• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured BEWARE OF UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Skidder, Nov 20, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,833
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    When the words of a prophet or disciples appear to contradict the very words of God or Jesus, one does not reinterpret the words of God or Jesus to fit the prophet or disciple but the words of a prophet or disciple must be interpreted to agree with God or Jesus. UR does not do that. e.g. Matt 25:46.
    Is every one of these verses God Himself speaking? There are many more.

    Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.
    Mar_6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.
    Act_25:12 Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, Hast thou appealed unto Caesar? unto Caesar shalt thou go.
    Act_26:32 Then said Agrippa unto Festus, This man might have been set at liberty, if he had not appealed unto Caesar.
    Mat_27:13 Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
    Mat_26:62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
    Dan_3:14 Nebuchadnezzar spake and said unto them, Is it true, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, do not ye serve my gods, nor worship the golden image which I have set up
     
  2. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +5,153
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    The 2nd death is only for the lost--it is your theory that God will not do as He says when it comes to the wicked. It is also your crazy idea that when God says death is defeated by destroying death in the lake of fire---that He is lying and death has not been defeated. That is truly a bizarre thing to say and makes absolutely no sense----Death is done away with, all sin is done away with the death of all sinners, without sin there is no longer a death penalty----yet you claim death is not defeated!!! You call God a liar and say He does not make all things new again when He clearly states that He makes the earth new again. This is beyond nuts, plain delusional.
    Your theory is that God will not do as He says He will do, He will not destroy the wicked, they will come out of the lake of fire---yet you can not produce one single verse that says they come out of the fire and are rewarded with eternal life---not one verse.

    God doesn't tell lies, He always does what He says He will do and I gave you plenty of verses where He says exactly what will become of the wicked but you do not want to believe God you prefer to believe some foolish men who twist the scriptures to give you some sort of feel good doctrine that has no basis in the reality of what God. You have a right to believe who you want.

    Mat_15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    You can believe your gospel---I prefer to believe in the Gospel according to God. It is not my gospel--it's what the bible teaches. You can't give one verse that says what you teach---You've been asked several times now and still can not produce it.
     
  3. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +3,814
    Non-Denom
    Dear Laz: God is not only willing, He has determined within Himself with zero consultation with any other that He will reconcile the radical all unto Himself. He is the Unlimited One, and as such is excessively abundantly beyond being merely able, He is excessively able!

    Yup: The Unlimited God is able to accomplish His good pleasure!
     
  4. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,833
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    How about a verse, 2 or more would be better, where God, Himself has unequivocally said that He will save, reconcile etc. all mankind righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death.
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +10,863
    Anabaptist
    There's zero biblical support for the false teachings of urists ...... the motive is something foreign to Scripture, opposed to Jesus, to prevent people from finding the truth.
     
  6. Lazarus Short

    Lazarus Short Well-Known Member

    +1,707
    Non-Denom
    Married
    You have yet to find the Treasure buried in the field, which Jesus alluded to in a parable. Not all will find it in this life.
     
  7. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,572
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    And you keep rebutting with with with your 'opinion'. As for scripture?...NONE again above. OK, so you don't like our scriptures. Maybe it takes the Holy Spirit to see what we see and you don't. I can rest in that more easily than your zero scripture post. :wave::wave::wave:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  8. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Member

    181
    +227
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    It was plain to see for everyone who believes verse 26 says what it says (like Hillsage & others), that all Israel will be saved. Even verse 28 in of itself, declaring them enemies of the gospel but beloved by the Father and part of the elect, indicates at least some must be saved after death.

    It is your presupposition that there is NO salvation after death which makes you doubt that it is really all of Israel that will be saved. But that is plainly written.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  9. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,572
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    OK, that will take time. And quite honestly, this thread posts way more than I can even keep up with. I'm lucky to just 'check in', find and read the direct responses to me, and then respond.

    But, since you appear to read all of mine, you have probably noticed that I'm trying to cut some of the fat out of my forum life. :prayer: Those who I deem a waste of time, I'll happily leave in several capable hands here. As for me, I'm happy to shake a leech as quickly as scripture suggested "we shake the dust from our feet." :) How do you keep from constant computer eye strain?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  10. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Member

    181
    +227
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    "already devoured" "before".... I thought you said it wasn't chronological...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  11. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +2,833
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    Romans 11:21-24
    (21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    (22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
    (23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    (24) For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
     
  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +3,814
    Non-Denom
    My dear brother Sage: Any person who has given over 1/2 of their blessings to F.L. will forever be in my heart.

    My vision is fast joining the rest of me. From head to toe there is serious deterioration. Now my precious partner of 62 years is threatening a nasty divorce. I have not even the power to shake of dust and leeches.

    But God ! ! !
     
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +3,814
    Non-Denom
    Dear Sage: Now my wonderful wife is threatening me with a job (I cannot even spell it). Eye strain is the least of my problems!

    This is a serious "beware" we are facing here so we shall get back to what I truly enjoyed exploring in the wee hours. Both zao and zoe are closely linked. Zoe is firmly rooted in zao.

    Zoe =

    Zoe - New Testament Greek Lexicon - New American Standard

    zaō =

    Life, live, quick in the Bible (127 verses). Greek: ζάω, zaō, G2198

    “Grace is the celebration of life, relentlessly hounding all the non-celebrants in the world. It is a floating, cosmic bash shouting its way through the streets of the universe, flinging the sweetness of its cassations to every window, pounding at every door in a hilarity beyond all liking and happening, until the prodigals come out at last and dance, and the elder brothers finally take their fingers out of their ears.” - Robert Farrar Capon-
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  14. Hillsage

    Hillsage One for Him and Him for all Supporter

    +1,572
    United States
    Charismatic
    Married
    OK, I went there and read the definition. Then I started reading the 127 verses. I quickly suspected what I thought I was going to find. So after reading a number of verses I decided I needed to compare the definition of ZOE with ZAO. As I thought, I'm talking about 'the life' force with ZOE. Zao is just what I said, just not detailed enough; the breathing living creature. IOW air in air out. And the definition of ZAO in Strong's is "living". So I'm sticking to what I said earlier, which was;

    quote;
    "Followed you to this point above. IMO ZAO life is the temporal soul life we ALL have as breathing creatures. ZOE life is the resurrection spiritual life for the hereafter or the immortal here and now IMO."

    JOH 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life/ZOE.

    For me, it's the same difference between 'running on batteries', versus being plugged in to the 'power plant'. If I'm walking 'after the flesh' I cut of the ZOE life and I will die...drop dead physically. But if I'm walking in the Sspirit of Christ....like Jesus did...perfectly, then I too will overcome dropping dead physically, and put on immortality on this side of glory.

    ROM 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    Condemnation isn't the punishment...it is the sentence of where you are headed if you continue to walk after the flesh, in sin. If you do, you come under 'the law of sin and death'....sin leads to death....sin is suicide on the installment plan....for your unsaved fleshly body. NOT for your OSAS spirit which has been born again into the spirit of Christ.

    Condemnation is the judgment we receive when we're walking after the letter of the law that leads to sin and death...physically. But if we walk after the same Sspirit Jesus walked after....sin and death have no hold on us. Jesus life/ZOE wasn't 'taken from Him on the cross' He voluntarily yielded his spirit and ZOE life force to the Father. And upon its departure, his brain quit telling the muscles of respiration to contract and "he breathed his last"....last ZAO breath life that is.

    FL I know this may all just sound beyond, beyond...but that's just where I 'think'....out there beyond where most ever go. Not saying I'm right or anyone disagreeing is wrong.

    I'll reserve my 'wrong' judgment for those here against the gospel of the GOOD news. Those wanting to believe the BAD news of ETERNAL TORTURE FOR MOST. AND 'THAT TORTURE,' FROM A GOD WHO CAME UP WITH SUCH A BAD PLAN, THAT THE DEVIL WON MORE THAN THE CREATOR OF ALL, and the LORD OF ALL THE HEAVENLY HOST whether angels or demons. :idea: ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
  15. Rick Otto

    Rick Otto The Dude Abides

    +6,489
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    "But in this case, who is being spoken ABOUT is also of prime importance. "
    Agreed.
    And that would be Israel, not the whole world:


    Romans 11:32
    For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
    Again, this Epistle is not written to the whole world. In Rmans 1:7 he directs it to believers.
    But this passage is even more specific and we can see who "them all" are:

    [25] For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
    [26] And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    There may be a case for universalism but this ain't it, bro.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  16. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +5,153
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    I found my Treasure years ago---His name is Jesus.
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +5,153
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others

    It is not my opinion. It is the bible truth. It is not a bunch of quotes from other books and from men whose opinions are more important than the plain word of God. I've given you scripture after scripture---you don't like them. In fact have even gone so far as to say that "it can't be right" as it did not corroborate your opinions. Why should I keep posting verses that you keep ignoring, and totally reject. They're all there---go back and read the posts. Plenty of scriptures. The one that is without scripture is you---never that scripture that says that anyone comes out of the lake of fire to praise God and spend eternity with Him, never a verse that says sinners will have a 2nd chance to change their minds after death. All you have been able to do is to make me see that you do not have the truth of the word of God and are leading people astray into thinking they will get a 2nd chance after the lake of fire. No one comes out of the lake of fire---they are reduced to ashes because God does what He says and He says the wage of sin is death---the 2nd death, from which there is no resurrection. You can rest in the opinions of your friends and false teachers---However, it is not the pure peace and rest of God. The peace of knowing you have read His word and His Holy Spirit has filled you with His truth and you can trust in God to do exactly what He says He will do.
     
  18. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +5,153
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    Of course it is plain to you and your friends---The problem is that the verse days nothing about "after death." It is not my presupposition---there is not one verse that says there is any salvation after death. All you and your friends have to do is produce a verse that says that. If it is so plain---where is it? No one comes out of the lake of fire. They are reduced to ashes and the world is remade over them. There is no salvation from anything other than the blood of Christ and no lake of fire is going to save anyone. It's Choose you this day whom you will serve---not choose after you've gone through the lake of fire. Death seals your choice. The choice of salvation is for the living.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

    +5,153
    United States
    SDA
    Widowed
    US-Others
    The chapters are not.
     
  20. Shrewd Manager

    Shrewd Manager Through him, in all things, more than conquerors. Supporter

    +1,631
    Australia
    Christian
    Single
    And that treasure is DEATH FOR THE MANY?
    No point living forever if those you love are condemned forever. Why would you bother?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...