Been told

[from scratch]

Thank you for your welcome.

If you would please briefly identify the two opposing points you see, I will then be able to properly give my explaination of Jer 31. In reference to the opposing ideas you see.

Thank you again.

Hmmm! It seems that your calling Israel God's wife as dipicted in Scripture a harlot, redeeming her and remarring her. And it seems to me that you also said that the goyuim can't be part of that covenant (wife). This seems very contrary to what I read in Acts. The goyuim were most definitly included in this new covenant Jeremiah spoke about. The promise in Joel was even given to the goyium as witnessed by Peter to his astonishment. Peter even defended the right of the goyuim to be part of the new covenant without joining themselves to the Lord as provided for in Ex 12:48. It was the whole issue before the church at Jerusalem in Acts 15.

Sure I understand your point of view on Jer 31:31-34 specifically focusing on the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah in verse 31. It seems to me that you excluded all non Jews/Israelites from the covenant. I read the Gospels and Acts much differently in the unfolding of the NC. If anything I agree with Paul in that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.- Gal 3:28.

I'm a tad curious what bring this sudden interest in covenants to your attention? You seem to be just involved in the MJ forum since 04 until what this maybe last month. It bothers me that you come here and make an exclusionary statement that only Jews/Israelites are part of the NC Jeremiah speaks of.

 

[Frogster]

Hmmm! It seems that your calling Israel God's wife as dipiocted in Scripture a harlot, redeeming her and remarring her. And it seems to me that you also said that the goyuim can't be part of that covenant (wife). This seems very contrary to what I read in Acts. The goyuim were most definitly included in this new covenant Jer spoke about. The promise in Joel was even given to the goyium as witnessed by Peter to his astonishment. Peter even defended the right of the goyuim to be part of the new covenant without joining themselves to the Lord as provided for in Ex 12:48. It was the whole issue before the church at Jerusalem in Acts 15.

Sure I understand your point of view on Jer 31:31-34 specifically focusing on the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah in verse 31. It seems to me that you excluded all non Jews/Israelites form the covenant. I read the Gospels and Acts much differently in the unfolding of the NC. If anything I agree with Paul in that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.- Gal 3:28.

I'm a tad curious what bring this sudden interest in covenants to your attention? You seem to be just involved in the MJ forum since 04 until what this maybe last month. It bothers me that you come here and make an exclusionary statement that only Jews/Israelites are part of the NC Jeremiah speaks of.

good post, plus in Cor 11, the gentiles were partaking of the new cov, which paul the mimnister of the new cov, to the gentiles, 2 cor 3, spoke of.

 

[Frogster]

lets not also forget, in the new cov book of hebrews, where the writer was pointing to spiritual, not natural, the seed is addressed, and according to gal 3;29, gentiles are seed also.

2;16 For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham.

 

[from scratch]

Shimshon I don't know if you have read the whole thread or not. If you haven't please do. The idea behind the thread is that I don't understand the first covenant. If you would like to explain the first covenant and how it applies to Christians, I'd love to hear it. You must be willing to hear my defense and answer my questions.

 

[Heavens]

There is absolutely no salvation to anyone but Israel;

(Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Anyone who receives Christ is BECAUSE THEY ARE ISRAEL.
Israel are ONLY THOSE WHO RECEIVE CHRIST.
Thank you Jesus for remarrying us and saving Israel as promised!

 

[Frogster]

There is absolutely no salvation to anyone but Israel;

(Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Anyone who receives Christ is BECAUSE THEY ARE ISRAEL.
Israel are ONLY THOSE WHO RECEIVE CHRIST.
Thank you Jesus for remarrying us and saving Israel as promised!

do u mean gal 6;16 ?

 

[Shimshon]

I'm a tad curious what bring this sudden interest in covenants to your attention? You seem to be just involved in the MJ forum since 04 until what this maybe last month. It bothers me that you come here and make an exclusionary statement that only Jews/Israelites are part of the NC Jeremiah speaks of.

You can relax, I replied to your post because I was humblly interested in responding on the topic you where speaking of. You are correct in your assesment that I have not ventured far beyond the MJ forums with my interactions. Rest assured, I am not interested in attacks, playing games, or any other form of antagonism found in these forums. I am venturing outside of the MJ forum because at the moment it is not a very 'friendly' place for me. I am interested to look outside of my usual place for a breathe of fresh air. Not to bring the stench of rebelion.

That said, you have misunderstood me if you think I said the goyim can not be part of God's people. The covenant is made with Yisrael and the rest of the nations are blessed through this covenant. However, I am not a Judaizer. I do not believe gentiles are called by the Spirit to observe Torah as a Jew was given. This is not the gospel message.

So, on both points you can relax. I am not here to cause strife. If it comes, I will leave. And I do not believe gentiles must become Jewish to be saved. This is not the calling of the Spirit.

The Spirit is calling us all to God through Faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

If anything I agree with Paul in that there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ.- Gal 3:28.

In Messiah, yes. I agree. In Messiah both of us, Jew and the rest of the people of the nations of earth are One thru faith in Messiah Yeshua. I believe it is witnessed through love, which is only possible through the Spriit given us.

But I also agree with Paul in that when you are called by God through Messiah Yeshua you do not change who you are - 1 Cor 7:20

17 Only let each person live the life the Lord has assigned him and live it in the condition he was in when God called him. This is the rule I lay down in all the congregations. 18 Was someone already circumcised when he was called? Then he should not try to remove the marks of his circumcision. Was someone uncircumcised when he was called? He shouldn't undergo b'rit-milah. 19 Being circumcised means nothing, and being uncircumcised means nothing; what does mean something is keeping God's commandments. 20 Each person should remain in the condition he was in when he was called.

Circumcision means nothing in reference to being called. It does not imply nor say that once I am called by God through the Gospel of Messiah my circumcision (being a Jew) goes away. Paul states it has no value in regards to the salvation and calling of Messiah. Because both Jews and the rest of the people in the nations are called through Faith in Messiah, not through being a Jew (circumcision).

 

[Shimshon]

There is absolutely no salvation to anyone but Israel;

(Mat 15:24) But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Anyone who receives Christ is BECAUSE THEY ARE ISRAEL.
Israel are ONLY THOSE WHO RECEIVE CHRIST.
Thank you Jesus for remarrying us and saving Israel as promised!

I recognize these statements as either replacement theology and/or two house theology. Either way, I do not see it as you. When the Messiah of Yisrael states to the people of Yisrael that he was sent to the 'lost' of Yisrael's house. I can not come to any other conclusion about who the 'lost sheep' are than 'of the house of Yisrael'.

Messiah did not come to make the whole world Yisrael. Throughout the Scriptures and the writtings of our Apostles there is always a distintion between Yisrael (Jews) and the Nations. There is never a place in time where God said the nations will become Yisrael.

People in the nations will be blessed through the Messiah of Yisrael. They will be his people, who were originally not. He will also heal Yisrael his bride, restore her and through her bring the nations wholeness and oneness. He will heal the nations through the leaves of his Tree.

See, on the MJ side there are those who think you must be Jewish to understand the 'real' God. And on your side there are those who think you must forsake being Jewish to understand the 'real' God. I think both sides are in err.

 

[from scratch]

You can relax, I replied to your post because I was humblly interested in responding on the topic you where speaking of. You are correct in your assesment that I have not ventured far beyond the MJ forums with my interactions. Rest assured, I am not interested in attacks, playing games, or any other form of antagonism found in these forums. I am venturing outside of the MJ forum because at the moment it is not a very 'friendly' place for me. I am interested to look outside of my usual place for a breathe of fresh air. Not to bring the stench of rebelion.

That said, you have misunderstood me if you think I said the goyim can not be part of God's people. The covenant is made with Yisrael and the rest of the nations are blessed through this covenant. However, I am not a Judaizer. I do not believe gentiles are called by the Spirit to observe Torah as a Jew was given. This is not the gospel message.

So, on both points you can relax. I am not here to cause strife. If it comes, I will leave. And I do not believe gentiles must become Jewish to be saved. This is not the calling of the Spirit.

The Spirit is calling us all to God through Faith in Yeshua the Messiah.

In Messiah, yes. I agree. In Messiah both of us, Jew and the rest of the people of the nations of earth are One thru faith in Messiah Yeshua. I believe it is witnessed through love, which is only possible through the Spriit given us.

But I also agree with Paul in that when you are called by God through Messiah Yeshua you do not change who you are - 1 Cor 7:20

Circumcision means nothing in reference to being called. It does not imply nor say that once I am called by God through the Gospel of Messiah my circumcision (being a Jew) goes away. Paul states it has no value in regards to the salvation and calling of Messiah. Because both Jews and the rest of the people in the nations are called through Faith in Messiah, not through being a Jew (circumcision).

OK you seem to be a breath of fresh air on the subject. It is most welcome here. I'll give it some thought. I'm curious as to if you have read the thread yet?

 

[Heavens]

I recognize these statements as either replacement theology and/or two house theology. Either way, I do not see it as you. When the Messiah of Yisrael states to the people of Yisrael that he was sent to the 'lost' of Yisrael's house. I can not come to any other conclusion about who the 'lost sheep' are than 'of the house of Yisrael'.

Messiah did not come to make the whole world Yisrael. Throughout the Scriptures and the writtings of our Apostles there is always a distintion between Yisrael (Jews) and the Nations. There is never a place in time where God said the nations will become Yisrael.

People in the nations will be blessed through the Messiah of Yisrael. They will be his people, who were originally not. He will also heal Yisrael his bride, restore her and through her bring the nations wholeness and oneness. He will heal the nations through the leaves of his Tree.

See, on the MJ side there are those who think you must be Jewish to understand the 'real' God. And on your side there are those who think you must forsake being Jewish to understand the 'real' God. I think both sides are in err.

Lest you missed it, the people in the Nations ARE Blessed through the Messiah of Israel. It began 2000 years ago. It is called the "Gospel".

Yes, of course, the lost sheep are the house of Israel. Those Israelites (Jews or Gentiles) who responded to the Gospel are Israel saved. That simple.

Of course there is the distinction of the one house of the Jews Just as there is the distinction of the one house of Israel. Every Jew knows that lol. Every Christian should too, which is why we are here today.

Jer 31:31 is fulfilled, that is how Paul see's it;


(Heb 8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Fulfilled.

The house of Judah, the "Jews", Jesus was sent to first.
After they widowed themselves by murdering their Husband Jesus on the cross, the great and mighty I AM, Jesus sent to the house of Israel by calling them out in the Gospel, the exact same way he did the believing Jews.
He sent to the house of Israel to regather them by the preaching of the gospel by Peter and Paul and all the rest of His Messengers sent to the four winds to call Israel out of the nations where God scattered them. This ONLY happens by the Gospel. Not some futuristic geo-political thing.

In calling Israel out of the Gentiles to be one with the Jews, is HOW the whole house of Israel is saved. That is what the scriptures provided before declare to us.

All those saved are the whole house of Israel.

See all the scriptures provided
Any other message is of the enemy.

 

[Frogster]

I recognize these statements as either replacement theology and/or two house theology. Either way, I do not see it as you. When the Messiah of Yisrael states to the people of Yisrael that he was sent to the 'lost' of Yisrael's house. I can not come to any other conclusion about who the 'lost sheep' are than 'of the house of Yisrael'.

Messiah did not come to make the whole world Yisrael. Throughout the Scriptures and the writtings of our Apostles there is always a distintion between Yisrael (Jews) and the Nations. There is never a place in time where God said the nations will become Yisrael.

People in the nations will be blessed through the Messiah of Yisrael. They will be his people, who were originally not. He will also heal Yisrael his bride, restore her and through her bring the nations wholeness and oneness. He will heal the nations through the leaves of his Tree.

See, on the MJ side there are those who think you must be Jewish to understand the 'real' God. And on your side there are those who think you must forsake being Jewish to understand the 'real' God. I think both sides are in err.

boy..why was i ignored, about abe the gentile?

Can you show me one drop of messianic judaism, using pauline theology, and NT abe?

Dosen't abe, go against the thelogy of the jewish worshipping , israel centered theology?

8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring

 

[from scratch]

Calling JohnRabbit, where art thou oh JohnRabbit?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Calling JohnRabbit, where art thou oh JohnRabbit?

i'm back, i had an unfortunate incident with time warner cable (the blood suckers), in that, they turned my cable off on friday evening. they said i still owed eight cents on my last months bill!

go figure.

btw, i use the nkjv because i find it to be excellent for bible study. i also use moffat's translation, rsv, kjv, niv, and others. there is also ferrah fenton's transtlation i like too.

i try to use at least eight different translations when i study.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I have no problem with the above.OK I accept that with reservation. You absolutely have a vaild point.I guess that you are using the NKJV for a reason. Could that be my presentation that v 33 from the KJV is the last third of a sentence and the NKJV makes it a sentence all by itself? Just wondering. Even so it certianly seems that you refuse to comment on the previous 2 verses which clearly define the My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts. It says specificaly that God will make a new (freshly cut) covenant. This covenant will not be like the one God made with their Fathers that He (God) made with them at Sinai. Doesn't the But this is the covenant say after reading the prior 2 verses that it is different? It does to me. Yet you say it is the covenant already made? What then is this new covenant? What new covenant isJesus talking about in Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20? Are there 2 new covenants? So both are written. Does that make or require them them talking about the samething especially considering Jer 31:31, 32 and 33 for full context the intended meaning? I just don't see at all how they can be the same. Jeremiah would have not said new cut if he meant refurbish or move. Because you requested: Don't you often use I John 3:4 to define sin? Are yoiu changing horses mid stream to prove your point? Is not your above statement what I have always said with Gal 3:17, 19? Is this not the point Paul makes in Romans 5:13?I hope I have shown the problem with my above comments.

Where in the post above do you even comment on my question of who the word 'you' refers to? I read your post 3 times and didn't find it. Why won't you answer my questions? Did you simply over look it? That's OK you make demands of us and refuse or are very sloppy in answering ours. It was the first thing I addressed in my post. do you need something like this to see a question: Who is the 'us' in Deut 11:26 - 28?

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 ( NKJV ) 26“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today; 28and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

the "you" in these verses is the COI. i'm sorry that i didn't answer that earlier, hope i'm right on that.

there are not two covenants! rather, there is the old covenant and the new and both represent a marriage.

now to jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 ( NKJV ) 31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with

the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their

fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they

broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the

house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their

hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor,

and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the

greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

now, let's look at what you said:

"This covenant will not be like the one God made with their Fathers that He (God) made with them at Sinai."

you are absolutely right on that. the new covenant is different from the old, but how?

is it that one has law and the other don't? that's not what i find in the bible.

Exodus 16:4 ( NKJV ) 4Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.

God said He wanted to see if they will walk in His law. now of course the old covenant had law. like i said before, God had law before sinai.

now jeremiah:

33But this is the covenant that I will make with the

house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their

hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

again with the new covenant, God is concerned with law. so, i think it has been established that the old and new covenant is concerned with law. so, what makes them different enough that one is classified as "new"?

Hebrews 8:6 ( NKJV ) 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

it's the promises that are different, better even. the old covenant had physical promises, and the new covenant has spiritual promises. the shadow of things to come, was that the physical represented the spiritual to come.

now, out of the 613 (plus frogster's rule don't want to leave that out) commandments, God wrote ten of them Himself (ex 31:18). so i ask, the fact that God wrote the ten is not significant to you?

 

[from scratch]

i'm back, i had an unfortunate incident with time warner cable (the blood suckers), in that, they turned my cable off on friday evening. they said i still owed eight cents on my last months bill!

go figure.

btw, i use the nkjv because i find it to be excellent for bible study. i also use moffat's translation, rsv, kjv, niv, and others. there is also ferrah fenton's transtlation i like too.

i try to use at least eight different translations when i study.

For 80 pennies? Man they must be desperate. Time to shop. Somebody else wants your money to. My net provider was uncoperative and I just told them they aren't the only player in town any more, bye and I mean forever. They changed my contract without my permission and customer service was very poor.

Hey that is great you use all those translations. The sentence structure differences challenge the mind.

 

[JohnRabbit]

For 80 pennies? Man they must be desperate. Time to shop. Somebody else wants your money to. My net provider was uncoperative and I just told them they aren't the only player in town any more, bye and I mean forever. They changed my contract without my permission and customer service was very poor.

Hey that is great you use all those translations. The sentence structure differences challenge the mind.

i was raised baptist, and went to church every sunday until i was about 19 years old. i realized then that i didn't know anything about the bible or what God wants us to do or be. i mean, i didn't even know who the jews were. i just thought they killed Jesus and that was their significance (boy, was i bright).

but after i learned the truth, i learned that other bible translations can be of valuable help. before that i only read from the kjv, believing all that stuff people say about other translations.

i am impressed with your knowledge of scripture, so i know i can learn from you. thanks for that and i know we step on each other toes now and then, but i want you to know that i'm not about "being right", rather, what i learn from you.

i'll probably be stepping on your toes some more, but i think that's to be expected with some of the differences we have about the scriptures.

never personal, though.

i think i've written enough so that we can ask questions back and forth on this subject.

 

[JohnRabbit]

in that case, i'll get back to you.

John 15:10 ( NKJV ) 10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


yes, Jesus had commandments and we are to do what He says, but God defines sin with the ten commandments. that does not mean that disobeying what Jesus commanded is not sin, because, if you reject His commandments, then you reject the One that sent Him, which violates the first commandment.

John 14:24 ( NKJV ) 24He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.



The Commandments of Jesus the Christ

from The Commandments Of Jesus: the complete list

Detailed List Of The Commandments Of Jesus, With Scriptural References

The Universal Moral Law
This is the Universal Moral Law regarding your relationship with your
Creator and with all other people on Earth. This law now applies to
all people in all situations.

There are three parts to the Universal Moral Law . . .
1. The Law Of Love
2. The Ten Commandments
3. The Golden Rule

THE LAW OF LOVE
"First, love God your Creator more than anything
else. Then, love all other people the same as you
love yourself."
(Based on Matthew 22:35-40, restated in Mark
12:28-31 and Luke 10:25-28. The idea of all people
as neighbors is explained in Luke 10:29-37)
"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord
thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul,
and with all thy mind. This is the first and great
commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38 KJV)
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy
neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang
all the law and the prophets. (Matthew 22:39-40 KJV)


THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Throughout the Old Testament, there are hundreds of "commandments,"
covering all parts of life. Collectively, these make up "the Law" of
the Old Covenant.

However, one group of commandments is very special, and it is known as
"the commandments." That is the Ten Commandments, dictated by God,
written in stone, and given to all people forever. The people of
Israel placed The Ten Commandments first, separate and distinct above
all others.

Most of The Law of the Old Covenant no longer applies to Christians
under the New Covenant (See Hebrews 8:13, etc.) However, the Ten
Commandments still apply, because they were ratified by Jesus in Mark
10:19 and Luke 18:20 when He said, "You know the commandments."

The Ten Commandments are given in two different places in the Bible,
once in Exodus 20:1-17 and once in Deuteronomy 5:6-22. The content is
the same in both places.
Here is the modern restatement of The Ten Commandments. After this is
the translation of the original text.
The Ten Commandments: Modern Restatement
1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's possessions."
(Based on Exodus 20:1-17, restated in
Deuteronomy 5:6-22. Jesus did not specifically
restate commandments 2, 3, 4 or 10, but it was
understood that He endorsed and followed all of the
Ten Commandments.)

EXODUS 20:1-17 (KJV)
The Ten Commandments
1
And God spake all these words, saying,
2
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of
the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or
any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or
that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
under the earth.
NOTE: "Graven images" here means idols, not all
drawings or statues, as some have mistakenly
believed. If statues were prohibited, then
the two angel statues on the Ark Of The
Covenant would have been prohibited.
(See Exodus 25:18-20)
5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve
them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,
visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them
that hate me;
6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love
me, and keep my commandments.
7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in
vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that
taketh his name in vain.
8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy
God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy
son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy
maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is
within thy gates:
11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the
sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh
day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and
hallowed it.
12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may
be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth
thee.
13
Thou shalt not kill.
NOTE: This is a prohibition against private killing,
not against killing in war or as punishment for
breaking the law. God specifically authorized
killing in war (see Deuteronomy 7:2, etc.)
and killing as punishment for certain crimes
(see Deuteronomy 13:9, etc.)
14
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15
Thou shalt not steal.
16
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy
neighbour.
17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou
shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his
manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his
ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
* * *
"And all the people saw the thunderings, and the
lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the
mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they
removed, and stood afar off." (Exodus 20:18 KJV)

THE GOLDEN RULE
"Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated."
(Based on Matthew 7:12, restated in Luke 6:31)
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is
the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12 KJV)

The Other Commandments Of Jesus
1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU."
(Forgive, and be forgiven.)
As you forgive other people, God will forgive you.

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our
debtors." (Matthew 6:12 KJV)
"And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have
ought against any: that your Father also which
in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
"But if ye do not forgive, neither will your
Father which is in heaven forgive your
trespasses." (Mark 11:25-26 KJV)

2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
Being "born again" means casting off the spirit of the
flesh and taking on the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit,
Who is given by the grace of God to those who believe
in Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God, risen
from the dead.

"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born
again." (John 3:7 KJV)
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."

When you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour,
His Holy Spirit moves into your heart. He actually lives
in you, and you live in Him.
"Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear
fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more
can ye, except ye abide in me." (John 15:4 KJV)

4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see
see your good works, and glorify your Father which is
in heaven." (Matthew 5:16 KJV; see also Matthew 5:15)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
"Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art
in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary
deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee
to the officer, and thou be cast into prison."
(Matthew 5:25 KJV)
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and
cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that
one of thy members should perish, and not that thy
whole body should be cast into hell.
"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and
cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that
one of thy members should perish, and not that thy
whole body should be cast into hell."
(Matthew 5:29-30 KJV)
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
"But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by
heaven; for it is God's throne:

"Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by
Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

"Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou
canst not make one hair white or black.

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay:
for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

(Matthew 5:34-37 KJV)
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an
eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but
whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn
to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:38-39 KJV)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED."
(Go the extra mile.)

"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take
away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

"And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with
him twain.

"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would
borrow of thee turn not thou away."
(Matthew 5:40-42 KJV)

 

[JohnRabbit]

10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
continue with Jesus' commandments


"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them
that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and
pray for them which despitefully use you, and
persecute you;

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is
in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on
the unjust."

(Matthew 5:43-45 KJV)
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to
be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your
Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1 KJV)
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are:
for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the
corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have their reward.

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when
thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret;
and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do:
for they think that they shall be heard for their much
speaking."

(Matthew 6:5-7 KJV)

13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
And the power,
And the glory,
For ever.
Amen.
(Matthew 6:9-15 KJV)

14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
"Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad
countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may
appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their
reward." (Matthew 6:16)

15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and
rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither
moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break
through nor steal:

"For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."
(Matthew 6:19-21)
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."

"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what
ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body,
what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the
body than raiment?

"Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they
reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth
them. Are ye not much better than they?"

(Matthew 6:25-26 KJV)
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall
take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day
is the evil thereof." (Matthew 6:34 KJV)
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF
ALL YOUR NEEDS."
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his
righteousness; and all these things shall be
added unto you." (Matthew 6:33 KJV)
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
"Judge not, that ye be not judged.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with
what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

(Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and
said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first
cast a stone at her. (John 8:7 KJV)

20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS
BEFORE SWINE."
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye
your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under
their feet, and turn again and rend you."
(Matthew 7:6 KJV)


21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye
shall find.)
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" (Matthew 7:7 KJV)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS,
COMFORT THOSE IN DISTRESS."


"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come,
ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for
you from the foundation of the world:

"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty,
and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

"Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I
was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
The wide gate is the gate you simply stumble through, when you
are not paying attention.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad
is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be
which go in thereat:

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
(Matthew 7:13-14 KJV)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
(Matthew 7:15 KJV)

25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."

"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples,
he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out,
and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
(Matthew 10:1 KJV)
"Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast
out devils: freely ye have received, freely give."
(Matthew 10:8 KJV)
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones;
for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do
always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
(Matthew 18:10 KJV)

27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master,
even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one
is your Father, which is in heaven.

"Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master,
even Christ.

"But he that is greatest among you shall be your
servant.

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased;
and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."
(Matthew 23:8-12 KJV)
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "

"Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee,
go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone:
if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one
or two more, that in the mouth of two or three
witnesses every word may be established.

"And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto
the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let
him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."
(Matthew 18:15-17 KJV)
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP."
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not
us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly
speak evil of me.

"For he that is not against us is on our part."
(Mark 9:38-40 KJV)
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."

"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in
God.

"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say
unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast
into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but
shall believe that those things which he saith shall
come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye
desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,
and ye shall have them."
(Mark 11:22-24 KJV)
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
"Then Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou
likewise." (Luke 10:37b KJV)
This was in reference to the Parable Of The
Good Samaritan, who helped and took care of
a man who had been attacked by robbers.
(See Luke 10:30-35)

32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
"This is my commandment, That ye love one another,
as I have loved you." (John 15:12 KJV)
NOTE: This one commandment summarizes
all the others.
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
"And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and
gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given
for you: do this in remembrance of me. Likewise also
the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new
testament in my blood, which is shed for you."
(Luke 22:19-20 KJV)
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
The full meaning of this dramatic command is for us
to care for each other's needs as if they were our own.
He also wants us literally to wash each other's feet.
"If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye
also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14 KJV)
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
"Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."
(Luke 6:36 KJV)
" . . . for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil."
(Luke 6:35b KJV)

36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM."
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the
name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto
the end of the world." Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
"If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 KJV)
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."
"Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh
at an hour when ye think not." (Luke 12:40 KJV)

and yes, this was another cut and paste job.

 

[from scratch]

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 ( NKJV ) 26“Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you today; 28and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

the "you" in these verses is the COI. i'm sorry that i didn't answer that earlier, hope i'm right on that.

Well I was wondering why you even made such a comment. I think we all know that there are blessing and curses in the law. The reason I asked is because I think you presented it for the purpose of applying it to the Christian. I can see no reason to mention it. If one follows the law that would make sense to me.

there are not two covenants! rather, there is the old covenant and the new and both represent a marriage.

Sounds reasonable to me.

now to jeremiah:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 ( NKJV ) 31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with

the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their

fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they

broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the

house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their

hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor,

and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the

greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

now, let's look at what you said:

"This covenant will not be like the one God made with their Fathers that He (God) made with them at Sinai."

you are absolutely right on that. the new covenant is different from the old, but how?

is it that one has law and the other don't? that's not what i find in the bible.

Exodus 16:4 ( NKJV ) 4Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you. And the people shall go out and gather a certain quota every day, that I may test them, whether they will walk in My law or not.

God said He wanted to see if they will walk in His law. now of course the old covenant had law. like i said before, God had law before sinai.

now jeremiah:

33But this is the covenant that I will make with the

house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their

hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

again with the new covenant, God is concerned with law. so, i think it has been established that the old and new covenant is concerned with law. so, what makes them different enough that one is classified as "new"?

Once again you leave out v 31 in your comments. Why?

Hebrews 8:6 ( NKJV ) 6But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.

So what are the promises of the OC or first covenant?

it's the promises that are different, better even. the old covenant had physical promises, and the new covenant has spiritual promises. the shadow of things to come, was that the physical represented the spiritual to come.

So they are physical promises? To whom do these physical promises pertain to?

now, out of the 613 (plus frogster's rule don't want to leave that out) commandments, God wrote ten of them Himself (ex 31:18). so i ask, the fact that God wrote the ten is not significant to you?

Are the 10 commandments the covenant? I think so according to Deut 4:13. These are also called the law in James 2:10, 11. Paul makes the same claim in Romans 7:6, 7. Both of them quote on or more of the 10 commandments which they call the law. You might find my comments in the Covenant Theology Basics thread in Covenant Theology. It is right at the top say in the first 3 or 4.

 

[from scratch]

i was raised baptist, and went to church every sunday until i was about 19 years old. i realized then that i didn't know anything about the bible or what God wants us to do or be. i mean, i didn't even know who the jews were. i just thought they killed Jesus and that was their significance (boy, was i bright).

but after i learned the truth, i learned that other bible translations can be of valuable help. before that i only read from the kjv, believing all that stuff people say about other translations.

i am impressed with your knowledge of scripture, so i know i can learn from you. thanks for that and i know we step on each other toes now and then, but i want you to know that i'm not about "being right", rather, what i learn from you.

i'll probably be stepping on your toes some more, but i think that's to be expected with some of the differences we have about the scriptures.

never personal, though.

i think i've written enough so that we can ask questions back and forth on this subject.

Well I think you have hit a nail squarely on the head. It is the case with most people who call themselves Chistian. They haven't even read their own love letter. What a shame.

Scratch