Baghdad/Iraq is "Great Babylon"

[Covenant Heart]

The bible takes the plagues and puts them in two groups.

first

last

The seven trumpets come first and then the rapture of the church. Jesus takes the all changed in the twinkling of an eye crowd to heaven and then the seven trumpet angels show up again - but no longer having trumpets (but forever they will have their trumpet story attached to them) get told to go and pour out the vials of God's wrath.

...After Those Which Befell Egypt--

and should be read in that light.

In the final analysis, all prophecies of disaster form a continuation of the revelation of God’s judgment, just as all prophecies of salvation form a single word concerning the revelation of God’s salvation. Moreover, the completion of each of the judgment series leads to the first in the next. The seals, trumpets and bowls all return to the first to cover the same ground again, although from a different perspective and with greater intensity. The first seal, first trumpet and first bowl are to be read together to form a composite picture of this aspect of God’s judgment. The second in each series likewise go together, and the third, and so on to the end.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

 

[interpreter]

But here you are very imaginative.
Where is the two witnesses or the requirement that everyone in the world must take the mark of the name mark or number of the MAN of sin or son of perdition.
Also what about Jesus? He did not show up in the clouds at the end of world war II

The two witnesses that Hitler killed are Jews and Christians. In his book, "Mein Kampf" Hitler states his plan to require everyone in the world, in order to buy food, to carry a paper from the Third Reich authorizing it. Jesus said if those days were not cut short, no flesh would be saved.

During WW II, Hitler was often depicted as the beast of the Revelation (in cartoons, etc.). But afterwards, as you say, Jesus did not immediately make a bodily return in the clouds, and most Christians changed their mind about Hitler being the antiChrist. They failed to consider that the Revelation unfolds over many centuries.

A very vague explanation.

Aids is new and one we should consider. but what are the other six?

The 7 last plagues are: skin cancer, red tides, poluted springs and rivers, global warming, other new diseases (including AIDS), the Euphrates going dry, and the Battle of Ar Mageddon.

Again thank you for the correction, but no forces came accross where you point to.

We are seeing the world being gathered together for another great war but you are jumping the gun to call it Ar Magadon.

9/11 occured when the Euphrates was dry, and forces are now fighting where the Euphrates dried up. And the the war against Islamic terrorists is fast becoming a world war, and will no doubt spill over into the Holy Land, and that makes it the Battle of Ar Mageddon.

brother Barry

 

[interpreter]

I have to ask.. if the battle of armageddon, is named after a specific place... where people are said to be gathered together... why would it not happen in that place... or apparently have any connection whatsoever to that place?

Armageddon is in hebrew Har Meggido. Its the site of the ancient city of Meggido in Israel, and the valley leading from that city down towards the sea.

There is a lot of debate over what Ar Mageddon means, but Ar means city and Mageddon means "sanctuary." The City of the santuary could be a reference to Jerusalem and the holy mount which is the site of 3 sanctuaries held dear by the world's 3 major religions. IMO, Ar Mageddon has nothing to do with the ruins of the ancient city of Mageddo which are not worth fighting a world war over.

It may also be that Jerusalem is the great city that will be divided three ways (between the Christians, Muslims and Jews -- see Rev. 16:19). It certainly would not make sense to divide the ruins of Megiddo 3 ways, or fight a major battle there..

One should also consider that the original sanctuary of God was the Garden of Eden, so the great city of the sanctuary could possibly be Baghdad. It may be that Baghdad/Iraq will ultimately be divided 3 ways beween the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds.

Barry

 

[interpreter]

I thought they were the ones that overthrow "Babylon"? Daniel 12 does involve the Apostate Jewish Nation of Daniel's people correct? [The Muslims of course have their own view of Jesus returning]. Thoughts?

One of the demon possessed kings of the east is presumably the ruler of Babylon (see Rev. 16:12-19)

Luke 21:20 " But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its Desolation is near. 21 "Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter Her.

In Luke 21:20, Jesus predicts the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Reve 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her Desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn Her with fire. 17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

The ten horns are the 10 nations that were alligned with Hitler. The harlot is atheist Moscow, which sits on 7 hills and many seas, and ruled over many people and nations. Moscow was alligned with Hitler at first, and then Hitler turned on Moscow and hated her. It appears that 2 or more falls of "great Babylon" are predicted, one of them being atheist era Moscow/the USSR which has already fallen (in 1991).

Barry

 

[Simon_Templar]

Armageddon is a transliteration of Har Meggido from hebrew into greek, which means "the mount (or hill) of Meggido"

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Armageddon

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-Armagedd.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon

http://truthroom.com/farticle/8

The vast majority of sources believe that armageddon is a transliteration of har megiddo.

I found one or two sources that suggested it could also mean the mountain of gathered troops, or battle, something like that, because of the fact that Megiddo was one of the most famous and prolific battle grounds of the ancient world.

It is has little economic importance today, and little political importance.. but it still has the same thing it has always had and that is location. If you are brining an army to Jerusalem, or going to encamp a large army near jerusalem.. this about the only place you can do it easily.

The reason megiddo was important, and the reason the valley below megiddo was such a prolific battle ground was because it formed a virtual highway by which an army must travel to traverse Israel.

 

[Jerrysch]

Hi brain damage,

In the Revelation, a great earthquake is a great war. As a result of the great battle of Ar Mageddon, the "great city" is divided 3 ways.

Barry

?? How is this to be known? Where in Scripture is this meaning rendered for the "symbol"?

 

[Jerrysch]

Hi vinsight,

You must be a futurist.

I hold the historicist view, that the Revelation has been unfolding for many centuries. E.g., the great tribulation was WW II and the 200 million horses are the horsepower unloaded on the beaches of Normany on D-day.
The 7 last plagues have been unfolding for years now: skin cancer, red tides, poluted rivers, global warming, other new diseases, and the lower Euphrates (in Iraq) was dry on 9/11 and still dry when we invaded Iraq. The Battle of Ar Mageddon is now upon us. But don't worry, the demonic kings of the east will be defeated.

Happy Thanksgiving to all,

Barry

Do you know what the phrase "literal hermenunic" means?

 

[Jerrysch]

I believe that the war in Iraq, which began when the Euphrates was dry, marks the beginning of the Battle of Ar Mageddon. All the world is even now being drawn into another world war, also called the "Battle of that Great Day of God Almighty."

I believe that one of the "great Babylons" of the Apocalypse (Rev. 16:19) is Baghdad and/or Iraq which happens to be what Saddam liked to call his country.

If so, I guess Iraq will soon be divided into three parts as prophesied (in 16:19). That appears to me to be the only viable solution, to divide Iraq into three states: a Sunni, Shiite and Kudish one.

Any thoughts?

Barry

How about this Babylon is Babylon. I saw it on google earth, it is still there, Scripture indicates that when it is destroyed (future) there will be no one living there (among other issues) there is a thriving city there now, no need to import meaning into the text regarding the identity of Babylon, its Biblical identity is what is being spoken of.

 

[Covenant Heart]

"Babylon" Means...

--what John meant for it to mean according to his theological purpose. For example, John might draw images from several sources, such as Babylon and Tyre, and gather them into a composite picture to serve his theological intent to say that "Rome sums and surpasses them all!"

Moreover, Revelation has more Pentateuchal material than is often realized, and such items do not easily yield to an eschatological understanding except as an ideal that is universally applicable. If Babylon is Babylon, we would seem obliged to say that the Passover Lamb is the Passover Lamb, that the Exodus is the Eschatological exodus, that the Red Sea is the Red (fiery) Sea (of glass), etc.

So I opt for theological purpose.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

 

[brother daniel]

"Babylon" Means...

--what John meant for it to mean according to his theological purpose. For example, John might draw images from several sources, such as Babylon and Tyre, and gather them into a composite picture to serve his theological intent to say that "Rome sums and surpasses them all!"

Moreover, Revelation has more Pentateuchal material than is often realized, and such items do not easily yield to an eschatological understanding except as an ideal that is universally applicable. If Babylon is Babylon, we would seem obliged to say that the Passover Lamb is the Passover Lamb, that the Exodus is the Eschatological exodus, that the Red Sea is the Red (fiery) Sea (of glass), etc.

So I opt for theological purpose.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

Brtehren dont confuse yourselves this is what John says.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 17:18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9¶And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,Rev 18:11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

The Holy Ghost is not speaking about Iraq or ancient Babylon. We are being directed to Jerusalem and the Vatican City in Rome that claims by Jewish and Roman Catholic cannon law,secular authority over all the kings of earth.

It is the the strange marrage of Catholic and Jewish merchants that established Rome, Istanbul, Paris, London Amsterdam, Moscow Berlin, New York, and all the other great merchant cities of the modern world.

It is a secular culture built on religious hypocrisy.
God doesent like it and its coming down.

God is using Islam in the same way he used Assyria to bring down those who use his name in vain. Not that Islamics are any better because they are not, but he has given those people the sword of vengence to use against all other liers and deceavers.

Jesus has taught us to love our enemies. They grow in number daily.

With love in Christ
brother daniel






,

 

[Jerrysch]

"Babylon" Means...

--what John meant for it to mean according to his theological purpose. For example, John might draw images from several sources, such as Babylon and Tyre, and gather them into a composite picture to serve his theological intent to say that "Rome sums and surpasses them all!"

Moreover, Revelation has more Pentateuchal material than is often realized, and such items do not easily yield to an eschatological understanding except as an ideal that is universally applicable. If Babylon is Babylon, we would seem obliged to say that the Passover Lamb is the Passover Lamb, that the Exodus is the Eschatological exodus, that the Red Sea is the Red (fiery) Sea (of glass), etc.

So I opt for theological purpose.

Blessings!
Covenant Heart

This is not really true. You can't just dismiss the literal meaning of a word or consept without "due process". If that were allowed we cauld redefine all the nouns in the Bible and bring in the USA and Jimmy Carter and anyone else you would like to see in the Bible. A good example of this is toconsider all the references to Israel and thier becomming a nation again. In 1700's no one would have ever thought it was going to be a literal event, not even in 1850 was anyone seriously suggesting that tit would be a literal event , then boom in 1948 what happened? Israel became a nation again, wow!! God intended the future references to the nation of Israel to be understood literally!! Now lets look at this city of Babylon, Scripture indicates that it is to be destroyed (in the future from the life of Isaiah) Observe;

13:19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the glory of the Babylonians' [b] pride,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.

20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there,
no shepherd will rest his flocks there.
21 But desert creatures will lie there,
jackals will fill her houses;
there the owls will dwell,
and there the wild goats will leap about. 22 Hyenas will howl in her strongholds,
jackals in her luxurious palaces.
Her time is at hand,
and her days will not be prolonged.

Quoting from wikipedia ;

Babylon was a city in Mesopotamia, the ruins of which can be found in present-day Babil Province, Iraq, about 50 miles south of Baghdad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon

I would also suggest that you view

http://architecture.about.com/library/bl-babylon.htm

And if you are blessed to be able to use google earth you can see an actual image from space showing the thriving settlement were Babylon once stood. Now in light of this we are left with only two conclusions, 1) God was wrong in regards to the distruction of the ancient city of Babylon in that there are many houses and homes there and a thriving settlement exists don't forget verse 20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there,
no shepherd will rest his flocks there.

Option 2) The distruction spoken of in Isaiah has not happened as yet!!! But be assured as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow it will be destroyed as spoke on in Isaiah and in the book of Revelation.

 

[Jerrysch]

Brtehren dont confuse yourselves this is what John says.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev 17:18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 18:8
Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
Rev 18:9¶And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,Rev 18:11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

The Holy Ghost is not speaking about Iraq or ancient Babylon. We are being directed to Jerusalem and the Vatican City in Rome that claims by Jewish and Roman Catholic cannon law,secular authority over all the kings of earth.

It is the the strange marrage of Catholic and Jewish merchants that established Rome, Istanbul, Paris, London Amsterdam, Moscow Berlin, New York, and all the other great merchant cities of the modern world.

It is a secular culture built on religious hypocrisy.
God doesent like it and its coming down.

God is using Islam in the same way he used Assyria to bring down those who use his name in vain. Not that Islamics are any better because they are not, but he has given those people the sword of vengence to use against all other liers and deceavers.

Jesus has taught us to love our enemies. They grow in number daily.

With love in Christ
brother daniel






,

Again we are encouraged to forsake a literal meaning of the city Babylon with out due cause, what is wrong with letting Babylon be Babylon? What Scriptural basis do you have to suggest your conclusion?

 

[vinsight4u]

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