Behold, I come as a thief!

[rockytopva]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 15:16

 

[Southernscotty]

Amen, I fully expect Jesus to come back in the air at any moment. I know He will not come to earth the first time, as we children are to meet Him in the air. "Hello my name is Scotty and I am a Pretribber" :]

 

[RaymondG]

Amen, I fully expect Jesus to come back in the air at any moment. I know He will not come to earth the first time, as we children are to meet Him in the air. "Hello my name is Scotty and I am a Pretribber" :]

Do you expect to see Him with your physical eyes? Do you believe your physical body will fly in the air?

 

[Southernscotty]

I do not know, I just know in a twinkling of an eye the dead shall be raised imperishable and then us who are alive in Christ will be caught up to him. I don't know if we will see Him "physically" at that particular moment, but I do believe our bodies will be changed into uncorrupted ones at that time.

 

[Erik Nelson]

still offer that the Messiah already came stealthily through the physical terrestrial implement of victorious Christian emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD. The ensuing thousand year heyday of Medieval Christianity at the height of Constantinople was the Millennium.

 

[Southernscotty]

still offer that the Messiah already came stealthily through the physical terrestrial implement of victorious Christian emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD. The ensuing thousand year heyday of Medieval Christianity at the height of Constantinople was the Millennium.

Sorry friend, I had to say this.. I honestly hope it isn't offensive because I am just joking with ya:]

 

[Dave G.]

Amen, I fully expect Jesus to come back in the air at any moment. I know He will not come to earth the first time, as we children are to meet Him in the air. "Hello my name is Scotty and I am a Pretribber" :]

I don't think everyone has been witnessed to yet. If there is a pretrib rapture at all I think it's still a ways off. In terms of history we are closer than ever of course. Not that He needs a specific reason but it does say when the gospel is spread to all the world. It could be 1000 years away yet for all we know. Yes I know there are lots of signs and many Christians can almost taste it approaching, myself included. But once again, His time is not our time. We simply don't know. I'm also not 100% convinced that the rapture is pre trip either. Besides my grand daughter is not saved yet, was working on that last year when her mother ended that. Now she has turned 18 though.

 

[Southernscotty]

I don't think everyone has been witnessed to yet. If there is a pretrib rapture at all I think it's still a ways off. In terms of history we are closer than ever of course. Not that He needs a specific reason but it does say when the gospel is spread to all the world. It could be 1000 years away yet for all we know. Yes I know there are lots of signs and many Christians can almost taste it approaching, myself included. But once again, His time is not our time. We simply don't know. I'm also not 100% convinced that the rapture is pre trip either. Besides my grand daughter is not saved yet, was working on that last year when her mother ended that. Now she has turned 18 though.

I understand brother and I will be praying for your granddaughter Sir. I do not pretend to know it all and I am learning daily, I agree that it may be close and yet, It may not? I just do not know, But what I do know is that it will happen as the bible states and not how we interpret it :]

 

[Dave G.]

still offer that the Messiah already came stealthily through the physical terrestrial implement of victorious Christian emperor Constantine in the 4th century AD. The ensuing thousand year heyday of Medieval Christianity at the height of Constantinople was the Millennium.

I hate to tell you but there is nothing stealth about the second coming of Jesus Christ. And in your theory how do the 144,000 Jews come into play, the ones who witness to all the world in the time of great tribulation, the ones called to do so because there doesn't seem to be any other Christians around to do so. When did that happen and where ?

 

[dreadnought]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 15:16

Actually, that's Revelation 16:15, not 15:16.

 

[Dave G.]

I understand brother and I will be praying for your granddaughter Sir. I do not pretend to know it all and I am learning daily, I agree that it may be close and yet, It may not? I just do not know, But what I do know is that it will happen as the bible states and not how we interpret it :]

Thanks. Ya, her mom informed me back at Christmas time that her daughter has her whole life to determine what direction her spirituality will go. The thing is she was listening and seeking then. But hey God presented opportunities last summer for me to speak with her and maybe I planted a seed at least. What I do know is I followed orders, that was my part. Towards end of summer this year she goes away to college. Incidentally she used think there was no God and fwiw her mom and her are Catholic.

 

[sdowney717]

Yes, the whole world is witness to the second coming, and Christ has not come yet a second time.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

AND this, Christ's disciples were told by heavens angels Christ would return in the same manner as He ascended, so Christ descends to earth again (futurism) which the angels are saying there is only the second coming to come, not a third or fourth whatever other people claim already happened.
Act 1
Jesus Ascends to Heaven
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,

11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Thanks. Ya, her mom informed me back at Christmas time that her daughter has her whole life to determine what direction her spirituality will go. The thing is she was listening and seeking then. But hey God presented opportunities last summer for me to speak with her and maybe I planted a seed at least. What I do know is I followed orders, that was my part. Towards end of summer this year she goes away to college. Incidentally she used think there was no God and fwiw her mom and her are Catholic.

I have sent up a prayer for your grandaughter's salvation. Lord Jesus will save her. Don't worry. Just start thanking the Lord for her salvation.

Lord Jesus can appear at any minute.Every eye is going to see Him. It will not be secret .

 

[BABerean2]

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. - Revelation 15:16

In context...

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

.

 

[Dave G.]

I have sent up a prayer for your grandaughter's salvation. Lord Jesus will save her. Don't worry. Just start thanking the Lord for her salvation.

Lord Jesus can appear at any minute.Every eye is going to see Him. It will not be secret .

Thank you for your prayer handmaid.

Actually in pretrib everyone doesn't see him at the rapture, only His people even hear that particular trumpet. The only sign He was in the clouds is the Christians are all gone from earth and the chaos of their having departed ( i'm sure you've seen the movies of this stuff). The rapture is imminent and can come at any time but at the end of the 7 years of Jacobs Trouble, He actually should be expected it's just no man knows the hour but everyone will see Him then... At the second coming ( the end of tribulation) everyone sees Him, even those who never wanted to. Now if there is no pre trib we don't have missing Christians up front and the whole scenario plays out differently and it also means that the Christians go through at least the beginning of Jacobs trouble and perhaps through the 3-1/2 years of Great Tribulation ( depends on if it's mid trib or post trib rapture). There is no great tribulation till the second part of the fake 7 year peace agreement, so while the period of 7 years is tribulation , the Great Tribulation part and the nasty stuff is not till the second half..

So there is a rapture, it's in scripture without doubt. The time period as to how it plays into the end times is unclear. Let me just say I expect to live out my normal life span and die a normal death but anything God might do wouldn't surprise me either. I'm 68, I don't expect to see much past 88 either way, so I'm in the end times anyway, actually by my gene pool I'm on overtime now LOL !

 

[sdowney717]

I have sent up a prayer for your grandaughter's salvation. Lord Jesus will save her. Don't worry. Just start thanking the Lord for her salvation.

Lord Jesus can appear at any minute.Every eye is going to see Him. It will not be secret .

Yes, all will see Him even they which pierced Him, so even those who are dead and went to hell,(those under the earth), will witness His return. All will acknowledge Him as Lord, every knee will bow and every tongue confess this. There will be a ressurection of all who died, those in Christ, and those not.

Philippians 2:9-11 New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[sdowney717]

Thank you for your prayer handmaid.

Actually in pretrib everyone doesn't see him at the rapture, only His people even hear that particular trumpet. The only sign He was in the clouds is the Christians are all gone from earth and the chaos of their departing. The rapture is imminent and can come at any time but at the end of the 7 years of Jacobs Trouble, He actually should be expected it's just no man knows the hour.. At the second coming ( the end of tribulation) everyone sees Him, even those who never wanted to. Now if there is no pre trib we don't have missing Christians up front and that whole scenario plays out differently and it also means that the Christians go through at least the beginning of Jacobs trouble and perhaps through the 3-1/2 years of Great Tribulation ( depends on if it's mid trib or post trib rapture). There is no great tribulation till the second part of the fake 7 year peace agreement, so while the period of 7 years is tribulation , the Great Tribulation part and the nasty stuff is not till the second half..

So there is a rapture, it's in scripture without doubt. The time period as to how it plays into the end times is unclear. Let me just say I expect to live out my normal life span and die a normal death but anything God might do wouldn't surprise me either. I'm 68, I don't expect to see much past 88 either way, so I'm in the end times anyway, actually by my gene pool I'm on overtime now LOL !

Daniel 7 bears witness to the saints being persecuted by the beast, the saints do not receive the dominion and the kingdom till the end after the destruction of the antichrist, the little horn..
That is how I see this, that the rapture occurs at the end of the great tribulation, with the return of Christ, and it is only then when the saints inherit the earth. So also therefore, Dominionism is wrong as it teaches Christ can not return until the world is Christinized by the people of God taking dominion from the beast. But this is not what God says happens. Of course a Dominionist must say that Daniel 7 is already in the past, but even common sense says it is not since the saints do not have Dominion and the kingdom over the whole earth and will not until God gives it to them. Of course there are many other scriptures that talk about the terrible state the world is in at the last of the last days.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

 

[Dave G.]

There will be tribulation saints brought to Christ by the 144,000. So even if we don't go through that period, they will.

 

[sdowney717]

There will be tribulation saints brought to Christ by the 144,000. So even if we don't go through that period, they will.

I am consistent in understanding that the coming of the Lord Jesus is all the same Day as the Day of the Lord when we are gathered to meet Him in the air.
Paul is teaching about the coming as the Day of the Lord, Paul starts here 1 Thessalonians 4, and carries over into 1 Thessalonians 5, teaching it as a comfort for the church but terrible trouble for the world. And it is not secret coming, this 'rapture' is LOUD, a shout, and a trumpet are mentioned. His decent here, ties in with Acts 1 where the angels tell us Christ returns in the same manner as He went up.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

And carrie on with the same comfort message to the church, so Paul is teaching about the same event, the coming Day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Day of the Lord
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

 

[Dave G.]

I am consistent in understanding that the coming of the Lord Jesus is all the same Day as the Day of the Lord when we are gathered to meet Him in the air.
Paul is teaching about the coming as the Day of the Lord, Paul starts here 1 Thessalonians 4, and carries over into 1 Thessalonians 5, teaching it as a comfort for the church but terrible trouble for the world. And it is not secret coming, this 'rapture' is LOUD, a shout, and a trumpet are mentioned. His decent here, ties in with Acts 1 where the angels tell us Christ returns in the same manner as He went up.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

And carrie on with the same comfort message to the church, so Paul is teaching about the same event, the coming Day of the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Day of the Lord
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be [a]sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and [c]edify one another, just as you also are doing.

And I'm certainly not anyone to tell you that you are wrong. I believe in a rapture of the church, I have not set the time nor could I.. What I describe is just the general theory of a pre trib, I didn't say I bought into it.