Being conformed

[98cwitr]

Thanks for all the information.

What ive noticed is that the bad can do some good and the good can do some bad.
I know a young man.... he's about 26, and he drinks. Otherwise, he's a fine person.
Loving, honest, good.
A few weeks ago, he was drinking, as was his girlfriend, and they got into a fight because she felt he was not totally faithful. (unproven) So, under the influence, she literally attacked him in a drinking induced jealous rage, and was hitting and kicking. Well, he's big. 6'1", 218lbs, and reflexed a right hand into her face that broke her nose, and cracked a tooth and left her in a pile on the floor. So he is at once shocked into a state of panic and regret..
This is "felony battery", and COURT is on the way, with a Judge.
So, did God cause them to fight and end up like that, or did they let things get out of hand?
He's born again and im not certain about the woman.
So, i never give God credit for everything, as i can't see how that works out, in all cases.
-
-
Christians can behave worse than unbelievers, and some unbelievers are better than many Christians, regarding their behavior.

I know that you will probably read what i just wrote, and i believe neither Satan nor God chose you to do it.
I believe you chose to be here, because your will to do so, is free to choose this act.
Im here because im responding to people who are responding to me.
I could unplug and put on my headphones and listen to music, or go and see if UPS delivered my package, yet.
But im choosing to be with you, and with the other members, for a little while longer today.
Tomorrow, if God allows me to be alive and the world to be mostly the same, unlike what is happening right now in Israel, i hope to be back here to listen and share.
MY CHOICE.
MY will.

Currently, Im writing back to you.
I choose to do this, because i have the free will to choose to respond to you.
Being able to choose whatever you want to do next, is your freewill in action.
Your choices are not limited to anything other than time, money, being alive, place, and more choices.

You can choose right now, to not respond to me.
God didnt choose that for you, you will decide this.
The only way God would decide it, is if you stopped and asked Him, and He told you....>"don't respond".

God even gave Christ the option to not go to the Cross and Jesus was born for this purpose.
Christ CHOSE to do His Father's will....."not my will.......but YOURS".
Thats a choice between 2 wills and Christ freely made that Choice.
He was not made to do it.


I talk to buddhists, or anyone actually, all over the world, and a French Buddhist (Gwladys) was talking to me one evening about destiny and the grand design, and how we are just flesh puppets at the whim of whatever you call the "force".... God, etc.....and I said...so, if you go to your kitchen late tonight, and a roach is on the floor, and it runs.
Are you saying that God designed this..... millions of years ago, created this moment, when you would go into your kitchen, and see the roach and react. God crated this bug to be there, at that time, and you to be hungry at this same time, and go and see the bug. And God decided which way the roach will run, and how fast, and how long you will stand there......and what you would do next.
All this is pre-determined? pre-destined? Your Destiny ??????

So, they didnt really want to talk more right then.

Another thing.........how can God hold you accountable for the Choice of Christ rejection, if He made you reject Christ.?
How could God be just and honest and a "loving God", and do that to anyone.?

I'd like to unpack this by asking a question:

What is a Christian?

 

[fhansen]

You are saying that God's Blood is not sufficient, and He needs you, the saved sinner, to finish His Blood Atonement.

No I'm not. I'm saying that God can save me however He wants, and if that includes using me, His weak and fallen vessel, pulling me up out of the pit and strengthening me (Phil 4:13) to do His will yet without completely overriding mine precisely because He wants to -and can- make something worthwhile and greater out of me, then that's His choice, according to His perfect and wisdom and will. In Christianity we cannot possibly be saved without God-we're lost and wouldn't even begin to know where to start, but He elects not to save us without us, without our cooperation.

 

[disciple Clint]

You asked why so many are trying to change the faith of other believers?

Well, if the devil can't keep you from being saved, then he'll try to ruin your faith for life, and he uses people to do it.

I never think of a "christian forum" as anything other then a online church where people should be able to go and grow.
Ive talked to forum owners and have been told that...>"well, we allow anyone to teach anything at all times, as long as they don't attack each other personally, etc". "As long as noone is extremely rude, we just let it run"..
And so i asked them.....>"but you would not allow this in your church. You would not just allow anyone who believes what you dont believe, to get in your pulpit, or teach your Sunday School"...
No one can answer this who owns a Forum, and that is why forums , all of them, are such hotbeds of chaos and confusion, with "you've been banned" as how they try to keep the fires under control.

Interesting, isn't it.

What I find interesting is that everyone thinks that their beliefs are the only correct one and everyone else has to be wrong but I would suggest that when we meet Jesus and discuss Theology He is going to be on the ground rolling in laughter over some of the things He never conceived that anyone could believe. I agree that there are some basics that we need to believe but there is also an incredible amount of stuff that makes no real difference to our salvation. Keep in mind what Jesus said we need to do to be saved, anything beyond that is open to debate but of little to no significance. AND yes I am guilty of correcting people who come up with things that have little to no foundation in the Bible or in generally accepted orthodox Theology.

 

[Sidon]

I'd like to unpack this by asking a question:

What is a Christian?

A). A born agan Christian is a Son of God.

= made so by the blood atonement making them as righteous as "the righteousness of God, In Christ".
So, this is the establishment of the born again believer in Christ : AS "One with God and Christ".

This is eternal.

So, what has happened is, the dead spirit in an unbeliever who has believed in Jesus after hearing the Gospel, has been Spiritually BIRTHED as a "NEW CREATION" into the very Spirit of God, BY the Holy Spirit of God.
Each born again person has BECOME "ONE WITH GOD and Christ", = Spiritually.
This is the "new man".

This means that each born again have become a part of THE ETERNAL LIFE, who is JESUS.
Eternal life is Jesus..... Its not a time period. This is why Christ tells us that if we BELIEVE IN HIM< then He "gives to us Eternal life" and that life is Christ Himself IN YOU>...>"the hope of Glory".
And this new birth actually places us into the same righteousness as ADAM before he fell.

So, you have the 2nd Adam, who is Jesus The God man, restoring you back to 1st Adam status, by His Blood, which makes you as righteous as : the "Gift of Righteousness", which is "the Gift of Salvation".

So, each born again person is now a new creation "in Christ", and they-we now exist as "translated from darkness TO Light", (Kingdom of God), which has caused us to become :

1. Heir of God
2. Joint Heir with Christ
3. Temple of the Holy Spirit
4. Saint
5. "as Jesus IS so ARE the born again IN THIS WORLD".

 

[Sidon]

No I'm not. I'm saying that God can save me however He wants, .

No, God does not save you any way He wants, as in "whatever".

God is bound by His word, and God has created atonement based on BLOOD sacrifice.
"without the shedding of BLOOD", there is no salvation for any of us.
This is why GOD came down here as a Man, and shed His blood for the world.
John 3:16
So, there is NO OTHER SALVATION then the blood of Jesus.
Not by works, not by water, not by buddha.

The CROSS is God's final offer to be restored into His righteousness.

Jesus is THE WAY.

There is no other way.
Not by water, not be enduring, not by commandment keeping.

If we go to God, its BY Christ's BLood., only.

John 14:6

 

[fhansen]

No, God does not save you any way He wants, as in "whatever".

God is bound by His word, and God has created atonement based on BLOOD sacrifice.
"without the shedding of BLOOD", there is no salvation for any of us.
This is why GOD came down here as a Man, and shed His blood for the world.
John 3:16
So, there is NO OTHER SALVATION then the blood of Jesus.
Not by works, not by water, not by buddha.

The CROSS is God's final offer to be restored into His righteousness.

Jesus is THE WAY.

There is no other way.
Not by water, not be enduring, not by commandment keeping.

If we go to God, its BY Christ's BLood., only.

John 14:6

As I said, there’s no other way but God. And, yes, He saves us by whatever means He deems right. Not all are saved by Jesus. A person is required to have faith, first of all, a gift of grace that we can accept or reject, in order to enter the family of God, and be in communion with Him. From there he’s expected to live like a member of God's family, still made possible only by continuing in that grace, living by the Spirit. And if you deny that you’re denying His Word.

 

[4UallPraise]

+ Acts 16:30-31 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” + Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Salvation by no other name means what? If Christ is light of the world does that mean He is the revelation of God? I believe it does. The last book of the bible is entitled revelation by Jesus. There is no other name above that of Christ, but most come in another name, inferior god, usually self.

“For the believer there is hope beyond the grave, because Jesus Christ has opened the door to heaven for us by His death and resurrection.” Who stands at the gate? Not Peter, because Peter is not the mediator between God and mankind.

Believing is Seeing, but Seeing is not Believing John 11:38-57 If we believe in Christ, we will see the glory of God; but if we see miracles without believing we will be hardened in our sin. The only believable seeing is knowing from what depth salvation comes from and to what heights one has been raised. That is salvational seeing upon hearing.

John the Baptist was the first but least in the kingdom, born with the Holy Spirit inherently. The baptism of repentance that John gave as the example of Apollo shows, still needs the baptism of fire in the knowledge of Christ to gain the higher ground.

 

[Sidon]

As I said, there’s no other way but God. And, yes, He saves us by whatever means He deems right. Not all are saved by Jesus. A person is required to have faith, first of all, a gift of grace that we can accept or reject, in order to enter the family of God, and be in communion with Him. From there he’s expected to live like a member of God's family, still made possible only by continuing in that grace, living by the Spirit. And if you deny that you’re denying His Word.

Once you are born again, you are always born again.
There is no changing this... because the birth God gives you, you dont control, as you didn't cause it.
Can you stop being born?
Thats a no.

But, this standing you have, as a born again Son of God, is not always reflected by behavior, yet, its not changed by behavior.
Our salvation , being born again, is our STANDING.
Our feelings, our moods, our discipleship, on any given day, is our STATE.

We are made righteous by God's blood, and we can't change this....we can't stop being "In Christ".
Yet, our discipleship, which is our part, has to be maintained and it has to grow into perfection.

James teaches that faith, (not salvation) can become cold, hard, and dead.
So, we are to be mindful of this, and continually, by God's Grace, perform our discipleship.
We are told to "work out our salvation" but that is not to try to keep it,...but to work it out .....
We work out what we possess, and that is to learn how to function within what we already have, as provided by God's Grace.

 

[disciple Clint]

Once you are born again, you are always born again.
There is no changing this... because the birth God gives you, you dont control, as you didn't cause it.
Can you stop being born?
Thats a no.

But, this standing you have, as a born again Son of God, is not always reflected by behavior, yet, its not changed by behavior.
Our salvation , being born again, is our STANDING.
Our feelings, our moods, our discipleship, on any given day, is our STATE.

We are made righteous by God's blood, and we can't change this....we can't stop being "In Christ".
Yet, our discipleship, which is our part, has to be maintained and it has to grow into perfection.

James teaches that faith, (not salvation) can become cold, hard, and dead.
So, we are to be mindful of this, and continually, by God's Grace, perform our discipleship.
We are told to "work out our salvation" but that is not to try to keep it,...but to work it out .....
We work out what we possess, and that is to learn how to function within what we already have, as provided by God's Grace.

How do you explain the unpardonable sin? What happens if we reject Jesus, call him the devil, and reject our salvation?

 

[Sidon]

What I find interesting is that everyone thinks that their beliefs are the only correct one and everyone else has to be wrong

Well 2 things to consider.

1.) If someone's theology does not agree with Paul's, then game over.

Galatians 1:8

2.) There will be no denominations in Heaven

Denominations are man made, and are THE result of. : "our group does not agree theologically with your group's error"......etc.

Satan love's denominations, as these are WALLS and they are CONFUSION.

 

[disciple Clint]

Well 2 things to consider.

1.) If someone's theology does not agree with Paul's, then game over.

Galatians 1:8

2.) There will be no denominations in Heaven

Denominations are man made, and are THE result of. : "our group does not agree theologically with your group's error"......etc.

Satan love's denominations, as these are WALLS and they are CONFUSION.

If someone's theology does not agree with Paul's, then game over.

The beauty with Paul is that he can be interpreted so many, many, ways, which is what has caused most of the denominational divisions.

 

[Sidon]

How do you explain the unpardonable sin? What happens if we reject Jesus, call him the devil, and reject our salvation?

A.) The blood atonement... The shed blood of Jesus.

God offers this, as John 3:16.

To the "world".....to as many as "believe".

So, that is GOD's pardon for everyone, offered 2000 yrs ago.
If you reject this blood sacrifice pardon, then you die un-pardoned. You die unforgiven. You die LOST.
Jesus explains this as "if you do not believe in me, you will die IN your SINS">

Listen Reader, there is only one sin that God can't forgive.
Its the sin of rejecting God's forgiveness.
How can God give you the blood of Jesus as your redemption, if you REJECT IT. ?
He can't.....> as you rejected it.

So, the unpardonable sin, is when a person rejects God's forgiveness. = rejects Christ and dies.
In that case, God can't forgive you in eternity, as you have rejected God's eternal forgiveness on earth.
This is the ONE and ONLY, unpardonable sin.
Its Christ Rejection.

If you reject Christ, God can't forgive you.
So, that is the one SIN, that is not pardonable. = The Unpardonable sin.

Disciple Clint, look at this verse. John 3:36

It says that God's judgement is already on the unbelievers, while they are still breathing.
The unbelievers are already damned, before they die.
THIS is the unpardonable sin, being committed by all unbelievers.
They are not waiting to be damned, they are already damned.
Hell is already theirs, they are just waiting to Go.
And they way you get out of that damnation that is already on you, if you are not born again, is to believe in Jesus and be born again.... and then the unpardonable sin is no longer being committed by you.

Most Christians have the false idea that after death an unbeliever is going to be judged for their lifetime of sinning.
But that is not the case, reader.
They will only be judged for ONE Sin.
The sin of CHRIST REJECTION, as that one, is the unpardonable sin, and they have committed it.
That is their damnation. = Christ Rejection.

 

[fhansen]

Once you are born again, you are always born again.
There is no changing this... because the birth God gives you, you dont control, as you didn't cause it.
Can you stop being born?
Thats a no.

But, this standing you have, as a born again Son of God, is not always reflected by behavior, yet, its not changed by behavior.
Our salvation , being born again, is our STANDING.
Our feelings, our moods, our discipleship, on any given day, is our STATE.

We are made righteous by God's blood, and we can't change this....we can't stop being "In Christ".
Yet, our discipleship, which is our part, has to be maintained and it has to grow into perfection.

James teaches that faith, (not salvation) can become cold, hard, and dead.
So, we are to be mindful of this, and continually, by God's Grace, perform our discipleship.
We are told to "work out our salvation" but that is not to try to keep it,...but to work it out .....
We work out what we possess, and that is to learn how to function within what we already have, as provided by God's Grace.

Great. It’s ironic when we’ve arrived at the point of believing that faith relieves us from the obligation to be personally righteous and behave accordingly, when in truth faith and the new covenant are all about finally providing us the authentic means to obtaining that righteousness-that we were created to have. God didn’t create man to be a sinner after all. So we have verses such as:

For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours. Matt 6:14-15

“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” Matt 19:17

“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“…just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Rom 5:21

"For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." Rom 6:14

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. Rom 6:22

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:3-4

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.” Rom 8:12-13

“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Heb 12:14

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. 1 John 3:4-8

 

[disciple Clint]

A.) The blood atonement... The shed blood of Jesus.

God offers this, as John 3:16.

To the "world".....to as many as "believe".

So, that is GOD's pardon for everyone, offered 2000 yrs ago.
If you reject this blood sacrifice pardon, then you die un-pardoned. You die unforgiven. You die LOST.
Jesus explains this as "if you do not believe in me, you will die IN your SINS">

Listen Reader, there is only one sin that God can't forgive.
Its the sin of rejecting God's forgiveness.
How can God give you the blood of Jesus as your redemption, if you REJECT IT. ?
He can't.....> as you rejected it.

So, the unpardonable sin, is when a person rejects God's forgiveness. = rejects Christ and dies.
In that case, God can't forgive you in eternity, as you have rejected God's eternal forgiveness on earth.
This is the ONE and ONLY, unpardonable sin.
Its Christ Rejection.

If you reject Christ, God can't forgive you.
So, that is the one SIN, that is not pardonable. = The Unpardonable sin.

Disciple Clint, look at this verse. John 3:36

It says that God's judgement is already on the unbelievers, while they are still breathing.
The unbelievers are already damned, before they die.
THIS is the unpardonable sin, being committed by all unbelievers.
They are not waiting to be damned, they are already damned.
Hell is already theirs, they are just waiting to Go.
And they way you get out of that damnation that is already on you, if you are not born again, is to believe in Jesus and be born again.... and then the unpardonable sin is no longer being committed by you.

Most Christians have the false idea that after death an unbeliever is going to be judged for their lifetime of sinning.
But that is not the case, reader.
They will only be judged for ONE Sin.
The sin of CHRIST REJECTION, as that one, is the unpardonable sin, and they have committed it.
That is their damnation. = Christ Rejection.

So clearly by your standards if someone accepts salvation and then later rejects it they are not saved, that seems to be in conflict with your op

 

[disciple Clint]

A.) The blood atonement... The shed blood of Jesus.

God offers this, as John 3:16.

To the "world".....to as many as "believe".

So, that is GOD's pardon for everyone, offered 2000 yrs ago.
If you reject this blood sacrifice pardon, then you die un-pardoned. You die unforgiven. You die LOST.
Jesus explains this as "if you do not believe in me, you will die IN your SINS">

Listen Reader, there is only one sin that God can't forgive.
Its the sin of rejecting God's forgiveness.
How can God give you the blood of Jesus as your redemption, if you REJECT IT. ?
He can't.....> as you rejected it.

So, the unpardonable sin, is when a person rejects God's forgiveness. = rejects Christ and dies.
In that case, God can't forgive you in eternity, as you have rejected God's eternal forgiveness on earth.
This is the ONE and ONLY, unpardonable sin.
Its Christ Rejection.

If you reject Christ, God can't forgive you.
So, that is the one SIN, that is not pardonable. = The Unpardonable sin.

Disciple Clint, look at this verse. John 3:36

It says that God's judgement is already on the unbelievers, while they are still breathing.
The unbelievers are already damned, before they die.
THIS is the unpardonable sin, being committed by all unbelievers.
They are not waiting to be damned, they are already damned.
Hell is already theirs, they are just waiting to Go.
And they way you get out of that damnation that is already on you, if you are not born again, is to believe in Jesus and be born again.... and then the unpardonable sin is no longer being committed by you.

Most Christians have the false idea that after death an unbeliever is going to be judged for their lifetime of sinning.
But that is not the case, reader.
They will only be judged for ONE Sin.
The sin of CHRIST REJECTION, as that one, is the unpardonable sin, and they have committed it.
That is their damnation. = Christ Rejection.

Most Christians have the false idea that after death an unbeliever is going to be judged for their lifetime of sinning.
But that is not the case, reader.
They will only be judged for ONE Sin

But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. Matthew 12:36
Ecclesiastes 3:17
I said in my heart, "God will judge the righteous and the wicked, since there is a time for every activity and every deed."

 

[ozso]

The beauty with Paul is that he can be interpreted so many, many, ways, which is what has caused most of the denominational divisions.

I wonder how much of those many many interpretations is based on select snippets, rather than the overall message. It wasn't until centuries later that the manuscripts were broken up into individual verses. I kind of wonder if broken isn't the keyword regarding that process.

 

[Sidon]

---------------

 

[Sidon]

Great. It’s ironic when we’ve arrived at the point of believing that faith relieves us from the obligation to be personally righteous and behave accordingly,

Being born again does not relieve you from being righteous, but rather the fact that a person is born again proves that God has Made them Righteous.
A born again person "is the righteousness OF GOD, IN Christ".
A born again person has God's Righteousness.
If they didnt, then they would still have their sin, and they would not be "ONE WITH GOD, AND CHRIST".

Remember Lucifer?
He was cast out of heaven. Why? Because sin (iniquity) was FOUND IN Him.
So, if its found in us, we wont be going to heaven. So, herein lies the eternal problem.. We can't get rid of it, and we can't make ourselves Righteous.

So, GOD came down here as Jesus THE CHRIST, and shed His blood to resolve the sin issue for the WORLD.
This is the power of the BLood of Jesus. It has resolved the sin of the world....
BUT, there is a catch.....
The catch is, .. God has to personally redeem you with the BLood of Jesus.....per person.
Each person has to do what Christ commanded. And Jesus said... "you MUST be born again".
And that happens only when each person trusts in Jesus.... as God receives your faith to justify you.
"faith is counted AS Righteousness".
"Justification by faith".

See, being born again is the only proof that you are going to heaven. And why? Because it is the only proof that God has redeemed you with the Blood of Jesus.

People can talk all day and night about law and torah and commandment keeping and lifestyle, and "presenting your body a living sacrifice".
But Jesus said..>"you must be BORN again". and He's not kidding.

 

[fhansen]

Being born again does not relieve you from being righteous, but rather the fact that a person is born again proves that God has Made them Righteous.
A born again person "is the righteousness OF GOD, IN Christ".
A born again person has God's Righteousness.
If they didnt, then they would still have their sin, and they would not be "ONE WITH GOD, AND CHRIST".

Remember Lucifer?
He was cast out of heaven. Why? Because sin (iniquity) was FOUND IN Him.
So, if its found in us, we wont be going to heaven. So, herein lies the eternal problem.. We can't get rid of it, and we can't make ourselves Righteous.

So, GOD came down here as Jesus THE CHRIST, and shed His blood to resolve the sin issue for the WORLD.
This is the power of the BLood of Jesus. It has resolved the sin of the world....
BUT, there is a catch.....
The catch is, .. God has to personally redeem you with the BLood of Jesus.....per person.
Each person has to do what Christ commanded. And Jesus said... "you MUST be born again".
And that happens only when each person trusts in Jesus.... as God receives your faith to justify you.
"faith is counted AS Righteousness".
"Justification by faith".

See, being born again is the only proof that you are going to heaven. And why? Because it is the only proof that God has redeemed you with the Blood of Jesus.

People can talk all day and night about law and torah and commandment keeping and lifestyle, and "presenting your body a living sacrifice".
But Jesus said..>"you must be BORN again". and He's not kidding.

So are you saying you're sinless, always doing Gods will, or just a snow-covered dung-heap instead? do you ever struggle with sin, because if you do you haven't fully arrived yet where you need to be. you're like the rest of the world, but on the right road.

 

[ozso]

So are you saying you're sinless, always doing Gods will, or just a snow-covered dung-heap instead? do you ever struggle with sin, because if you do you haven't fully arrived yet where you need to be. you're like the rest of the world, but on the right road.

I never cared much for R.C. Sproul's snow covered dung analogy. I believe what Sidon is expressing is described pretty well by Dr. Hank Lindstrom (6 min video).