Bernie Sanders: Comparing My Socialism to Venezuelan Dictator’s is ‘Extremely Unfair’

[LostMarbels]

Please explain how gay rights is socialism.
I'm pretty sure Hitler persecuted gays.

This should be a simple explanation..... hopefully.


I was saying they all march together in the same crowds concerning Democratic policies and platforms.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

That is my primary inclination. People are so emotional concerning Trump they are not logically considering what his opposition is proposing.

No emotion. I’m generally not even directly affected by anything Trump has done so far but he’s simply such a disaster of a human that I will literally vote for a socialist to replace him.

 

[LostMarbels]

No emotion. I’m generally not even directly affected by anything Trump has done so far but he’s simply such a disaster of a human that I will literally vote for a socialist to replace him.

I understand that. I also find it alarming. See you at the polls.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

I understand that. I also find it alarming. See you at the polls.

Well, you’ll know who to thank if it goes how I hope it will.

 

[LostMarbels]

Well, you’ll know who to thank if it goes how I hope it will.

Same

 

[NotreDame]

From the "Maduro loves Bernie", files: Bernie Sanders: Comparing My Socialism to Venezuelan Dictator’s is ‘Extremely Unfair’

Sanders was responding to a question from moderator Jorge Ramos, known for his vocal opposition to Maduro’s oppressive regime. Ramos and his five-person crew were arrested and detained for hours in Venezuela in February for asking the country’s dictator uncomfortable questions. They were then kicked out of the country and had their equipment confiscated.
...
“You admit that Venezuela does not have free elections, but still, you refuse to call Nicolás Maduro a dictator,” Ramos asked. “Can you explain why? And what are the main differences between your kind of socialism and the one being imposed in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua?”

Sanders began by saying that “anybody who does what Maduro does is a vicious tyrant,” adding that he would back an international campaign to help organize free elections in the distressed country.

He then rejected any implication that his policies might take the United States down the same path as Venezuela, marked as it has been by economic desolation, food and medicine shortages, and general social and political chaos.

“To equate what goes on in Venezuela to what I believe is extremely unfair,” Sanders said.
...
Maduro has in the past praised the Vermont Senator ... “Bernie Sanders, our revolutionary friend, ought to win in the United States,” Maduro said during an hours-long televised broadcast in 2016.​

And he’s (Bernie) right. Maduro isn’t socialism and neither is he practicing socialism. Being a self-avowed Socialist doesn’t make one a Socialist. Declaring to be a socialist country doesn’t mean one is practicing socialism.

 

[wing2000]

Clip of the question and complete response:

 

[NotreDame]

Capitalism allows for competing power structures; socialism, but one.

It makes all the difference in outcome ... and why capitalism has consistently outperformed socialism, time after time. It's why capitalism has consistently pulled people out of poverty whereas socialism consistently puts people into poverty and misery.

Socialism is the public ownership, collective ownership, of the means of production, or governmental ownership of the means of production. Socialism is also characterized as public, collective decision making as to how the means of production are to be used, what they are to produce, and resource allocation to those purposes along with resource allocation in general to the wider public.

Can you identify specifically where Socialism was “outperformed” by capitalism?

“Poverty and misery” isn’t unique to Socialism. America’s capitalist economy has no shortage of “misery” and “poverty.” Indeed, when the titans of industry, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Morgan, were prominent in the late 1800s, their laborers tasted an over abundant bitterness of low wages, poverty, harsh working conditions, and misery, in America’s capitalist regime. Now, one could say that wasn’t a result of capitalism but capitalism was a mere tool. Similarly, I’m doubtful you can give me a good example of socialism resulting in poverty and misery.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I want one example under this broad term of 'socialism' where the leader was not a maniacal psychopath that murder and starved his own people?

India, Nepal, Tanzania

Socialist state - Wikipedia

Socialism has nothing to do with being a maniacal psycopath.

 

[NotreDame]

Meh ... maybe. Maybe not. I try not to ascribe motivation to people ... though it does seem obvious at times.

Personally, I think it was an eminently fair question. Imagine, if you will, that a national socialist was running for president. Wouldn't you agree that it would be incumbent on that individual to distinguish his policies from those of Hitler? I daresay that most people would demand that he do so before they would offer him more than the few milliseconds it takes to catch the persons name.

Bernie put himself in this position. He has long associated himself with the failed socialist governments of the USSR, Cuba and more recently Venzuela. He now seemingly wants to distance himself from them ... but that's a recent development.

Apparently, neither Bernie nor his supporters can answer the question of how his policies are significantly different than those of the failed socialist states of the USSR, Cuba and Venzuela. They should be able to answer the question ... but they can't. His policies aren't greatly different. The policies of those failed states are the policies Bernie has revered his entire life. Unfortunately for Bernie, they're inconvenient for his immediate political goal.

Except the USSR wasn’t socialist. They were communist, or so they claimed. Neither is Cuba or Venezuela socialist in practice, they are in name only. One must and should go beyond mere labels and scrutinize how the economic system actually operates to properly ascertain whether some nation is indeed socialist. The people aren’t in control of the means of production, they aren’t making decisions about allocation of resources, how the means of production are to be used, what to produce, etcetera. Those decisions are made by one man, the singular dictator of the country, in effect a capitalist masquerading as a socialist, implementing some aspects of socialism, but not socialism itself.

 

[NotreDame]

I want one example under this broad term of 'socialism' where the leader was not a maniacal psychopath that murder and starved his own people?

One example in the world's history where this socialism thing actually worked.

Socialism is broadly understood as the democratic, social, collective, public ownership of the means of production, public decision making for the allocation of resources, what is to be produced, how much, etcetera. It’s very meaning doesn’t include a maniacal dictator. Indeed, a dictator is inconsistent with socialism.

 

[JohnAshton]

Ignore history then.

Nonsense. The far-right has not been pushing socialism.

Instead, the entire field of Democratic contenders has been doing so.

The far right has ignored that we have been a mixed regulated economy for a long time.

You can't even define socialism as it applies to the US.

 

[JohnAshton]

I'm Not messing with it. I'm ready to go die in a field somewhere to keep it out of this country.

Just nonsense.

 

[JohnAshton]

How is it my interpretation? The context/grammar is all there. Stevie Wonder could see it.

Jude
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1 Cor.6 9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (in the Greek arsenokoitēs- which means: one who lies with a male as with a female, sodomite, homosexual)

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature

How do you think Paul came to this conclusion? On his own? You know full well.

Clearly no interpretation of my own, but actual words spoken.

Those words are not those of Jesus. You know it. I know it. I know the Lord.

Condemnation only rebounds on the condemner.

 

[Hank77]

That is my primary inclination. People are so emotional concerning Trump they are not logically considering what his opposition is proposing.

Because I correct what is being said about a candidate doesn't mean that I agree with the candidate or that I would vote for them. It really doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about Trump.
I'm a fiscal conservative so for me it's a matter of taking care of people well in the most cost efficient way we can.

 

[LostMarbels]

India, Nepal, Tanzania

Socialist state - Wikipedia

Socialism has nothing to do with being a maniacal psycopath.

Maois, Marxis, and Leninist run rampant in all 3. There are 2 communist parties in the indian government. People are afraid they are taking over.

Declaring to be a socialist country doesn’t mean one is practicing socialism.

 

[LostMarbels]

Socialism is broadly understood as the democratic, social, collective, public ownership of the means of production, public decision making for the allocation of resources, what is to be produced, how much, etcetera. It’s very meaning doesn’t include a maniacal dictator. Indeed, a dictator is inconsistent with socialism.

And I still do not agree with it.

 

[ArmenianJohn]

A shortage of poutine, maple syrup, and Molsen Canadian beer! Oh noes!

I remember when you could buy a bag of milk with a loonie and still have enough change for a St. Viateur bagel, eh? Snack for the Expos game!

 

[iluvatar5150]

Maois, Marxis, and Leninist run rampant in all 3. There are 2 communist parties in the indian government. People are afraid they are taking over.

You asked about "maniacal psychopaths" starving the populace. Are you moving the goalposts now?

 

[LostMarbels]

You asked about "maniacal psychopaths" starving the populace. Are you moving the goalposts now?

Hey you got a point. They are in the 'not yet' category.