Been told

[JohnRabbit]

Well I was wondering why you even made such a comment. I think we all know that there are blessing and curses in the law. The reason I asked is because I think you presented it for the purpose of applying it to the Christian. I can see no reason to mention it. If one follows the law that would make sense to me.Sounds reasonable to me.Once again you leave out v 31 in your comments. Why? So what are the promises of the OC or first covenant?So they are physical promises? To whom do these physical promises pertain to?Are the 10 commandments the covenant? I think so according to Deut 4:13. These are also called the law in James 2:10, 11. Paul makes the same claim in Romans 7:6, 7. Both of them quote on or more of the 10 commandments which they call the law. You might find my comments in the Covenant Theology Basics thread in Covenant Theology. It is right at the top say in the first 3 or 4.

you said:

"Well I was wondering why you even made such a comment. I think we all know that there are blessing and curses in the law. The reason I asked is because I think you presented it for the purpose of applying it to the Christian. I can see no reason to mention it. If one follows the law that would make sense to me."

i was actually answering because someone mentioned that Jesus became a curse for us because He was hung on a tree (going from memory since i'm too lazy to look it up right now)


Jeremiah 31:31 ( NKJV ) 31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with

the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

i'm lost on what you want with this verse, it says what means to me, what am i missing?


God promised that the COI would become a great nation and a special people to Him and He even elaborates:

Leviticus 26:3-13 ( NKJV ) 3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,

4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;

you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;

I will rid the land of evil beasts,

and the sword will not go through your land.

7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.

8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;

your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.

9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.

10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.

12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;

I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.



you asked: "So they are physical promises? To whom do these physical promises pertain to?"

the physical promises were to the COI.


you asked "Are the 10 commandments the covenant? I think so according to Deut 4:13."

Deuteronomy 4:13 ( NKJV ) 13So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

i think this is more of semantics than anything else. the ten commandments were the "big kahuna" of the covenant and so it seems reasonable that when you say "covenant" you think "ten commandments". i've checked other versions and they all have basically the same wording. however, we know what the word "covenant" means. i listed a definition on page one of this thread post #3. and here's the word for "covenant" in the original hebrew:

H1285

בְּרִית

berı̂yth

ber-eeth'

From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):—confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.

however deut 4:13 is written, i don't think we can define the word "covenant" as "ten words", that's the original hebrew for commandments in that verse, when we know the definition is an agreement.

see, no one enter into a marriage "ten words", but they do enter into a marriage agreement and that's exactly what God and the COI did.

and in romans and james, they called the ten "the law", because they understood what law defined sin. it's the law that God wrote Himself.

the covenant was the agreement that God and the COI had.

 

[Frogster]

you said:

"Well I was wondering why you even made such a comment. I think we all know that there are blessing and curses in the law. The reason I asked is because I think you presented it for the purpose of applying it to the Christian. I can see no reason to mention it. If one follows the law that would make sense to me."

i was actually answering because someone mentioned that Jesus became a curse for us because He was hung on a tree (going from memory since i'm too lazy to look it up right now)


Jeremiah 31:31 ( NKJV ) 31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with

the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

i'm lost on what you want with this verse, it says what means to me, what am i missing?


God promised that the COI would become a great nation and a special people to Him and He even elaborates:

Leviticus 26:3-13 ( NKJV ) 3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,

4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;

you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;

I will rid the land of evil beasts,

and the sword will not go through your land.

7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.

8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;

your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.

9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.

10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.

12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;

I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.



you asked: "So they are physical promises? To whom do these physical promises pertain to?"

the physical promises were to the COI.


you asked "Are the 10 commandments the covenant? I think so according to Deut 4:13."

Deuteronomy 4:13 ( NKJV ) 13So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

i think this is more of semantics than anything else. the ten commandments were the "big kahuna" of the covenant and so it seems reasonable that when you say "covenant" you think "ten commandments". i've checked other versions and they all have basically the same wording. however, we know what the word "covenant" means. i listed a definition on page one of this thread post #3. and here's the word for "covenant" in the original hebrew:

H1285

בְּרִית

berı̂yth

ber-eeth'

From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):—confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.

however deut 4:13 is written, i don't think we can define the word "covenant" as "ten words", that's the original hebrew for commandments in that verse, when we know the definition is an agreement.

see, no one enter into a marriage "ten words", but they do enter into a marriage agreement and that's exactly what God and the COI did.

and in romans and james, they called the ten "the law", because they understood what law defined sin. it's the law that God wrote Himself.

the covenant was the agreement that God and the COI had.

John, do u trust the Spirit or law, for your righteousness, each day? The Galatians were told walk, live, and be led by the Spirit.

What if tomorrow, the law was wiped clean from your mind, zero knowledge of it. What would happen to you?

 

[from scratch]

John 15:10 ( NKJV ) 10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


yes, Jesus had commandments and we are to do what He says, but God defines sin with the ten commandments. that does not mean that disobeying what Jesus commanded is not sin, because, if you reject His commandments, then you reject the One that sent Him, which violates the first commandment.

John 14:24 ( NKJV ) 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

Are you sure that comes from the NKJV? Have they put out a new one like the NIV? I did not look at all my available versions for a match.

The following is Bill McGinnis' (a Christian Universalist) material for those who don't know.

The Commandments of Jesus the Christ

from The Commandments Of Jesus: the complete list

Detailed List Of The Commandments Of Jesus, With Scriptural References

The Universal Moral Law
This is the Universal Moral Law regarding your relationship with your
Creator and with all other people on Earth. This law now applies to
all people in all situations.

There are three parts to the Universal Moral Law . . .
1. The Law Of Love
2. The Ten Commandments
3. The Golden Rule

THE LAW OF LOVE
"First, love God your Creator more than anything
else. Then, love all other people the same as you
love yourself."
(Based on Matthew 22:35-40, restated in Mark
12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-28. The idea of all people
as neighbors is explained in Luke 10:29-37)
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord
thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind. This is the first and great
commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38 KJV)
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang
all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22:39-40 KJV)

I thought I recognized that material right off the batt as the conversation Jesus had with the rich young ruler in Mat 19. But alas I got hung up on the words of Luke's version like the rich young ruler in 18:18-22.

Since your source mentions LK 10:25-28, one should look at the context or setting. What is the question being asked of Jesus? Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? Same question the rich young ruler asked. Indeed Jesus answered their question and didn't tell them how to have eternal life. That is not what they asked. Jesus gave him the impossible answer as provided already in the Scripture. Essentually that it is imppossible to to secure eternal life by achievement. The conversation with the rich young ruler was much the same. The rich young ruler already knew this even though he claimed to do as Jesus said. When Jesus told him to sell every thing and give it to the poor Jesus was teaching faith to secure eternal life and not the law.

Details are very interesting, don't ya think?

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Throughout the Old Testament, there are hundreds of "commandments,"
covering all parts of life. Collectively, these make up "the Law" of
the Old Covenant.

However, one group of commandments is very special, and it is known as
"the commandments." That is the Ten Commandments, dictated by God,
written in stone, and given to all people forever. The people of
Israel placed The Ten Commandments first, separate and distinct above
all others.

I still wish to know how the highlighted part of this statement is true.

Most of The Law of the Old Covenant no longer applies to Christians
under the New Covenant (See Hebrews 8:13, etc.) However, the Ten
Commandments still apply, because they were ratified by Jesus in Mark
10:19 and Luke 18:20 when He said, "You know the commandments."

Jesus didn't ratify the 10 commandments in MK 10:19, LK 10:27 or 18:20. Jesus answered a question and that is all. Jesus didn't teach to keep the 10 commandments in any of those references. If Jesus did then He was also saying that His mission was a wasted effort because by His own admission you could have eternal life without Him. So if you never sinned you could qualify.

The Ten Commandments are given in two different places in the Bible,
once in Exodus 20:1-17 and once in Deuteronomy 5:6-22. The content is
the same in both places.
Here is the modern restatement of The Ten Commandments. After this is
the translation of the original text.
The Ten Commandments: Modern Restatement
1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's possessions."
(Based on Exodus 20:1-17, restated in
Deuteronomy 5:6-22. Jesus did not specifically
restate commandments 2, 3, 4 or 10, but it was
understood that He endorsed and followed all of the
Ten Commandments.)

EXODUS 20:1-17 (KJV)
The Ten Commandments
1
And God spake all these words, saying,
2
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of
the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or
any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or
that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
under the earth.
NOTE: "Graven images" here means idols, not all
drawings or statues, as some have mistakenly
believed. If statues were prohibited, then
the two angel statues on the Ark Of The
Covenant would have been prohibited.
(See Exodus 25:18-20)
5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve
them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them
that hate me;
6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love
me, and keep my commandments.
7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in
vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that
taketh his name in vain.
8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy
God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy
son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is
within thy gates:
11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh
day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and
hallowed it.
12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may
be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
13
Thou shalt not kill.
NOTE: This is a prohibition against private killing,
not against killing in war or as punishment for
breaking the law. God specifically authorized
killing in war (see Deuteronomy 7:2, etc.)
and killing as punishment for certain crimes
(see Deuteronomy 13:9, etc.)
14
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15
Thou shalt not steal.
16
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy
neighbour.
17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou
shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his
manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his
ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
* * *
"And all the people saw the thunderings, and the
lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the
mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they
removed, and stood afar off." (Exodus 20:18 KJV)

THE GOLDEN RULE
"Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated."
(Based on Matthew 7:12, restated in Luke 6:31)
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is
the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12 KJV)

The Other Commandments Of Jesus
1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU."
(Forgive, and be forgiven.)
As you forgive other people, God will forgive you.

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our
debtors." (Matthew 6:12 KJV)
"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have
ought against any: that your Father also which
in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your
Father which is in heaven forgive your
trespasses." (Mark 11:25-26 KJV)

2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
Being "born again" means casting off the spirit of the
flesh and taking on the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit,
Who is given by the grace of God to those who believe
in Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God, risen
from the dead.

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born
again." (John 3:7 KJV)
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."

When you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour,
His Holy Spirit moves into your heart. He actually lives
in you, and you live in Him.
"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear
fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more
can ye, except ye abide in me." (John 15:4 KJV)

4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
see your good works, and glorify your Father which is
in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 KJV; see also Matthew 5:15)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art
in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary
deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee
to the officer, and thou be cast into prison."
(Matthew 5:25 KJV)
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and
cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that
one of thy members should perish, and not that thy
whole body should be cast into hell.
"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and
cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that
one of thy members should perish, and not that thy
whole body should be cast into hell."
(Matthew 5:29-30 KJV)
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
"But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by
heaven; for it is God's throne:

"Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by
Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

"Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou
canst not make one hair white or black.

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:
for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

(Matthew 5:34-37 KJV)
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an
eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn
to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:38-39 KJV)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED."
(Go the extra mile.)

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take
away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

"And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with
him twain.

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away."
(Matthew 5:40-42 KJV)

There are several good point in the above I didn't comment on as I could see no relationship to the topic.

 

[from scratch]

John 15:10 ( NKJV ) 10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


yes, Jesus had commandments and we are to do what He says, but God defines sin with the ten commandments. that does not mean that disobeying what Jesus commanded is not sin, because, if you reject His commandments, then you reject the One that sent Him, which violates the first commandment.

John 14:24 ( NKJV ) 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

I'm sorry I must come back to this part of your post. I believe I asked that Jesus' commandments be identified. That was my intent anyway. I see them as different than Jesus' Father's commandments. Am I the the only person on the planet that sees this? I don't think so.

I don't agree that God identifies all sin with the 10 commandments. Violation of the levitical laws was also punishable by death for violation. Yet there was no permanent prieshood established prior to the law. I really don't wish to pursue that rabbit trail. It is not germane to the thread. Noah was given very different dietary laws as well. And it became sin to the Israelites only to eat certain things at Mt Sinai.

You use of John 14:24 threw me a curve because I asked about John 14:15 and that is what I read. I missed the detail of 24. Opps. So by this you're saying the the 10 commandments given at Mt Sinai are Jesus' words. No sale! I refer you back to John 15:10 where the is a clear distinction which you very artfully dodged. Am I slow? A lot of times. I don't reject the 10 commandments as charged at all. They are the first covenant. I have them in their rightful place.

I need you to identify in a list Jesus' commandments because of your statement I highlighted in blue. It seems to me that you're saying that they are the 10 commandments by the rest of your sentence. I think your uses of pronouns allows this to slip by most folks. I do think it is a problem with the way we talk.

 

[from scratch]

John, do u trust the Spirit or law, for your righteousness, each day? The Galatians were told walk, live, and be led by the Spirit.

What if tomorrow, the law was wiped clean from your mind, zero knowledge of it. What would happen to you?

Guess he would have no compass.

 

[from scratch]

10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
continue with Jesus' commandments


"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them
that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and
pray for them which despitefully use you, and
persecute you;

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is
in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on
the unjust."

(Matthew 5:43-45 KJV)
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to
be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your
Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1 KJV)
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when
thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret;
and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard for their much
speaking."

(Matthew 6:5-7 KJV)

13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
And the power,
And the glory,
For ever.
Amen.
(Matthew 6:9-15 KJV)

14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad
countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may
appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their
reward." (Matthew 6:16)

15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither
moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break
through nor steal:

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
(Matthew 6:19-21)
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."

"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what
ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body,
what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the
body than raiment?

"Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they
reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth
them. Are ye not much better than they?"

(Matthew 6:25-26 KJV)
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall
take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day
is the evil thereof." (Matthew 6:34 KJV)
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF
ALL YOUR NEEDS."
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his
righteousness; and all these things shall be
added unto you." (Matthew 6:33 KJV)
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with
what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

(Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and
said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first
cast a stone at her. (John 8:7 KJV)

20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS
BEFORE SWINE."
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye
your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under
their feet, and turn again and rend you."
(Matthew 7:6 KJV)


21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye
shall find.)
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" (Matthew 7:7 KJV)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS,
COMFORT THOSE IN DISTRESS."


"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come,
ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for
you from the foundation of the world:

"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty,
and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

"Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I
was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
The wide gate is the gate you simply stumble through, when you
are not paying attention.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad
is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be
which go in thereat:

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
(Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
(Matthew 7:15 KJV)

25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples,
he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out,
and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
(Matthew 10:1 KJV)
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast
out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
(Matthew 10:8 KJV)
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones;
for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do
always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
(Matthew 18:10 KJV)

27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master,
even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one
is your Father, which is in heaven.

"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master,
even Christ.

"But he that is greatest among you shall be your
servant.

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
(Matthew 23:8-12 KJV)
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one
or two more, that in the mouth of two or three
witnesses every word may be established.

"And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto
the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let
him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
(Matthew 18:15-17 KJV)
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP."
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not
us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly
speak evil of me.

"For he that is not against us is on our part."
(Mark 9:38-40 KJV)
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."

"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in
God.

"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say
unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast
into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but
shall believe that those things which he saith shall
come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye
desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,
and ye shall have them."
(Mark 11:22-24 KJV)
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
"Then Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou
likewise." (Luke 10:37b KJV)
This was in reference to the Parable Of The
Good Samaritan, who helped and took care of
a man who had been attacked by robbers.
(See Luke 10:30-35)

32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another,
as I have loved you." (John 15:12 KJV)
NOTE: This one commandment summarizes
all the others.
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and
gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given
for you: do this in remembrance of me. Likewise also
the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new
testament in my blood, which is shed for you."
(Luke 22:19-20 KJV)
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
The full meaning of this dramatic command is for us
to care for each other's needs as if they were our own.
He also wants us literally to wash each other's feet.
"If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye
also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14 KJV)
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."
(Luke 6:36 KJV)
" . . . for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."
(Luke 6:35b KJV)

36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM."
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto
the end of the world." Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
"If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 KJV)
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."
"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh
at an hour when ye think not." (Luke 12:40 KJV)

and yes, this was another cut and paste job.

So how does any of this post relate to the subject at hand? The citation of John 14:15 at the end? considering John 15:10 it is completely out of context and isn't related to the first covenant at all.

 

[from scratch]

you said:

"Well I was wondering why you even made such a comment. I think we all know that there are blessing and curses in the law. The reason I asked is because I think you presented it for the purpose of applying it to the Christian. I can see no reason to mention it. If one follows the law that would make sense to me."

i was actually answering because someone mentioned that Jesus became a curse for us because He was hung on a tree (going from memory since i'm too lazy to look it up right now)

I have focus problems too. It is way to easy to get side tracked. Thanks for being polite with the questioner.

Jeremiah 31:31 ( NKJV ) 31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with

the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

i'm lost on what you want with this verse, it says what means to me, what am i missing?

You know very well by now that I hang on the word new. Because someone pushed me a little more I will also now hang on the word make. You already know my spiel on the word new. The word make adds alot more punch to the word new. Look it up and go back to original language. I'm not trying to cause you to say anything especially to please me.

God promised that the COI would become a great nation and a special people to Him and He even elaborates:

Leviticus 26:3-13 ( NKJV ) 3 ‘If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,

4 then I will give you rain in its season, the land shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.

5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;

you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.

6 I will give peace in the land, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;

I will rid the land of evil beasts,

and the sword will not go through your land.

7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.

8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;

your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.

9 ‘For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.

10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.

11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.

12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;

I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.

What does this have to do with a Christian's relationship to God?

you asked: "So they are physical promises? To whom do these physical promises pertain to?"

the physical promises were to the COI.

Ditto above.

you asked "Are the 10 commandments the covenant? I think so according to Deut 4:13."

Deuteronomy 4:13 ( NKJV ) 13So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

i think this is more of semantics than anything else. the ten commandments were the "big kahuna" of the covenant and so it seems reasonable that when you say "covenant" you think "ten commandments". i've checked other versions and they all have basically the same wording. however, we know what the word "covenant" means. i listed a definition on page one of this thread post #3. and here's the word for "covenant" in the original hebrew:

H1285

בְּרִית

berı̂yth

ber-eeth'

From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):—confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.

however deut 4:13 is written, i don't think we can define the word "covenant" as "ten words", that's the original hebrew for commandments in that verse, when we know the definition is an agreement.

I don't know how you think of a word. I think of a word as a picture. A single word represents a whole lot. I see the rest of the Torah as the discussion of the 10 word covenant. The 10 words sure are expanded alot in Exodus 20. I don't know how you can get even remember Sabbath from a single word, much less all the rest of the stuff given in the 4th as presented in Ex 20.

see, no one enter into a marriage "ten words", but they do enter into a marriage agreement and that's exactly what God and the COI did.

and in romans and james, they called the ten "the law", because they understood what law defined sin. it's the law that God wrote Himself.

Jesus, James, Peter and Paul all were Jews/Israelites. They called the 10 commandments the law. Paul also called the law the first covenant. Where do you get this exclusionary stuff from? I just don't see it from close personal study. One can only talk about a very small part of anything at a time. Otherwise we would all be fine artisans drawing pictures.

the covenant was the agreement that God and the COI had.

And it contained what?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Guess he would have no compass.

you're right!

 

[JohnRabbit]

So how does any of this post relate to the subject at hand? The citation of John 14:15 at the end? considering John 15:10 it is completely out of context and isn't related to the first covenant at all.

dude, you are throwing me a curve. all i did was answer all of the questions you said i was dodging.

you wanted a list of Jesus' commandments and now it's not relevant?

 

[JohnRabbit]

I'm sorry I must come back to this part of your post. I believe I asked that Jesus' commandments be identified. That was my intent anyway. I see them as different than Jesus' Father's commandments. Am I the the only person on the planet that sees this? I don't think so.

I don't agree that God identifies all sin with the 10 commandments. Violation of the levitical laws was also punishable by death for violation. Yet there was no permanent prieshood established prior to the law. I really don't wish to pursue that rabbit trail. It is not germane to the thread. Noah was given very different dietary laws as well. And it became sin to the Israelites only to eat certain things at Mt Sinai.

You use of John 14:24 threw me a curve because I asked about John 14:15 and that is what I read. I missed the detail of 24. Opps. So by this you're saying the the 10 commandments given at Mt Sinai are Jesus' words. No sale! I refer you back to John 15:10 where the is a clear distinction which you very artfully dodged. Am I slow? A lot of times. I don't reject the 10 commandments as charged at all. They are the first covenant. I have them in their rightful place.

I need you to identify in a list Jesus' commandments because of your statement I highlighted in blue. It seems to me that you're saying that they are the 10 commandments by the rest of your sentence. I think your uses of pronouns allows this to slip by most folks. I do think it is a problem with the way we talk.

why don't you believe that the ten commandments define sin?

who do you think spoke the words to the COI at sinai?

i have already given you a list of Jesus' commandments.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Are you sure that comes from the NKJV? Have they put out a new one like the NIV? I did not look at all my available versions for a match.

The following is Bill McGinnis' (a Christian Universalist) material for those who don't know. I thought I recognized that material right off the batt as the conversation Jesus had with the rich young ruler in Mat 19. But alas I got hung up on the words of Luke's version like the rich young ruler in 18:18-22.

Since your source mentions LK 10:25-28, one should look at the context or setting. What is the question being asked of Jesus? Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? Same question the rich young ruler asked. Indeed Jesus answered their question and didn't tell them how to have eternal life. That is not what they asked. Jesus gave him the impossible answer as provided already in the Scripture. Essentually that it is imppossible to to secure eternal life by achievement. The conversation with the rich young ruler was much the same. The rich young ruler already knew this even though he claimed to do as Jesus said. When Jesus told him to sell every thing and give it to the poor Jesus was teaching faith to secure eternal life and not the law.

Details are very interesting, don't ya think?I still wish to know how the highlighted part of this statement is true.Jesus didn't ratify the 10 commandments in MK 10:19, LK 10:27 or 18:20. Jesus answered a question and that is all. Jesus didn't teach to keep the 10 commandments in any of those references. If Jesus did then He was also saying that His mission was a wasted effort because by His own admission you could have eternal life without Him. So if you never sinned you could qualify.There are several good point in the above I didn't comment on as I could see no relationship to the topic.

just focus on the commandments listed. i don't necessarily agree with the guy's commentary.

 

[JohnRabbit]

John, do u trust the Spirit or law, for your righteousness, each day? The Galatians were told walk, live, and be led by the Spirit.

What if tomorrow, the law was wiped clean from your mind, zero knowledge of it. What would happen to you?

what does walking in the Spirit mean?

if the law was wiped from my mind, you mean something would happen to me?

pray, tell.

 

[Frogster]

what does walking in the Spirit mean?

if the law was wiped from my mind, you mean something would happen to me?

pray, tell.

No, of corse not, a hypothetical to you, but the experience of the galatians.

Paul told them to walk, live and be led of the Spirit, and clearly they were justified without law, and hardly any knowledge of it, being former pagans.

So I ask you, if just pretending, you wiped out the law from your mind, what would be you righteousness? How did the Galatians do it?

 

[Frogster]

you're right!

what compass did Paul want for the church, maturity of Spirit, or childlike law?

3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

He even said you are not under law, 5:18, just like our favorite verse in rom 6;14.

 

[JohnRabbit]

what compass did Paul want for the church, maturity of Spirit, or childlike law?

3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

He even said you are not under law, 5:18, just like our favorite verse in rom 6;14.

so you think that the "elemental principles of the world" comes from God in the form of His law?

and, why do you think you have to mention to me that we are not "under the law"? this proves that you don't read my posts.

 

[JohnRabbit]

No, of corse not, a hypothetical to you, but the experience of the galatians.

Paul told them to walk, live and be led of the Spirit, and clearly they were justified without law, and hardly any knowledge of it, being former pagans.

So I ask you, if just pretending, you wiped out the law from your mind, what would be you righteousness? How did the Galatians do it?

paul already tells us that the law don't make you righteous, so why are you asking me this? you know i know this.

this tells me that you may be reading my posts, but you don't understand, and don't ask me to explain it. go back and read my posts.

 

[from scratch]

dude, you are throwing me a curve. all i did was answer all of the questions you said i was dodging.

you wanted a list of Jesus' commandments and now it's not relevant?

I don't deny that you responded to John 15:10 with something. I called it an artful dodge. You didn't identify Jesus' commandments in any way. You said to me the Jesus is nothing more than a parrot and implied that Jesus issued the 10 commandments at Mt Sinai. Can yo back that up? I can c&p if you like.

 

[from scratch]

why don't you believe that the ten commandments define sin?

That is not what I said. You even quoted what I said. I even bolded all as a qualifier in my statement. I then further gave examples of what was not included specifically in the 10 commandments to back that up. Are you speed reading and giving no attention to details. I apologized for missing your John 14::24 that I read as 14:15 that you also didn't say anything about as I questioned. Why?

who do you think spoke the words to the COI at sinai?

I guess that you wish me to say I don't know Who it was. I have presented that it is not Jesus with an Ex 33:20 argument several times in the forum if not in this thread. Moses never saw Who he was talking with. Thousands have seen Jesus. Look at Gen 3:15 and honestly tell me that it is Jesus speaking. Where does the Speaker change Who He is before the end of Deuteronomy? Show me conclusive evidence please and I will concede. I feel that it is your duty to back up your idea and not mine to disprove what you claim before you even present any evidence to support your claim. I'm extremely sure you can't. But I'm open to a very compelling argument. So provide it. In over 6 years of actively engaging others, no one has done so yet. I'm waiting.

Sorry bout the unhappy look. It is the only one I could find.

i have already given you a list of Jesus' commandments.

Where is this? the 613 you c&ped? I didn't think that you identified them as from Jesus. You id them as the law of the first covenant and nothing more.

 

[from scratch]

paul already tells us that the law don't make you righteous, so why are you asking me this? you know i know this.

this tells me that you may be reading my posts, but you don't understand, and don't ask me to explain it. go back and read my posts.

So am I sinning if I don't observe the 4th commandment? This is a yes or no question. Either I am or I'm not. Which is it?

 

[from scratch]

so you think that the "elemental principles of the world" comes from God in the form of His law?

and, why do you think you have to mention to me that we are not "under the law"? this proves that you don't read my posts.

I missed that to. Maybe because I believe that to be your point - that we are obligated to the law. Would you kindly point me to that post, please? I think that is really what is at issue and not the contents of the first covenant.

So what do you do with all those references that say imply not under the law? Just throw them out or say that they don't mean under the law? As a truck driver when they said I was under a load, they weren't saying I was carrying it on my back. They were saying I was subject to the requirements of that load and they couldn't give me another load. I was obligated to that load. You have yet to show that we're obligated to the law in any respect.