiased test that asks that question then you might have something.
     
  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

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    We don't know. And calling it an explosion is incorrect. Asking what happened before the Big Bang may be a nonsensical question. But you made the positive claims. This post was a dodge. You need to show reliable evidence for your claims.
     
  20. Colter

    Colter Member

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    The universe expands and contracts, giving the appearance of a recent expansion from the explosion of a small thing.
     
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