Baptism and communion

mikeforjesus

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I decided to accept baptism as necessary for salvation just so I may test if change happens. Even if it is not required if it fills with understanding gifts of Spirit to be useful. For though I believe infant baptism could be valid as I am told by my dad that God apply that baptism when person believes I believe baptism is supposed to happen after faith. I will get baptised in church of Christ but anyway I know those who are still alive who repented to desire it seeking so can be saved.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I decided to accept baptism as necessary for salvation just so I may test if change happens. I will get baptised in church of Christ but anyway I know those who are still alive who repented to desire it seeking so can be saved.

Don't think of baptism as an obstacle God puts in your way in order for you to "get saved". Instead, trust in Christ, and it is Christ who makes you new. God gives you faith, works faith, creates faith, strengthens faith. Thus hear the word, believe it; be baptized for here God unites you to Christ and washes you clean in the blood of the Lamb, faithfully receive the Lord's Supper where He gives Himself--His own body and blood--for you. These are not obstacles, works, which you need to bend over backwards in order to impress God or score points with God. God does not put obstacles in front of us so that we can attain salvation; God graciously, lovingly, comes down to meet us right here in our unworthiness, to love us and to rescue us. He comes down in the preaching of the Gospel, He comes down in Baptism, He comes down in the Eucharist, He comes down, always coming down, to love you, to declare to you that you are forgiven, to clothe you with Christ's righteousness, to say to you that you are His beloved child, adopted by His grace. He gives you Himself, freely, out of His love, by His grace, unearned, but freely for you because that's who He is. The God who loves you unconditionally in Christ.

Yes, be baptized! Glory to God! But in your baptism praise God who gives Himself to you, who here loves you, has always loved you, who is gracious to you, who always has been gracious to you and always will be gracious to you. Who meets you in the meager, mundane element of water, by which He declares you His own, freely by His grace. You did not earn it, and you never needed to earn it: He is yours, because He gives Himself to you as free gift. Because He knew you and loved you before all the worlds came into being; and sent His only-begotten Son, for you.

Baptism is a gift, not a work.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Dan Perez

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I believe I was right to trust God as God is just so if a person believed in Him yet was persuaded later baptism is not necessary to be saved but just should be done as a profession of commitment as a testimony that one is commiting to Christian faith to make disciples then I have faith one would be accepted but one can do so if one thinks he must I don’t think we can judge I believe God will accept if they are worried and think He won’t they can do so I believe even if one refuses to be baptised now even if he heard plausible arguments why it is required if he is not convinced and believes he does not need it trusting in God because He is just that He would not require it believing indeed that He would not require it as God cares about the heart and believes it is not required because if one was following Him but he chose not to and just because he did not get baptized or break bread with someone often that God would reject him because of a ritual so one just may not believe it really though if he really believes such is essential he can do but some do not really believe such is essential myself too trusting God is just not believing God would really care for such rituals to save people. And some may believe as bible says we were not saved by works as Galatians says you were saved by faith not born of the will of man and we received the Spirit by faith and not works of the law
I believe that WATER BAPRIM has never been required for TODAY .

John 1: 31 n reads , And knew Him NOT / OV is a DISJUCATIVE PARTICILE NEGATIVE and means he NEVER knew Jesus , BUT that he should be made MANIFEST ( or KNOWN ) TO Israel . therefore am I come BAPTIZING with WATER .

We see that John was sent to WATER BAPTIZE Israel and NOT the BODY OF CHRIST .


Yet in Acts 2:38 It says for Israel to REPENT be converted forn your sins to be blotted out , so the times of refreshing may come from the FACE of the Lord .

#1 First the have to REPENT !

#2 Be converted ?

#3 And what are the TIMES of Refreshing , then mean ?
#4 Then in Matt 3:15 Jesus was WATER BAPTIZED by John to FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS .

#5 So what does to FULFIL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS MEANS ??

Why was only , Israel told to be WATER BAPTIZED ?

In Rev 1:6 , it says that Israel was to be KINGS and PRIESTS , so is that wahat the B O C IS TO BE ??

dan p
 
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Dan Perez

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I think so too it is not required but can’t say and does not hurt for all to do and communion too that they may all have power of Spirit in one life if it is required. For I do not know for sure if others were able to endure persecution or how much without it.
And many TRUST that water baptism can SAVE ,like when they read Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 .

dan p
 
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ViaCrucis

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And many TRUST that water baptism can SAVE ,like when they read Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 .

dan p

You might be surprised to learn that nobody believes getting wet saves them.

What we believe, and by "we", I mean those of us who hold to a traditional and biblical understanding of the Sacrament of Holy Baptism, is that Baptism is a means of grace through which God, yes, saves us. But that's because we believe that God's saving power and work is something that happens right here and now. When we hear the Gospel and believe, when we receive Baptism, when we partake of the Lord's Supper, when the word is preached and God works and strengthens our faith.

As a Lutheran I affirm the central teaching of the Evangelical Reformation: Justification by grace alone through faith alone.

What is the doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone? Simply it is this: God out of the superabundance of His grace and kindness grants to me and all sinners the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, declaring me righteous on Christ's account, imputing to me (accrediting to me) the righteousness of Jesus Christ. And this I receive through faith, and faith alone. So that when the word is proclaimed and I hear it, God works and creates faith (Romans 10:17) to receive this immeasurable gift. Not by anything I have done, not by my own power, my own reason, not by works, not even by believing the right things--but purely out of God's own loving kindness. For "by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not by works, so that none may boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Therefore all which I have, I receive passively, like a naked beggar on the street whom God has seen, and into my empty hand He places this gift, and all gifts. And what is this gift? The righteousness of Christ Himself, at the Court of Mt. Calvary I was declared free and innocent, based solely on the merit of Christ alone. And so I have been clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27), and have eternal life in Him, from Him, and with Him. I am a joint-heir with Christ, a child of God, the Holy Spirit alive in me as the guarantee of all these promises.

So wherever there is faith--wherever God is working to create faith--there He is justifying me freely by His grace. Declaring my sins forgiven. The once-and-finished work of Christ is my daily salvation, my hourly salvation, my moment-by-moment salvation. For God declares me forgiven, He declares me righteous on account of Christ and what He has done alone; and so through faith I am reckoned righteous solely by God's own loving-kindness.

Does getting wet save me? Of course not.

But was God saving me in my baptism? Of course He was. For there, connected with the water, is His very word, and so He washes me and cleanses me (Ephesians 5:26). So that I have the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), clothed with Christ (Galatians 3:27), buried with Christ and have new life with Christ (Romans 6:3-4), and indeed saves me, not as though it were cleaning dirt off my skin, but the answer of a good conscience before God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Peter 3:21).

You won't find any church that says, "Oh, well you got baptized, it's okay if you don't believe" because that's nonsense. It is impossible to separate baptism from faith. God, through His ordered means of grace, works and creates faith--and that is why Jesus our Lord says, "I am the True Vine, you are the branches, abide in Me". Apart from Him we wither and die, in Him we have life abundantly and eternally.

We abide in Christ through faith, we abide in Christ because God is shouting Jesus to us everywhere: In the Scriptures, in the Sunday morning preaching, in our hymns, in the prayers of the people, in our baptism, in the Lord's Supper, in Confession and Absolution. God has filled His Church with so much abundant grace that she is overflowing with it.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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mikeforjesus

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And many TRUST that water baptism can SAVE ,like when they read Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 .

dan p

It is wrong to say it is absolutely necessary for Christ offered salvation to all even the thief and bible says God is not willing for any to perish but all to come to repentance and Paul says salvation is for all who believe saying that justification is on all who believe but must be repentant. I don’t think baptism even to believe you need to trust to desire it if you can’t is necessary but in case should supposing it is still a command given that is meant to be obeyed but believe says only he who does not believe is condemned so that could include not needing to desire though don’t know.
 
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mikeforjesus

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I believe God wants to judge justly as it is only because of what Christ did not a ritual that if person lives righteously God accepts though I believe baptism takes away sin and to allow to more be filled with Spirit only for preparation to fully take away sin to commune with God in communion be able to be ready that it is necessary to be saved on death but I do seek to be baptised again as adult only if I can confirm there is change.

To do so if by being more filled with Spirit to be able to reveal that such is required to give more experience in doing so to lead to a knowledge to be experiencing Him that He confirms that through having faith in Jesus as trinity or any baptism with formula to be done in name of Jesus which is to be done in name of Father Son and Holy Spirit only if it confirms by doing so.

For if is necessary I would come to know by experience I am guided to show more works to do that is necessary to ever be saved that I feel it’s power as necessary to do to save from hell to only show that afterwards but others who are worried can be baptised and have communion.
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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To add to CryptoLutheran, although EO arent monergistic as Lutherans are, the sacraments are performed in a passive voice. So it is not where the priest does something but rather that something is done to the recipient.

So for example, in baptism, the priest says
"The servant of God, (Name), is baptized in the Name of the Father"
Immersion
"And of the Son"
Immersion
"And of the Holy Spirit"
Immersion
"Amen"
 
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mikeforjesus

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As I said in thread I have feeling I should obey this I meant to post here but still will leave there as I am teaching that now that I believe should leave to Christ trusting Him that His judgements will be just. I posted below.

I honestly believe it is best to teach whole gospel trusting God leaving it to Him knowing He is just that no one has excuse to seek to judge others who believe they need to be baptised incase they die at any time while not seeking to be and without it perhaps you can die at any time while not seeking to that there is risk to die at any time while not seeking to that risk will be greater if you do not or even if not can die at anytime and if you risk if at anytime not taking seriously to do which is likely to do so one should.

It is wrong to judge if they can’t know bible does not teach that though they believe it is not important and they should also admit they could be wrong and they should teach it to be united. God alone will decide and should trust Him to be just. I also think should teach communion to do sometimes too though some disagree to believe Jesus did not teach communion as others see it but they should do it to admit they can be wrong for Jesus said to do it until He comes.
 
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mikeforjesus

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I don’t know if according to others if you trust in your baptism Christ can not save but I want to be baptised incase to claim Holy Spirit comes though I don’t believe it is as gentiles got it from hearing gospel and was just done afterwards saying can any forbid water to be done as next step not to be saved from hell but to be washed to forgive sins to be saved now. I can be baptised to accept to surrender that I need to be but in doing so not to put full trust not a full acceptance if it does not prove afterwards so that is my decision that I don’t fully trust in it but in Christ but I do accept it may be to accept obedience on condition it proves but I am not putting trust in it as if it does I say not to accept.
 
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FireDragon76

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You guys make it sound like what Christ did had nothing to do with "rituals". This is a betrayal of who Christ was. Christ was baptised. If he rejected baptism's validity because it was a "ritual", he had a strange way of showing it.
 
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mikeforjesus

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One only needs to seek to be baptised and have communion as we should hold incase required but God knows and is just so if anyone turns to christ at any time seeking such he would be saved and I want to try only for believers and for those who hold same beliefs so if one was looking for one with same beliefs to desire one can be saved or seeking to do with one with same beliefs so one should always seek to look however one effort one can do so he will be secure supposing they were required. It seems there is no Protestant churches that hold not just real presence but to accept atleast perhaps transubstantiation so it makes my life harder to follow only bible but I believe is right.
 
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Dan Perez

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One only needs to seek to be baptised and have communion as we should hold incase required but God knows and is just so if anyone turns to christ at any time seeking such he would be saved and I want to try only for believers and for those who hold same beliefs so if one was looking for one with same beliefs to desire one can be saved or seeking to do with one with same beliefs so one should always seek to look however one effort one can do so he will be secure supposing they were required. It seems there is no Protestant churches that hold not just real presence but to accept atleast perhaps transubstantiation so it makes my life harder to follow only bible but I believe is right.
I have to see a Greek word for Transubstantiation in the BIBLE and sure would lie a verse where it is FOUND ?

dan p
 
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mikeforjesus

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Paul said the bread that we eat is it not the communion of the body of Christ that it was actually something of benefit as he said you can not drink from the Lord cup and the cup of demons. Anyway I don’t care for transubstantian perhaps I don’t believe it also that literally the substance turns but that it turns to spiritually for those who believe but Protestants do not follow that and it should change for people needs to be met.

I previously said I decided not to trust baptism out of fear but that is unreasonable for though I believe may not need it is Christ commandment and Christ will understand if person thinks important and leave judgement of others to Him knowing He is just. For He may have made those ordinances to help strengthen people to follow Him to serve to bring more fruit and to have strength when under persecution.

Some make the point that Jesus could never have meant His body though He said take eat this is my body because He did not die it is something to think about I can not explain but it still could be. I know God knows future for He knows what all men will choose just as He knew judas choice and all prophets predicted what will actually happen.
 
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Dan Perez

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You guys make it sound like what Christ did had nothing to do with "rituals". This is a betrayal of who Christ was. Christ was baptised. If he rejected baptism's validity because it was a "ritual", he had a strange way of showing it.
And Christ baptism was a RITUAL , and where is a verse for that RITUAL ?

Israel did not know water baptism was until John the Baptizer came on the scene in John 1:31 and this baptism was only given to Israel ??

Why not given to Judah , Samaritans and to Gentiles ?

When you see the Greek word BAPTISM , does it ALWAYS mean WATER BAPTISM ?

Here is an example in 1N Cor 10:2 , and ALL were BAPTIZED unto Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA ?

How were the Baptized unto Moses , in the CLOUD , and in the SEA ?And HOW .

And how was Israel BAPTIZED unto the CLOUD ?

And BAPTIZED unto the SEA ?

And what does the CLOUD represent ?

And what does the SEA represent ?

And how were the thousands OF Egyptians BAPTIZED .

Just because you the the Greek BAPTISM / BAPTISZO does NOT always meand WATER !!

Here is another one in 1 Cor 15:29 , How were thet BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD ?

dan p
 
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Doug Brents

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And Christ baptism was a RITUAL , and where is a verse for that RITUAL ?

Israel did not know water baptism was until John the Baptizer came on the scene in John 1:31 and this baptism was only given to Israel ??

Why not given to Judah , Samaritans and to Gentiles ?

When you see the Greek word BAPTISM , does it ALWAYS mean WATER BAPTISM ?

Here is an example in 1N Cor 10:2 , and ALL were BAPTIZED unto Moses , in the CLOUD and in the SEA ?

How were the Baptized unto Moses , in the CLOUD , and in the SEA ?And HOW .

And how was Israel BAPTIZED unto the CLOUD ?

And BAPTIZED unto the SEA ?

And what does the CLOUD represent ?

And what does the SEA represent ?

And how were the thousands OF Egyptians BAPTIZED .

Just because you the the Greek BAPTISM / BAPTISZO does NOT always meand WATER !!

Here is another one in 1 Cor 15:29 , How were thet BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD ?

dan p
I see your points that it seems to be what matters is Spirit baptism that Christ accomplishes when you believe but might as well be water baptised to be sure.
The baptism that brings about our reception of salvation is an act that man must DO (Mark 16:16, Matt 28:19, Acts 22:16). This cannot be Spirit baptism, because man cannot make the Spirit baptize anyone. That means, as 1 Pet 3:21 so clearly and directly states, that it is water baptism that is in reference in Col 2:11-14 and Rom 6:1-4 where we are told that the Spirit takes action during baptism to remove our sins and unite us with Jesus' death and resurrection. This is not just a symbolic ritual, but the point in time at which the Spirit takes action to save us through the power of Jesus' death on the cross, His spilled blood, and His resurrection that defeated death.
 
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Dan Perez

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As I said in thread I have feeling I should obey this I meant to post here but still will leave there as I am teaching that now that I believe should leave to Christ trusting Him that His judgements will be just. I posted below.

I honestly believe it is best to teach whole gospel trusting God leaving it to Him knowing He is just that no one has excuse to seek to judge others who believe they need to be baptised incase they die at any time while not seeking to be and without it perhaps you can die at any time while not seeking to that there is risk to die at any time while not seeking to that risk will be greater if you do not or even if not can die at anytime and if you risk if at anytime not taking seriously to do which is likely to do so one should.

It is wrong to judge if they can’t know bible does not teach that though they believe it is not important and they should also admit they could be wrong and they should teach it to be united. God alone will decide and should trust Him to be just. I also think should teach communion to do sometimes too though some disagree to believe Jesus did not teach communion as others see it but they should do it to admit they can be wrong for Jesus said to do it until He comes.
I do not mind when you are JUDGDING ME when 1 Cor 5:1-2 and also 1 Cor 6:1-6 and we are to JUDGE , SORRY !!

dan p
 
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