Bible says science cannot possibly know how many years since creation

[Subduction Zone]

What physical entity/object can exist before time, if not God?

Who knows? Why does any "physical entity" have to exist? You seem to think that some being had to have a hand in the beginning of our universe. I do not know of any reliable evidence for such a being.

That's your prerogative.

But when they take the attitude, "We don't know, therefore you don't know either," they've gone too far.

If you want to claim that you know then the burden of proof is upon you. If you cannot support your claim then by default you are supporting the "you don't know either" claim.

Like God?

Something demonstrable.

Does that not tell you there's more to this universe than meets the eye?

More to the universe than meets the eye does not even imply a god, much less is evidence for one.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not at all.

See my last post.

Sorry, that does not help you.

I think it goes:

"They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong."

Of what? God's existence?

If there was reliable evidence for a god rational people would believe. Why would a god play hide and go seek?

 

[AV1611VET]

I do not know of any reliable evidence for such a being.

Will cause-and-effect evidence suffice?

(That's the kind Jesus used to confirm His messiahship to John the Baptist.

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

If so, here you go:

1. Martyrs.
2. Churches and other edifices, including Christian schools.
3. Iconography & statuary, including symbols, drawings, and artwork.
4. The Bible and other books written about our LORD, including tracts.
5. Songs, hymns and carols venerating Jesus Christ.
6. Holidays such as Christmas and Easter.
7. Debates, programs, cartoons, and specials on TV.
8. Time divided into BC/AD.
9. Mottos such as IN GOD WE TRUST, and ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, and ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR.
10. Resistance by unbelievers who invest time and money to eradicate God from public view, including changing greetings such as MERRY CHRISTMAS to HAPPY HOLIDAYS and SEASONS GREETINGS.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe they exist too: as fallen angels.

The exception is Buddha, who was a mere man.

Nope, we are not talking about there existence in that form. Try again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Will cause-and-effect evidence suffice?

(That's the kind Jesus used to confirm His messiahship to John the Baptist.

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

If so, here you go:

1. Martyrs.

Sorry, there is no evidence of any more martyrs for your beliefs than for any others. That is not evidence.

2. Churches and other edifices, including Christian schools.

Misled people are not evidence.

3. Iconography & statuary, including symbols, drawings, and artwork.
4. The Bible and other books written about our LORD, including tracts.
5. Songs, hymns and carols venerating Jesus Christ.
6. Holidays such as Christmas and Easter.
7. Debates, programs, cartoons, and specials on TV.
8. Time divided into BC/AD.
9. Mottos such as IN GOD WE TRUST, and ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, and ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR.
10. Resistance by unbelievers who invest time and money to eradicate God from public view, including changing greetings such as MERRY CHRISTMAS to HAPPY HOLIDAYS and SEASONS GREETINGS.

To cut it short, no reliable evidence at all. Do you not even understand the concept?

 

[dad]

I believe they exist too: as fallen angels.

The exception is Buddha, who was a mere man.

Sounds right. (of course who knows what spirits influenced the little guy? ) But it seems like we have SZ here calling you and me a liar when we suggest that God impacted our lives.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, that does not help you.

I don't need help.

I'm already convinced.

If there was reliable evidence for a god rational people would believe.

To a point.

But the Bible shows people refusing to believe, even when God walked and talked among them.

They were referred to as "stiffnecked" and " hard-hearted."

Why would a god play hide and go seek?

He doesn't.

He's simply invisible to the five senses.

But He has given us a "sixth sense" that we may find Him.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sorry, there is no evidence of any more martyrs for your beliefs than for any others. That is not evidence.

You have evidence of God (my list) and fallen angels (their lists).

If you elevate their list to mine, you'll end up giving equal airtime to them; and end up not believing.

You can't, for instance, elevate Allah up to JEHOVAH.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Misled people are not evidence.

That's a sad commentary on Christian martyrs.

To cut it short, no reliable evidence at all. Do you not even understand the concept?

That's your prerogative to believe that.

All I can do is try.

 

[AV1611VET]

Sounds right. (of course who knows what spirits influenced the little guy? )

Ya.

You gotta wonder about people who leave their wife and child behind to go sit under a tree.

But it seems like we have SZ here calling you and me a liar when we suggest that God impacted our lives.

If he only knew.

 

[Colter]

Has the universe ever been observed contracting?

By God I suppose, but if it expands and contracts on 1 billion year cycles then there wouldn't be anyone around to observe it.

 

[dad]

By God I suppose, but if it expands and contracts on 1 billion year cycles then there wouldn't be anyone around to observe it.

Or not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds right. (of course who knows what spirits influenced the little guy? ) But it seems like we have SZ here calling you and me a liar when we suggest that God impacted our lives.

Where did I call you a liar? You are merely confused. You do not I is how to run a proper test and as a result you believe something that is not supported by objective evidence. That inability to test one's ideas properly is why you constantly lose debates. Perhaps if you learned a bit more about evidence you could actually win a debater once.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have evidence of God (my list) and fallen angels (their lists).

If you elevate their list to mine, you'll end up giving equal airtime to them; and end up not believing.

You can't, for instance, elevate Allah up to JEHOVAH.

Nope, you are only repeating the same errors that you always make.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Projection.

That's a sad commentary on Christian martyrs.

That's your prerogative to believe that.

All I can do is try.

There is no reliable evidence for Christian martyrs. They appear to be stories made up by the early Catholic Church. You really need to try harder.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't need help.

I'm already convinced.

That is why you are severely in need of help. There agreements in the Bible that we know did not happen. There are many Christians that realize this too.

To a point.

But the Bible shows people refusing to believe, even when God walked and talked among them.

They were referred to as "stiffnecked" and " hard-hearted."

Or that may simply be a tale in the Bible that never happened. Why make false claims about others that you cannot support? When one does so it looks as if they are breaking the Ninth Commandment.

He doesn't.

He's simply invisible to the five senses.

But He has given us a "sixth sense" that we may find Him.

If that is the case then there should be a reliable test for him. Why can't you or dad design such a test? Confirmation bias is never a valid test.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no reliable evidence for Christian martyrs. They appear to be stories made up by the early Catholic Church. You really need to try harder.

So Luke records that Herod Agrippa killed James ... and assuming that was a lie ... his son says to Paul:

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

 

[AV1611VET]

If that is the case then there should be a reliable test for him.

Already done:

Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Notice: "heart".

Not eyes, nose, or ears -- but heart.

 

[AV1611VET]

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So Luke records that Herod Agrippa killed James ... and assuming that was a lie ... his son says to Paul:

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

Why are you so quick to calling something a lie when the person is just wrong. The author of Luke made a huge error in his nativity story. He has Jesus born both in 4 BCE and in 6 CE. Did he lie or just make a huge error? I don't really know.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Already done:

Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Notice: "heart".

Not eyes, nose, or ears -- but heart.

Nope, not a reliable test. If a person did not find God would that refute his existence? You need to form a proper objective test if you want to claim a reasoned belief.

 

[dad]

Where did I call you a liar? You are merely confused. You do not I is how to run a proper test and as a result you believe something that is not supported by objective evidence. That inability to test one's ideas properly is why you constantly lose debates. Perhaps if you learned a bit more about evidence you could actually win a debater once.

You have no possibility of evidence for or against using science of man today.