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Bible says science cannot possibly know how many years since creation

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by dad, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Then quote where Jesus said God wrote the Bible books.
     
  2. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    "The Claims Found In The Old Testament

    The Old Testament claims to record the words of God. We are told the biblical authors recorded the words of the Lord. Moses wrote.

    And Aaron spoke all the words which the Lord had spoken to Moses (Exodus 4:30).

    In the Book of Joshua we read.

    Joshua said to the Israelites, "Come here and listen to the words of the LORD your God" (Joshua 3:9).

    It is written in Second Kings.

    The LORD warned Israel and Judah through all his prophets and seers: "Turn from your evil ways. Observe my commands and decrees, in accordance with the entire Law that I commanded your fathers to obey and that I delivered to you through my servants the prophets" (2 Kings 17:13).

    The prophet Isaiah testified.

    Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together (Isaiah 34:16).

    The Word Of God Will Benefit Future Generations

    The Old Testament was recorded for the benefit of future generations. The Lord said.

    As for me, says the Lord, 'This is my covenant with them: my Spirit who is upon you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants' descendants . . . from this time and forevermore (Isaiah 59:21).

    God's Words Are Infallible

    The words of God, as recorded in the Bible, are an infallible guide to humanity. Moses wrote.

    God is not a man that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken and will he not make it good (Numbers 23:19).

    They Are Eternal And Unchanging

    The Word of God is eternal and unchanging. Isaiah wrote.

    The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever (Isaiah 40:8).

    The psalmist said.

    Forever, O Lord, your word is settled in heaven (Psalm 119:89).

    His Words Are Powerful

    God's Word is powerful. Jeremiah recorded the Lord saying.

    Is not my word like a fire says the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? (Jeremiah 23:29).

    God's Words Are True

    The Old Testament records things that are true. The psalmist wrote.

    The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul (Psalm 19:7).

    The psalmist also wrote.

    Your law is truth (Psalm 119:142).

    The Lord said through the prophet Isaiah.

    So shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it (Isaiah 55:11).

    God's Words Are A Guide For Daily Living

    The Old Testament is a guide for living a godly life. The psalmist proclaimed.

    Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path (Psalm 119:105).

    In Proverbs we read.

    For these commands are a lamp, this teaching is a light, and the corrections of discipline are the way to life (Proverbs 6:23).

    We Are Not To Add Or Subtract To God's Word

    Because the Old Testament is the Word of the Lord people were not to add or subtract from it. The Lord said.

    See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it (Deuteronomy 12:32).

    From these statements contained in the Old Testament, we can see that it claims to record the words and deeds of God. We also observe that the statements made about God's Word assure us that humanity can place their trust in His promises.

    THE NEW TESTAMENT CLAIMS

    God's revelation to humanity was not finished with the Old Testament. The New Testament says this about itself.

    There Is More To Come

    Jesus stated plainly that more revelation was to come after He left this world.

    I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear (John 16:12).

    From this statement we discover that He would leave unfinished the revelation of God's truth to humanity. This opened the door for God to reveal a "New" Testament to the world.

    They Are The Words Of God

    The New Testament, like the Old Testament, claims to record the words of God. In what was probably the earliest letter of the Apostle Paul to a church, he wrote.

    We also constantly give thanks to God for this, that when you received the word of God that you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word but as what it really is, God's word, which is also at work in you believers (1 Thessalonians 2:13).

    They Were Given Through Human Beings

    As was true with the Old Testament, God's Word was conveyed through human instrumentation: Paul wrote

    And we speak of these things in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual things to those who are spiritual (1 Corinthians 2:13).

    The Words Are Authoritative

    The Word of God is presented as the final authority on all matters, as Jesus demonstrated in response to His temptation by the Devil.

    Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only you shall serve'" (Matthew 4:10).

    Jesus' Words Are Eternal

    Jesus said His words were everlasting:

    Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away (Matthew 24:35).

    His Words Were Given By God The Father

    When Jesus prayed to God the Father, He said that His words were the words that God the Father had given Him.

    For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me (John 17:8).

    His Words Were True

    Jesus also affirmed that God's Word is true in all that it says. He prayed to God the Father.

    Sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth (John 17:17).

    His Words Are Expected To Be Obeyed

    When certain people spoke the words of God, the Scripture tells us that the people were expected to obey their words. The words in which they spoke were ultimately God's Words - He was the source of what they said.

    The Claim Clarified

    When we say that Bible is the Word of God it does not mean that God spoke everything that is recorded in its pages. The Bible contains the words of hundreds of different men and women. What the Bible claims for itself is that it is a true account of what these people said. Furthermore, those people who were speaking for God have God's authority behind their words.

    However some individuals, who did not speak for God, also had their words recorded. While their words are part of Holy Scripture, they do not have God's divine authority behind them. Their words are not to be understood as infallible truth from God. The context makes it clear whether a person is speaking for God or that Scripture is merely recording the non-authoritative words of someone.

    Summary

    It is clear that the Scriptures by their direct statements testify to their own divine origin and unique authority. In both testaments the Bible claims to be God's revealed Word to humanity. Scripture itself claims the following things: it is a record God speaking, it is infallible, it was written to benefit future generations, it is eternal and unchanging, it is powerful, true, a guide for daily living, authoritative, and the Word of God. Thus it is the assertion of Scripture itself that it is more than a mere human book-it is the very Word of God. These claims must be taken seriously.

    However not every word in the Bible was spoken from God. Scripture records the speech of hundreds of different people. Some of them spoke for God and some of them said things that were contrary to the truth of God. The context must determine whether something in Scripture is a Word from God or the mere words of humans."

    Does the Bible Claim to Be the Word of God?
     
  3. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    Jesus words are quite clear.

    • Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28
    • But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
    • Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Matthew 23:36
    • Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34
    • Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64
    • Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1
    • Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Mark 13:30
    • And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62
    • Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Luke 21:32
    • Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:22
    • Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ... that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8
    • But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. 1 Corinthians 7:29
    • That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. Philippians 1:10
    • Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
    • I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
    • Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son.... Hebrews 1:2
    • But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9:26
    • Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you. 1 Peter 1:20
    • But the end of all things is at hand. 1 Peter 4:7
    • Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:18
    Are you saying that each of these, every single last one of these, was meant metaphorically? Do you have any justification for that apart from the fact that it didn't happen and you have to find some way to explain it?

    First of all, how does the existence of love prove that the spirit is real? You are just assuming that love comes from the spirit in order to prove that the spirit exists. I can assume that ice comes from frost fairies and then use that to prove that frost fairies are real, but that doesn't mean I am right.

    Secondly, how exactly do you propose to test love? How can I test to see if my husband loves me?
     
  4. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    The bible is right, that is not under discussion in the thread. The issue is that it states man cannot know the issues of the past and future. Atheists would not likely be concerned with what He says. Those professing belief and who adhere to the creation fables of science must be.
     
  6. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    In other words, those people who assume the Bible is right must assume it is right in order to assume it is right.

    Honestly not sure what point you're trying here.
     
  7. Colter

    Colter Member

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    The "kingdom of heaven" taught by Jesus is a spiritual kingdom, a fellowship of believers. It is comprised of those who by faith become sons of God. It has been confused with his promise to return in the future and the Jews concept of a material kingdom.

    The Kingdom is spiritual, God is the "king" in the heart of the believer.

    Eventually, far into the future, after the gospel subdues the hearts of all mankind, the kingdom will be both spiritual and material.


    John 14:26 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

    John 16:7 7But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

    So, after Jesus ascended into heaven and pored out his spirit upon all flesh, the kingdom had come. Its been here for 2,000 years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  8. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Then quote where Jesus said God wrote the Bible books?

    You cant, because its not there. The priest class who wrote and rewrote the scripture, establish their authority on the false doctrine of the infallibility of scripture (themselves). They used the doctrine of inspiration to reject Jesus!

    Their father was the devil, hence a people who could kill the Son of God were certainly capable of exaggerating their place in the world just like Lucifer elevated himself high above others.

    God allowed satan to fool the whole world, it was a freedom of speech and free will issue.

    God "allowed" the Israelites to write their own pretentious history.

    Jesus warned us not to put the new wine in the old wineskins.
     
  9. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    No. Those who know God know His word is true. Those who don't need to find a thread where that is an issue.
     
  10. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    False. Jesus said He came to fulfill Scripture. Here are some verses

    "
    1. He knew the Scriptures thoroughly, even to words and verb tenses. He obviously had either memorized vast portions or knew it instinctively: John 7:15.2

    2. He believed every word of Scripture. All the prophecies concerning Himself were fulfilled,3 and He believed beforehand they would be.4

    3. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:
    4. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
      • Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (“Book of Moses”—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (“Christ’s Canon”); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (“The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.”)5
      • Isaiah wrote “both” Isaiah’s: Mark 7:6–13; John 12:37–41 [Ed. note: Liberals claim that Isaiah 40-66 was composed after the fall of Jerusalem by another writer they call “Deutero-Isaiah”. The only real “reason” for their claim is that a straightforward dating would mean that predictive prophecy was possible, and liberals have decreed a priori that knowledge of the future is impossible (like miracles in general). Thus these portions must have been written after the events. However, there is nothing in the text itself to hint of a different author. See The Unity of Isaiah. In fact, even the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll was a seamless unity. But as Dr Livingston said, since Jesus affirmed the unity of Isaiah, the deutero-Isaiah theory is just not an option for anyone calling himself a follower of Christ.]
      • Jonah wrote Jonah: Matthew 12:39–41
      • Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15
    5. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, even though the pen was held by men: Matthew 19:4, 5; 22:31, 32, 43; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37.

    6. He believed Scripture was more powerful than His miracles: Luke 16:29, 31.

    7. He actually quoted it in overthrowing Satan! The O.T. Scriptures were the arbiter in every dispute: Matthew 4; Luke 16:29, 31.

    8. He quoted Scripture as the basis for his own teaching. His ethics were the same as what we find already written in Scripture: Matthew 7:12; 19:18, 19; 22:40; Mark 7:9, 13; 10:19; 12:24, 29–31; Luke 18:20.

    9. He warned against replacing it with something else, or adding or subtracting from it. The Jewish leaders in His day had added to it with their Oral Traditions: Matthew 5:17; 15:1–9; 22:29; (cf. Matthew 5:43, 44); Mark 7:1–12. (Destroying faith in the Bible as God’s Word will open the door today to a “new” Tradition.)

    10. He will judge all men in the last day, as Messiah and King, on the basis of His infallible Word committed to writing by fallible men, guided by the infallible Holy Spirit: Matthew 25:31; John 5:22, 27; 12:48; Romans 2:16.

    11. He made provision for the New Testament (B’rit Hadashah) by sending the Holy Spirit (the Ruach HaKodesh). We must note that He Himself never wrote one word of Scripture although He is the Word of God Himself (the living Torah in flesh and blood, see John, chapter 1). He committed the task of all writing of the Word of God to fallible men—guided by the infallible Holy Spirit. The apostles” words had the same authority as Christ’s: Matthew 10:14, 15; Luke 10:16; John 13:20; 14:22; 15:26, 27; 16:12–14.

    12. He not only was not jealous of the attention men paid to the Bible (denounced as “bibliolatry” by some), He reviled them for their ignorance of it: Matthew 22:29; Mark 12:24.

    13. Nor did Jesus worship Scripture. He honored it—even though written by men."
    Jesus Christ on the Infallibility of Scripture
     
  11. Colter

    Colter Member

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    Jesus didn't come to fix the errors in the Israelites exaggerated history, he quoted from what was true and left the error.

    The doctrine of the inspiration of the scripture is a false teaching.

    Many of the main claims of Genesis have been proven false in the real world.
     
  12. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Despite your badmouthing Scripture, Jesus obviously totally and highly venerated it. You can have whatever beliefs you like. Perhaps spend less time trying to disrespect the beliefs of others and find something positive to latch onto? Methinks thou dost protest too much.
     
  13. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps it means they're still alive, waiting for Jesus to return so they can die...

    Pseudo-immortals ;)
     
  14. Colter

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    You don't respect the beliefs of others yourself. Jesus did respect the scripture for what it was but knew full well that fallible men wrote them.
     
  15. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Since He said it was from God, you are not correct.

    Jn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
     
  16. Colter

    Colter Member

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    That has nothing to do with the error filled Old Testament.
     
  17. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Your error filled comprehension of it is the only issue.
     
  18. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    So it's a prophecy whose fulfillment is completely undetectable except by those who wish to believe that it has happened. And of course, they would always be able to differentiate between reality and their own desires...

    Why do I not find this convincing in the slightest degree?
     
  19. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    So like I said: people who assume the Bible is right must assume it is right in order to assume it is right.
     
  20. Colter

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    Because you are an Atheist, not spirit born so you are incapable of understanding at this point.

    From the beginning of his ministry Jesus spoke about the Kingdom of Heaven as a present tense reality. he plainly taught about the "advocate".
     
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