Is Western Liberal Democracy inherently anti-Christ or Satanic?

lifepsyop

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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.

The thinking goes that the more individually atomized or "open" a society becomes, the more freely the "simple Gospel" message can pass in between individuals, free of any other coercive cultural or religious structures found in pre-Enlightenment society. Ironically, when the Church is cleansed from public life, this is supposed to make the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus more fluid and effective.

You can see this attitude dominate in post-Enlightenment, Americanized Christianity. The Church no longer has any place on a societal or communal level. Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual. In our society there is no longer a Christian Family ruled over by the husband, because this would go against the now sacred tenets of Liberalism, which dictates that a man cannot have any dominant role over a woman in any capacity. They are both equal individual units. The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy. This is just one example of many, but it really highlights the double-mindedness of American/western Christianity. In one sense, the Gospel message flows freely throughout the individualized west, and yet it flows within the confined spaces of an ideology that hates and rejects the Heavenly order that that the Gospel descends to earth from. ("...Thy Will Be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven") And the same Evangelizers that spread the Gospel, turn around and promote the Liberal order as a result of divine providence, and a source of "Freedom" for humanity.

American Christianity wants to combine the Cross with the Statue of Liberty, they want to combine the ultimate hierarchy of Heaven with the perpetual revolutionary shattering of hierarchy via the liberal democratic order.

From what I am seeing, the Gospel of Jesus is inherently hostile to classical liberal ideology in fairly obvious ways. (not only the "Woke" liberal, but the "conservative" 18th and 19th century American style of liberalism also)... The Liberal Democratic order actively promotes the structure of sin (or the rejection of God's order)

I think many American Christians are beginning to realize this but just don't know what to do about it. There does seem to be a 'Reformation out of Liberalism' taking place.

What bothers me is that there are so many other (mostly Boomer generation) Christian leaders who completely drank the Kool-Aid on Americanism and believe that we basically inaugurated a kind of Millenial kingdom of God when America became a hegemonic power after World War 2. They have divinized modern individual American Liberty as a sacred force for good in the world, and the "Spirit of Democracy" as equal with the Holy Spirit itself. They made secularism sacred, which explains why our sense of morality seems to be dictated from the secular world now, instead of the church, (which now begs the secular world for its approval.)

In all likelihood, our way of life is so enmeshed with the liberal order, that it's probably going to take a major social collapse in order for the Church to come out of this. That seems to be the general pattern we see in the Bible as well. We aren't willingly going to give up our Liberty idols.
 

com7fy8

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There has been a while during which the United States had a conservative church culture. It has not continued. So, it did not work to keep itself going and to increase. God increases what He is doing, I would say. And possibly what came before is what has helped our present situation to develop. Yes, I mean the Bible claiming culture has helped to produce what we have now.

I didn't say the obedient church of Jesus has caused what we have now in the United States, but the culture has been at least an accomplice.

Ones have been claiming endlessly that America is a Christian foundation nation. But what is functionally Christian keeps growing and increasing. God gives "increase" (1 Corinthians 3:5-7)

So, yes, now we have the really Christian church growing and developing, maturing in Jesus. But this is better than what the church culture has been pushing and failing in doing. And yes, in the culture we can see quite a variety show of people switching around, going conservative and then liberal . . . maybe on purpose acting as though they have come to believe or come to be conservative, so then they can pretend to see the light and switch to liberal or whatever.

Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual.
Yes, in the United States there is the idol of independence which can isolate individuals in their own so-called "free wills", instead of functioning and sharing as family in Jesus. But there are more than 330,000,000 people living in the United States, including our border-crossing people. How many of these people you are talking about do you know personally?? I would offer that we can not make statements about people we don't even know. And you might be making statements about only certain ones who show.

The Christian church functional and obedient might not be making a big show, but is working deeper. God is succeeding, I offer. But yes we do need to be warned not to let ourselves be "atomized" so then we could be condensed by the coldness so we drop in with the liberals and atheists . . . and the church culture show.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy.
Here you say "Privately" . . . how many people do you know well enough to know what is happening . . . "Privately"?? And how do you know that statistics are really getting info - - on what is private?

There are people who can make a public show, so we suppose they represent everyone else in some group. Activists seem to be pretty good at this. One screaming face on a ten-second news clip on TV can pretend to represent a lot of people.

We have people saying America has a Christian foundation. Of course, ones have used bloodshed a number of times, including with massacres of people of the land, in order to establish the United States . . . not how I have understood that Jesus does things . . . on His foundation.

But I note how the "Christian America" people I am seeing and hearing also have a connection with supporting Israel politically . . . right while it seems Israel is not obeying the LORD >

Ones talk about the "fear" in Israel . . . when actually Jesus says not to fear. And there seems to be an active slaughter house in Gaza, now, when Jesus says He did not come to destroy people's lives, but to save > Luke 9:56.

So, there seem to be some things which don't match, between the bloodshed involved in founding America and defending Israel, and how and why Jesus shed His blood.

So, I can see the trick . . . make public Christianity seem like it is the only and real Christianity, then make it fail so everyone supposes it was all fake. And it was produced from the earlier form, of "conservative" Christianity which has not grown and increased like, I consider, God's thing always does. And so now we have the product of what was never real in the first place. And ones are now decrying and trying to fry what they have helped to produce!

If you don't like the product, we need to stop what has helped to produce it, or else "it" will keep coming from the source.

So, what is the problem, then? Character has not been truly corrected. There have been conversions, but not of character but only of the acting and what people are "trying" to do. And with this comes the worship of one's own "free will" as being able to do what is right, when God alone is able to do anything right and keep it growing. And ones are not ministering the curing of character which is the hotbed of evil emotions and thinking and feelings. So, then ones suffer and are desperate for pleasure to try to feel something nicer > and we are seeing where desperation for pleasure is going with people now. But it has had the help of church culture people who don't believe God corrects and cures us of what makes us able to give in to cruel and brutal and stupid emotions and feelings and ways of a selfish personality.

They expect the behavior to get better, but they don't expect the deeper personality to change. Meanwhile, they are arguing and complaining, and the horrible example of this can help keep their kids from finding out how to love in a close relationship. And then comes the divorcing and other results. But God's word says what to do >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

God's word says to put away those evil and cruel emotions and feelings of a selfish personality. And grow in Jesus, instead.

Deal with the cause, not just the product. Our character makes us able to give in to negative and nasty stuff; but as we grow in Jesus, we grow in His peace and how we can love and care for any and all people. And we discover others who are into this, obeying Christ in His rest.
 
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lifepsyop

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sharing as family in Jesus. But there are more than 330,000,000 people living in the United States, including our border-crossing people. How many of these people you are talking about do you know personally?? I would offer that we can not make statements about people we don't even know. And you might be making statements about only certain ones who show.

The Christian church functional and obedient might not be making a big show, but is working deeper. God is succeeding, I offer. But yes we do need to be warned not to let ourselves be "atomized" so then we could be condensed by the coldness so we drop in with the liberals and atheists . . . and the church culture show.

I attend what would be considered a "conservative" Baptist church and the leadership there would not ever touch the classical tenets of Liberalism... e.g. the equality of men and women, etc. or the righteousness of 20th century Americanism and the liberal democratic order that has paved the way for radical individualism. Where are these American churches offering resistance? I don't see them. The pastor might stand up and say that marriage is between a man and a woman, but then they simultaneously venerate a political order that fully contradicts it, because classical liberalism and the rights of the individual is something sacred to even conservative Christians. They are ready to pick up a rifle and die for the right of two men to marry each other. That is American Liberty. It's a crass way to think about it, but there it is.
 
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zippy2006

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com7fy8

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the equality of men and women,
Well, every child of God has Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

Jesus is the same in both men and women; so spiritually men and women are equal, by having the same Jesus growing in each of them.

But if a lady is more mature in Jesus, than some man is . . . they are not equal, in maturity and wisdom.

And there are women who can help a disobedient man > 1 Peter 3:1-4 < to get right with God. So they are somehow superior to him, if they can minister to him to get right with God.

So, it depends on what someone means by equality.
 
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lifepsyop

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Well, every child of God has Jesus growing in us as our new inner Person >

"My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

Jesus is the same in both men and women; so spiritually men and women are equal, by having the same Jesus growing in each of them.

But if a lady is more mature in Jesus, than some man is . . . they are not equal, in maturity and wisdom.

And there are women who can help a disobedient man > 1 Peter 3:1-4 < to get right with God. So they are somehow superior to him, if they can minister to him to get right with God.

So, it depends on what someone means by equality.

A child might have more spiritual wisdom and knowledge of Christ than his father, but clearly he is still meant to observe the authority of his parents. God created hierarchy and order. It's the entire basis of creation, in fact. A society that tries to put women as equal authorities to man is simply rejecting this order. Unfortunately, Conservative Christians surrendered to rule by women a long time ago. It's the American way.
 
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Fantine

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Conservative Christianity seems more individualistic than progressive Christianity.

Hillary Clinton wrote. "It Takes a Village," not Republican first ladies.

There seems to be little focus on loving one's neighbor as oneself--Jesus' second great commandment.

They even support a presidential candidate who can hardly get through a sentence without insulting and demeaning others.
 
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Dale

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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.

The thinking goes that the more individually atomized or "open" a society becomes, the more freely the "simple Gospel" message can pass in between individuals, free of any other coercive cultural or religious structures found in pre-Enlightenment society. Ironically, when the Church is cleansed from public life, this is supposed to make the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus more fluid and effective.

You can see this attitude dominate in post-Enlightenment, Americanized Christianity. The Church no longer has any place on a societal or communal level. Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual. In our society there is no longer a Christian Family ruled over by the husband, because this would go against the now sacred tenets of Liberalism, which dictates that a man cannot have any dominant role over a woman in any capacity. They are both equal individual units. The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy. This is just one example of many, but it really highlights the double-mindedness of American/western Christianity. In one sense, the Gospel message flows freely throughout the individualized west, and yet it flows within the confined spaces of an ideology that hates and rejects the Heavenly order that that the Gospel descends to earth from. ("...Thy Will Be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven") And the same Evangelizers that spread the Gospel, turn around and promote the Liberal order as a result of divine providence, and a source of "Freedom" for humanity.

American Christianity wants to combine the Cross with the Statue of Liberty, they want to combine the ultimate hierarchy of Heaven with the perpetual revolutionary shattering of hierarchy via the liberal democratic order.

From what I am seeing, the Gospel of Jesus is inherently hostile to classical liberal ideology in fairly obvious ways. (not only the "Woke" liberal, but the "conservative" 18th and 19th century American style of liberalism also)... The Liberal Democratic order actively promotes the structure of sin (or the rejection of God's order)

I think many American Christians are beginning to realize this but just don't know what to do about it. There does seem to be a 'Reformation out of Liberalism' taking place.

What bothers me is that there are so many other (mostly Boomer generation) Christian leaders who completely drank the Kool-Aid on Americanism and believe that we basically inaugurated a kind of Millenial kingdom of God when America became a hegemonic power after World War 2. They have divinized modern individual American Liberty as a sacred force for good in the world, and the "Spirit of Democracy" as equal with the Holy Spirit itself. They made secularism sacred, which explains why our sense of morality seems to be dictated from the secular world now, instead of the church, (which now begs the secular world for its approval.)

In all likelihood, our way of life is so enmeshed with the liberal order, that it's probably going to take a major social collapse in order for the Church to come out of this. That seems to be the general pattern we see in the Bible as well. We aren't willingly going to give up our Liberty idols.


Reacting to your title ...

Most of the western democracies in Europe have state churches. The United Kingdom, Holland, Belgium, and Sweden all have state churches, for instance. I don't think much of state churches but it does put the State on the side of Christianity. Many countries also have crosses on their flags.

For the United States, Thomas Jefferson referred to God in the Declaration of Independence. In the Constitution, on the number of days the President has to veto a bill, it says "Sundays excepted."

The answer is that historically, democracy gets along very well with Christianity.
 
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Dale

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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.

The thinking goes that the more individually atomized or "open" a society becomes, the more freely the "simple Gospel" message can pass in between individuals, free of any other coercive cultural or religious structures found in pre-Enlightenment society. Ironically, when the Church is cleansed from public life, this is supposed to make the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus more fluid and effective.

You can see this attitude dominate in post-Enlightenment, Americanized Christianity. The Church no longer has any place on a societal or communal level. Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual. In our society there is no longer a Christian Family ruled over by the husband, because this would go against the now sacred tenets of Liberalism, which dictates that a man cannot have any dominant role over a woman in any capacity. They are both equal individual units. The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy. This is just one example of many, but it really highlights the double-mindedness of American/western Christianity. In one sense, the Gospel message flows freely throughout the individualized west, and yet it flows within the confined spaces of an ideology that hates and rejects the Heavenly order that that the Gospel descends to earth from. ("...Thy Will Be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven") And the same Evangelizers that spread the Gospel, turn around and promote the Liberal order as a result of divine providence, and a source of "Freedom" for humanity.

American Christianity wants to combine the Cross with the Statue of Liberty, they want to combine the ultimate hierarchy of Heaven with the perpetual revolutionary shattering of hierarchy via the liberal democratic order.

From what I am seeing, the Gospel of Jesus is inherently hostile to classical liberal ideology in fairly obvious ways. (not only the "Woke" liberal, but the "conservative" 18th and 19th century American style of liberalism also)... The Liberal Democratic order actively promotes the structure of sin (or the rejection of God's order)

I think many American Christians are beginning to realize this but just don't know what to do about it. There does seem to be a 'Reformation out of Liberalism' taking place.

What bothers me is that there are so many other (mostly Boomer generation) Christian leaders who completely drank the Kool-Aid on Americanism and believe that we basically inaugurated a kind of Millenial kingdom of God when America became a hegemonic power after World War 2. They have divinized modern individual American Liberty as a sacred force for good in the world, and the "Spirit of Democracy" as equal with the Holy Spirit itself. They made secularism sacred, which explains why our sense of morality seems to be dictated from the secular world now, instead of the church, (which now begs the secular world for its approval.)

In all likelihood, our way of life is so enmeshed with the liberal order, that it's probably going to take a major social collapse in order for the Church to come out of this. That seems to be the general pattern we see in the Bible as well. We aren't willingly going to give up our Liberty idols.


Lifepsyop: "
The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life."

Phrases like "satanic dogma" cause nothing but confusion and facilitates extremism.
 
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Truth7t7

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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.
"False"

God's people don't sit comfortably with killing the unborn (Abortion) or homosexuality in (Same Sex Marriage), with that mentioned being two foundations in the liberal platform

You might have those claiming to be Christians in agreement with that mentioned, but the Bible speaks of wolves in sheep's clothing that aren't part of Christianity or the Church

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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Dale

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"False"

God's people don't sit comfortably with killing the unborn (Abortion) or homosexuality in (Same Sex Marriage), with that mentioned being two foundations in the liberal platform

You might have those claiming to be Christians in agreement with that mentioned, but the Bible speaks of wolves in sheep's clothing that aren't part of Christianity or the Church

Jesus Is The Lord

Representative democracy has been around for hundreds of years. Same sex marriage is a very recent addition to what many modern people believe. When people were babbling about making homosexuality more acceptable around 1970, few could imagine that it would come to the point of government endorsing it by law. Even less could anyone imagine that the US Supreme Court would impose it by decree. Or that our elected representatives would accept this usurpation of their authority to make laws.
 
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Arcangl86

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"False"

God's people don't sit comfortably with killing the unborn (Abortion) or homosexuality in (Same Sex Marriage), with that mentioned being two foundations in the liberal platform

You might have those claiming to be Christians in agreement with that mentioned, but the Bible speaks of wolves in sheep's clothing that aren't part of Christianity or the Church

Jesus Is The Lord
Liberal democracy and liberal/progressive policies are not the same thing. Liberal democracy is a form of government, defined by some form of functioning democratic institution and the protection of individual freedoms. The US is often considered a textbook example of that and one of the first.
 
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Truth7t7

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Liberal democracy and liberal/progressive policies are not the same thing. Liberal democracy is a form of government, defined by some form of functioning democratic institution and the protection of individual freedoms. The US is often considered a textbook example of that and one of the first.
I have explained a liberal democracy, where like sexes are allowed to marry and they kill the innocent unborn (Abortion)

You can build whatever argument you want, I disagree
 
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Dale

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I have explained a liberal democracy, where like sexes are allowed to marry and they kill the innocent unborn (Abortion)

You can build whatever argument you want, I disagree

You need to look up liberal democracy in the encyclopedia.

It would make just as much sense to describe conservatives as people who believe in beating slaves with whips.
 
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Arcangl86

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I have explained a liberal democracy, where like sexes are allowed to marry and they kill the innocent unborn (Abortion)
And that is not what the phrase means. Liberal democracy has an accepted meaning. Even countries that outlaw abortion and have no LGBT rights can still be liberal democracies.
You can build whatever argument you want, I disagree
You're disagreeing against a strawman.
 
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Truth7t7

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You need to look up liberal democracy in the encyclopedia.

It would make just as much sense to describe conservatives as people who believe in beating slaves with whips.
The Southern Democrats Were The Slave Owners, Who You Trying To Fool, Smiles

Ole Abe Lincoln And Republicans Freed Black Slaves, And Were The Very Foundations Of The Abolition And Civil Rights Movements, Things Democrats Opposed
 
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Arcangl86

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The Southern Democrats Were The Slave Owners, Who You Trying To Fool, Smiles
They said nothing about Republicans or Democrats, they said "conservatives" So they aren't trying to fool anybody because the conservatives were the Democrats.
Ole Abe Lincoln And Republicans Freed Black Slaves, And Were The Very Foundations Of The Abolition
True. That's because they were the liberals back then.
And Civil Rights Movements, Things Democrats Opposed
The Civil Rights Movement was determined more by North Vs. South instead of by political parties. As a party more Democrats did oppose civil rights legislation as a proportion of the party (though even there the major civil rights bills got a majority of Democrats to back them), but those votes for the most part were in the South, because that was before the parties flipped.
 
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Truth7t7

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but those votes for the most part were in the South, because that was before the parties flipped.
No party flipped as you claim, the south was always democrats, while the north was largely republican starting with Abe Lincoln

The conservative wigs and then Republicans started and helped the underground railroad, and those involved with the abolitionist, the quakers played a major role

The democrats in the house and senate kept the longest filibuster going in US history, trying to stop the Civil rights bill in 1964
 
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Dale

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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.

The thinking goes that the more individually atomized or "open" a society becomes, the more freely the "simple Gospel" message can pass in between individuals, free of any other coercive cultural or religious structures found in pre-Enlightenment society. Ironically, when the Church is cleansed from public life, this is supposed to make the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus more fluid and effective.

You can see this attitude dominate in post-Enlightenment, Americanized Christianity. The Church no longer has any place on a societal or communal level. Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual. In our society there is no longer a Christian Family ruled over by the husband, because this would go against the now sacred tenets of Liberalism, which dictates that a man cannot have any dominant role over a woman in any capacity. They are both equal individual units. The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy. This is just one example of many, but it really highlights the double-mindedness of American/western Christianity. In one sense, the Gospel message flows freely throughout the individualized west, and yet it flows within the confined spaces of an ideology that hates and rejects the Heavenly order that that the Gospel descends to earth from. ("...Thy Will Be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven") And the same Evangelizers that spread the Gospel, turn around and promote the Liberal order as a result of divine providence, and a source of "Freedom" for humanity.

American Christianity wants to combine the Cross with the Statue of Liberty, they want to combine the ultimate hierarchy of Heaven with the perpetual revolutionary shattering of hierarchy via the liberal democratic order.

From what I am seeing, the Gospel of Jesus is inherently hostile to classical liberal ideology in fairly obvious ways. (not only the "Woke" liberal, but the "conservative" 18th and 19th century American style of liberalism also)... The Liberal Democratic order actively promotes the structure of sin (or the rejection of God's order)

I think many American Christians are beginning to realize this but just don't know what to do about it. There does seem to be a 'Reformation out of Liberalism' taking place.

What bothers me is that there are so many other (mostly Boomer generation) Christian leaders who completely drank the Kool-Aid on Americanism and believe that we basically inaugurated a kind of Millenial kingdom of God when America became a hegemonic power after World War 2. They have divinized modern individual American Liberty as a sacred force for good in the world, and the "Spirit of Democracy" as equal with the Holy Spirit itself. They made secularism sacred, which explains why our sense of morality seems to be dictated from the secular world now, instead of the church, (which now begs the secular world for its approval.)

In all likelihood, our way of life is so enmeshed with the liberal order, that it's probably going to take a major social collapse in order for the Church to come out of this. That seems to be the general pattern we see in the Bible as well. We aren't willingly going to give up our Liberty idols.

It sounds like you are attacking democracy.
Unless you are one of the 25 most powerful people in the country, democracy is the only thing you've got going for you.
 
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It seems bizarre to me how the western, mainly evangelical Christian community sits so comfortably in the liberal democratic tradition.

The thinking goes that the more individually atomized or "open" a society becomes, the more freely the "simple Gospel" message can pass in between individuals, free of any other coercive cultural or religious structures found in pre-Enlightenment society. Ironically, when the Church is cleansed from public life, this is supposed to make the sharing of the Gospel of Jesus more fluid and effective.

You can see this attitude dominate in post-Enlightenment, Americanized Christianity. The Church no longer has any place on a societal or communal level. Society is now nothing more than atomized individuals, therefore the new concept of Church can never rise above the level of individual. In our society there is no longer a Christian Family ruled over by the husband, because this would go against the now sacred tenets of Liberalism, which dictates that a man cannot have any dominant role over a woman in any capacity. They are both equal individual units. The American Church (both Conservative and Leftist) now adopts this essentially satanic dogma into their way of life.

Privately, American Christians can say that they respect the Biblical hierarchy of man and woman, and yet they simultaneously promote a Liberal Democratic order which directly opposes such a hierarchy. This is just one example of many, but it really highlights the double-mindedness of American/western Christianity. In one sense, the Gospel message flows freely throughout the individualized west, and yet it flows within the confined spaces of an ideology that hates and rejects the Heavenly order that that the Gospel descends to earth from. ("...Thy Will Be Done, on Earth as it is in Heaven") And the same Evangelizers that spread the Gospel, turn around and promote the Liberal order as a result of divine providence, and a source of "Freedom" for humanity.

American Christianity wants to combine the Cross with the Statue of Liberty, they want to combine the ultimate hierarchy of Heaven with the perpetual revolutionary shattering of hierarchy via the liberal democratic order.

From what I am seeing, the Gospel of Jesus is inherently hostile to classical liberal ideology in fairly obvious ways. (not only the "Woke" liberal, but the "conservative" 18th and 19th century American style of liberalism also)... The Liberal Democratic order actively promotes the structure of sin (or the rejection of God's order)

I think many American Christians are beginning to realize this but just don't know what to do about it. There does seem to be a 'Reformation out of Liberalism' taking place.

What bothers me is that there are so many other (mostly Boomer generation) Christian leaders who completely drank the Kool-Aid on Americanism and believe that we basically inaugurated a kind of Millenial kingdom of God when America became a hegemonic power after World War 2. They have divinized modern individual American Liberty as a sacred force for good in the world, and the "Spirit of Democracy" as equal with the Holy Spirit itself. They made secularism sacred, which explains why our sense of morality seems to be dictated from the secular world now, instead of the church, (which now begs the secular world for its approval.)

In all likelihood, our way of life is so enmeshed with the liberal order, that it's probably going to take a major social collapse in order for the Church to come out of this. That seems to be the general pattern we see in the Bible as well. We aren't willingly going to give up our Liberty idols.

I don't know that Western Liberal Democracy is inherently Anti-Christian. From some angles, it's more neutral in some respects.

I think it might be better to say instead that, from the various historical considerations we could bring to the table, it doesn't appear in hindsight that Western Liberal Democracy is inherently Christian. It all depends on the character of who's leading it and using it.
 
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