Believing VS Knowing

[believeume]

I believe and I know. I've seen angels in my dreams defeating demons and I've heard about friends having stage four pancreatic cancer to the point of months to live down to healed. I know Jesus as He has made me come this far in my life even through I've been through a lifetime of misery. Jesus carried me and has held my hand showing me to get the help I need for my PTSD and to trust in Him with everything. I have seen Him do miraculous things and I know He can do miraculous things. I don't know if that makes sense to you but it does to me.

I'm sure anyone who believes strongly in something will have similar story's. I bet atheist have testimonies of the natural convincing them of the direction they're going. But experiences someone can have about their position in reality remain wholly subjective. Mostly it's interpersonal and can't be transfered.

 

[believeume]

What do you mean by "the spark of life" exactly? How do you know how complex it is?

This is a bit confusing. What do you think is layered beneath the physical to make it real?

Selah.

Well the physical world is composed of more than you think, it's dependant on world's underneath to exist.

It's not just energy and matter, there are complex systems composed in many arrangements to make the physical physical.

I think you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Cappadocious]

Scripturally, faith is a real material property upon which scriptural belief (commitment) is based.

Real and material as opposed to what?

Scripturally, faith is not something to believe in, faith is a real substance--perceivable reality-- that is the foundation of belief in something unperceivable.

I don't know where you got the idea that some people think faith as such is a something we believe in. Maybe when people say "the faith" but that's clearly a different referring expression.

Faith typically or even necessarily includes a purport, faith is in some x (person, place, etc.) to do or be in some action, state, etc. This would seem to include a constitutive belief, or at least something belief-like.

 

[believeume]

However, I would consider "justice" as a code of behavior that is a departure from the actions nature would dictate.

Do you think our codes and laws are somewhat superior, If anything they create disparity and the rumination of our species.

The idea of justice is just an eye for an eye. We really haven't grown much as a community, in 2000 years.

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

I'm sure anyone who believes strongly in something will have similar story's. I bet atheist have testimonies of the natural convincing them of the direction they're going. But experiences someone can have about their position in reality remain wholly subjective. Mostly it's interpersonal and can't be transfered.

It's the same thing about me ghost hunting, which I don't tell everyone. People have their own experiences and I can tell you about my experience but you have to have an experience yourself-almost supernatural for you to believe and to know. When you have that experience, then you will know.

 

[believeume]

That's fairly straightforward, because most people who call themselves Christian do not "know" Him. They believe He is, they like the idea of who He is, they're very fond of the book with the new parts written largely about Him, but they do not actually know Him. If they did, they would behave very differently than they do.

That is also exactly why there is such a thing as "ex-Christians". If a person actually had known God, they would not be able to wake up one fine morning and doubt that they had met Him.

That's spooky true, you can't ever deny what you actually know. Beyond fact, encompassing the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.

 

[believeume]

It's the same thing about me ghost hunting, which I don't tell everyone. People have their own experiences and I can tell you about my experience but you have to have an experience yourself-almost supernatural for you to believe and to know. When you have that experience, then you will know.

Well experiences in anything is important, but it's only a piece of the understanding pie. I don't like banking everything on one slice.

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

Sometimes it takes that one slice of pie to make a believer out of you.

 

[Winken]

Depends on the mind.

Nope. Entirely Spiritual. It is impossible for the non-believer to comprehend that.

p.s.
The blessed part of all this is that He KNOWS me.

 

[believeume]

Sometimes it takes that one slice of pie to make a believer out of you.

I think that is unwise.

Here is a interesting old testament verse

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children

So what does "knowledge" mean in Hebrew?

 

[believeume]

Nope. Entirely Spiritual. It is impossible for the non-believer to comprehend that.

That sounds counter productive.

How do you supposed to comprehended something if you have no comprehensive ability to comprehend something in the first place.

 

[Winken]

That sounds counter productive, how do you supposed to comprehended something, when you have no comprehensive ability to comprehend something in the first place.

That's what you are missing. Faith, Hope, Trust, Love, Belief are in Christ Jesus. You aren't there yet. Romans 10:8-13 is the key. Romans 8:1 is the sealer.

 

[believeume]

That's what you are missing. Faith, Hope, Trust, Love, Belief are in Christ Jesus. You aren't there yet. Romans 10:8-13 is the key. Romans 8:1 is the sealer.

I already said, everyone shares those abilities. There not exclusive to a group of people.

 

[Winken]

I already said, everyone shares those abilities. There not exclusive to a group of people.

No, they don't. 1 Corinthians 2:14-16. Insofar as your eternity is concerned, only those who confess Jesus as Savior are in "the group."

 

[believeume]

No, they don't. 1 Corinthians 2:14-16. Insofar as your eternity is concerned, only those who confess Jesus as Savior are in "the group."

Love is a shared ability, do Buddhist not love their own brothers or sisters after an argument.

What about belief, do Hindus not believe that their promotion is due when they do right, and show that they are responsible at their job.

What about faith, do Atheist not put hope in their children when facing a difficult test they could fail.

These attributes are common place no matter what you put them into.

 

[Winken]

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children

So what does "knowledge" mean in Hebrew?

The capacity to gain an accurate and deep intuitive understanding of that which is being revealed.

REMEMBER: That is from the Hebrew Bible. It references Hebrew folk in that day who were steadfastly rejecting God's revelation.

 

[Winken]

Love is a shared ability, do Buddhist not love their own brothers or sisters after an argument.

What about belief, do Hindus not believe that their promotion is due when they do right, and show that they are responsible at their job.

What about faith, do Atheist not put hope in their children when facing a difficult test they could fail.

These attributes are common place no matter what you put them into.

How many of them are rejecting Jesus as Savior, the Way, the Truth, the Life?

 

[believeume]

How many of them are rejecting Jesus as Savior, the Way, the Truth, the Life?

Well I guess thats what it comes down to, who gets life and who doesnt.

 

[Winken]

Well I guess thats what it comes down to, who gets life and who doesnt.

Eternal life.

 

[mark kennedy]

If Jesus is real, why do Christian's say they believe in him. Shouldn't they say I know him?

How can one believe something they know?

The Gospel lays claim to a revelation of sin, righteousness, final judgment, atonement and you can know all that and still go on to perdition. Abraham was promised a son and he laughed, Sarah overheard the promise and she laughed. When Isaac was born he was named Isaac because it means 'she laughs'. Also, Abraham believed God and it was credited to him for righteousness, Sarah is said in Hebrews to have believed the one who made the promise if faithful. If by know Jesus, if you mean in a personal way I would agree wholeheartedly. The indwelling Holy Spirit makes known to us the things of Christ and is the only one who can truly convince you of the truth concerning Christ.

In the book of Acts it says the believing Pharisees were the ones pushing for circumcision. Sergius Paulus believed at the preaching of Paul after seeing Jewish sorcerer and false prophet called Bar-Jesus blinded. There are other examples, Agrippa believed at least the OT prophets but did he convert? I claim to know Christ, it's the heart of my Christian profession but does Christ confess before the Father that he knows me, that's the question:

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
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I know of no instance where someone came to Jesus and he turned them away, there are repeated examples of them leaving him.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (John 6:37)

Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. (Matt. 11:29)
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Christianity isn't about religion, it's about a relationship. I can tell you all day long I know him but do I love those who love him, do I seek to know and do God's will, I can say I know him but does he know me in the sense of Matthew 7:21-23? That's a difficult question and we should never be so sure of our profession we fail to consider God gets the final decision here.

Grace and peace,
Mark