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Belief is not a choice

Discussion in 'Exploring Christianity' started by Blindwatchmaker, Feb 28, 2021.

  1. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I choose what I believe, so I suggest you go convince someone else.

    And you're an Atheist, why do you care? I mean what is the point of you guys constantly popping in and trying to ruin our faith?

    Why is our having faith such a bother to you?
     
  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    You start with: he's God, you're not.
     
  3. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    You popped into the conversation, I did not ask you to.

    This conversation had nothing to do with faith but everything to do with how we determine truth. Isn't how we come to believe something is true important to you?
     
  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So?

    If you'd rather not answer, that's fine.
     
  5. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    The straight way of the LORD is only a pretzel to the wayward.
     
  6. TedT

    TedT Member since Job 38:7

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    Pre-earth, pre-humans and only with GOD's word...it is a choice without proof based upon your hopes for HIS claims to be true or untrue.
     
  7. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    And that is why satan blinds people to the truth, God's free gift of eternal life.

    He does this in many ways, the sad part is not the ones who hate God but the ones who seem to love God but simply can not see how to receive God's free gift of eternal life.
     
  8. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    I suppose the argument will now shift to one's disposition being a matter of choice too.
    disposition | dɪspəˈzɪʃ(ə)n |
    noun: a person's inherent qualities of mind and character.

    I can't change whether or not I find something convincing any more than you can.
     
  9. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    So you are conceding the point that given how my mind operates as a consequence of how I was born (a matter in which I was not given a choice), that I am unable to be convinced by arguments that others such as yourself find convincing.

    That is indeed the point of this entire thread.
     
  10. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    By this do you mean that if one creature creates another, the second creature should have no right to question the ethics of the first?
    If I have a child, is the child not entitled to question my morality if I punish her for the colour of her eyes or for not being intelligent or quick enough?

    Does the fact that I 'created' her render her ethical opinions of me worthless because she is just a pot and I am a potter?

    What a horrible thought.
    I want my children to judge me in any way they see fit and I hope that I behave with enough compassion and kindness to earn their love and respect rather than demand it because I MADE them.
     
  11. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    Well said.
    Thank you Clare.
    You are 100% right.

    I and many like me do not have the ability to believe that which we do not find convincing.
    Ironically, neither do you or anyone else.

    I'm glad we got there.
     
  12. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    So you are saying that the fact that I don't find any of the arguments for God or Christianity (or any other faith for that matter) convincing is NOT my fault.
    It's because Satan has done something to me which makes my brain operate differently?

    In that case, God is punishing ME for something Satan has done.

    This would be like me locking my child in his room to make him late for school, and then the school beating and torturing him because I did that.

    That surely cannot be ethical???
     
  13. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Precisely. . .no one can. . .you have to be given new one.
     
  14. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Yes, I agree. . .and what is more I didn't find them convincing either.
     
  15. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    God is not a creature.
    If I make a clay pot, it has no "rights" against me. It didn't even exist until I made it. I own it entirely
     
  16. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    And who is going to give me a new disposition?
    I've had this one most of my life.
     
  17. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    The verse in the Bible that states this does not say satan blinds every single unbeliever.

    Actually you have judged yourself and have decided you do not want God free gift of Eternal Life.

    Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, “It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

    If you did not have the witness of the Bible and Gods creation, you may could claim God is unethical.
     
  18. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That's the work of the Holy Spirit.

    If you want one, you should pray for it.
     
  19. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    You are incorrect.
    This is not about what I want or don't want.
    I made a decision as a young man with an inquiring mind to follow the evidence wherever it leads.
    I simply don't find the claims of Christianity any more convincing than the claims of any other religion.
    They all seem decidedly man made to me.
    I could be wrong of course and am open to being so.
    But I can only be convinced of what I find convincing.
    Which is the same for you and everyone else too.

    I bet you don't spend one second worrying about going to Islamic Hell even though muslims would say that's where you and I are heading. Why don't you?
    Because you simply don't find their claims convincing. (Just like me.)

    But it's not a choice. You couldnt suddenly decide to believe them any more than you can decide to believe in Santa.
     
  20. Blindwatchmaker

    Blindwatchmaker Member

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    But prayer in the absence of belief in God is not honest.
    I don't believe that any gods exist so a prayer to a god would not be authentic.
    I would feel like I was pretending (which I would be.)

    If God exists and wants me to know him, he knows where I am.
     
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