Believers Invest in the Gospel of Getting Rich...

[ANM29]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/us/16gospel.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=nytimes

"Just sow and you won't have any financial struggles in the recession. Oh, there is no recession, everything will be WONDERFUL for Christians while the world is going through."....This is pretty much what is being said..this is sad!


“Any time a worried thought about money pops up in your mind,” Mr. Savelle continued, “the next thing you do is sow”: drop money, like seeds, in “good ground” like the preachers’ ministries. “Stop worrying, start sowing,” he added, his voice rising. “That’s God’s stimulus package for you.”
At that, hundreds streamed down the aisles to the stage, laying envelopes, cash and coins on the carpeted steps.

 

[lismore]

He's absolutely right.

Having hundreds of people streaming down the aisle, giving money to you is your stimulus package to beat the recession.

 

[Simon Peter]

He's absolutely right.

Having hundreds of people streaming down the aisle, giving money to you is your stimulus package to beat the recession.

I wonder if he practices what he preaches?

Maybe I should phone him and ask him to send me some money...so he will be blessed.

 

[lismore]

Based on my financial experience of churches, he will tithe into his own ministry. That way he can take the money out again on the other side plus 25% gift aid from the government. Making 25% profit on the sum.

 

[pinetree]

The most egregious thing about the prosperity meaasage is this..

The "faith seeds" were going to the poor saints in Jerusalem.(2 cor 8-9)

NOT..NOT.to wealthy televangelists,who mostly live in mansions.

When they wield the malachi 3:9 curse,as a way to get tithing,and old covenant practice to extort money..

I say..WOE TO THEM! WOE TO THE FALSE TEACHERS!

Ezekiel 34:1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy, and say to them, even to the shepherds, Thus says the Lord God: Ah, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding yourselves! Should not shepherds feed the sheep? 3 You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, (mansions)you slaughter the fat ones, but you do not feed the sheep.


Not,,, woe to the Christians who are being lied to,and then feel fear or guilt,as though they are "robbing God".

The greedy teachers need to redirect their "woes" on themselves..

Beaten,whipped,sickly Paul,worked,and made it a point to say so.He did not want to burden anyone..

What a faaaaaaarrrrr cry from todays....

Well,it is a family forum,so I will refrain from all the adjectives that come to mind..

 

[marktheblake]

My church preaches this message but my pastor does not receive a salary from the church.

So what is his motivation then?

Like any church, we have a huge electricity bill to pay, and we give all the money we have left over away

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Their is nothing wrong with Prospering as long as it is inside of you prospering first.

Thats more important than the cash anyway. The prosperity msg doesnt always have to mean cash .

 

[pinetree]

Does anyone know if TBN is strictly WOF?
I am not sure,but I think it is.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

I never knew any of them were. I just thought they were Charismatic.

 

[pinetree]

I never knew any of them were. I just thought they were Charismatic.

Yea..I think for the most part it is only WOF,not sure though.
Have a restful day Bill.

 

[DMW]

Well, I happen to be well acquainted with Jerry Savelle ministries, and have been a partner with that ministry for many years. I can tell you absolutely that as an individual, as well as for the ministry that bears his name, Jerry Savelle is an extremely generous and giving person. I know of one instance, for example where the huge church where he was ministering rushed the platform and showered him with money. He didn't ask for it. Afterwards, the church was honest enough to give him the entire amount. He promptly went home, and gave it to a family he knew of the were on the verge of losing their home.
Character assassination is easy when you don't have a clue about the person you are criticizing. But this forum is good at that. It's popular around here to ridicule the part of the Gospel that addresses our financial needs, but Jesus didn't flinch when He preached it and there is no reason for anyone else to either.
Jerry Savelle used to gather pop bottles to put bread on the table for his family when he first started out learning to trust God in the ministry.
He now has close to forty years in the ministry without scandal or compromise. His ministry has meant a great deal to me over the years and I am grateful.

Remember, JESUS promised us the hundredfold return, not some church or minister. He said it would be in this lifetime, but, with persecutions. It's too bad that so much of the persecution comes from unbelieving believers.

 

[Simon Peter]

He promptly went home, and gave it to a family he knew of the were on the verge of losing their home.

That's great, but Jerry Savelle happens to be an exceedingly wealthy pastor. He owns a private jet, a Cessna Citation 500. Hardly a case of the poor widow giving out of her poverty, is it...

And I am more impressed by those who give and don't expect to get it back.



peace,
Simon

 

[DMW]

That's great, but Jerry Savelle happens to be an exceedingly wealthy pastor. He owns a private jet, a Cessna Citation 500. Hardly a case of the poor widow giving out of her poverty, is it...

And I am more impressed by those who give and don't expect to get it back.



peace,
Simon

You miss the point. That is who he is giving to. People he cant expect back from. A large portion of the finances of his ministry goes into a work he started in africa many years ago. I guarantee you, he gets nothing back from them but appreciation.
But I know it is pointless to argue. If God blesses any minister with an airplane or jet, there will always be those who feel that money was robbed from naive poor folks and should have been used exclusively to feed poor people. That was Judas attitude about expensive perfume poured on Jesus too.

 

[Simon Peter]

You miss the point. That is who he is giving to. People he cant expect back from. A large portion of the finances of his ministry goes into a work he started in africa many years ago. I guarantee you, he gets nothing back from them but appreciation.

Hi DMW,

I think you misunderstood a couple of things. Probably my fault for not being clear.

First, I wasn't saying Jerry Savelle expected to get the money back from the indigent family; I was talking about the 'Christian' practice of 'giving to get'. I know the scriptures talk of it occasionally, but God would prefer we give to bless others, not give so that WE will be blessed.

Secondly, I wasn't claiming Savelle used ministry money at all. In fact I didn't even mention his ministry. I assumed the money he gave was his personal money.

My point was about how exceedingly wealthy Savelle is. If giving doesn't hurt, if it's not a real sacrifice, then I'm not that impressed. This was Jesus' observation when he watched the poor widow give all that she had to live on.

But I know it is pointless to argue. If God blesses any minister with an airplane or jet, there will always be those who feel that money was robbed from naive poor folks and should have been used exclusively to feed poor people. That was Judas attitude about expensive perfume poured on Jesus too.

Thirdly, I agree that it's wrong to expect that all of Savelle's money should be given to the poor. I hope you weren't saying I was among "those who feel that..."

Lastly, Judas' crime wasn't that he wanted money spent on the poor. Judas' crime was that he took the Lord's money for himself. I feel pity for any pastor that does that.


5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages."
6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.
John 12:5-6 NIV



peace,
Simon

 

[DMW]

Simon

Sorry, I shouldn't be so thin-skinned or jump to conclusions. But I know that ministry to be one of integrity and I feel people are too quick to criticize without knowing all the facts.

 

[JSGuitarist]

It's not the fact they're rich that bothers me, but how they got it.

 

[pinetree]

Read the tone of Paul,what a differnce to those who live on others money,that they command it be given..

Paul worked,let todays preachers learn.If you want some to learn about the widow,lets learn from aallll scripture.


Notice first..not a command.

2 Cor 8:8
I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others.

Not if one does not have it.

2 Cor 8:12
For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have.

Then we see Paul wanted equality,not exactly what we see today,where the poor give to the rich..

The "faith seeds" were to go the the poor saints in Jerusalem,not the rich preacher!


Paul also quoted the OT..so he felt it was important to have equality.

Notice also where he says..”not that others would be relieved,while you are hard pressed”

See he did not want to burden anyone..fairness was important.

2 Cor 8:13-15

Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. 14At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality, 15as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

On to the next chapter..#9..

Notice what the greek meaning in this verse is,for compulsion..IE tithing,or any other rule laid upon the saint..

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.


anagke 318

1) necessity, imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of
duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument
2) calamity, distress, straits



This is a bad light to the world,,opulent preachers..

Look how Paul cared about how folks viewed the church..

2 Cor 6:3
We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.

And here too..

2 Cor 8:20
We want to avoid any criticism of the way we administer this liberal gift. 21For we are taking pains to do what is right, not only in the eyes of the Lord but also in the eyes of men.

Now on to Paul working..

1 Corinthians 9:6
Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living?

Notice next he did not want to be a burden,unlike how it is today.We see to have a new kingship of those who forget Paul preached himself as a SERVANT.

1 Thessalonians 2:9
For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God.

Here it is again,they worked not to be a burden..

2 Thessalonians 3:7-9
For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.

Ok,on to acts..

Acts 20:33-35
I coveted no one's silver or gold or apparel. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. 35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Paul and Peter both said,leaders cant be greedy,Greed in in a list of awful things in 1 Cor 6.

1 Timothy 3:3
not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

1 Peter 5:2
Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;

Titus 1:7
For the bishop (an overseer) as God's steward must be blameless, not self-willed or arrogant or presumptuous; he must not be quick-tempered or given to drink or pugnacious (brawling, violent); he must not be grasping and greedy for filthy lucre (financial gain);

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

The gospel of getting rich is a sham no matter how you put it.
I tremble with fear when I think about how HOLY my GOD is compared to myself...there is no comparison.
Rich?
There are no riches on this earth period.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

That's great, but Jerry Savelle happens to be an exceedingly wealthy pastor. He owns a private jet, a Cessna Citation 500. Hardly a case of the poor widow giving out of her poverty, is it...

And I am more impressed by those who give and don't expect to get it back.



peace,
Simon

Exactly...I don't think Jesus was talking about having more than the poor to which we give.

 

[lismore]

Very good post pinetree