St Matthew 24.21 is falsified by events

[jamiec]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

 

[HTacianas]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

I think if you keep looking you'll find the answer. I don't mean to sound cryptic, but the answer is de facto Orthodox even if not entirely de jure. Jesus said, "Behold I come as a thief", see Rev 3:3, 16:15. Saint Paul reminded the Thessalonians that Jesus would return as a thief, see 1 Thess 5:2, 5:4. Now, what does a thief do? Jesus answered that question, see John 10:10.

Keep in mind that the only thing that a mattered in those days was Israel, specifically Jerusalem. Jerusalem was central to all of life and all of prophecy. Literally nothing else mattered. Now with that in mind, apply all of that to Jerusalem.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

Matthew 24 is a prophetic chapter that correlates with Daniel and Revelation. It has a dual prophecy- it was referring to the destruction of the temple in 70AD but also has a future application to end times events. Here's a link to an Indepth bible study on it if interested https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrIWJynNsuLALZ9j-oKt-MBHcr0NUqUcF

 

[I's2C]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

1st off you are thinking carnal when CHRIST is speaking of spiritual death. When you lose your soul to the antichrist that is coming back de-jour, he is not coming to kill your flesh, in fact no one dies in the 5 months Satan is here de-facto (6th trump), he is coming to take as many souls with him in the pit he can, sad thing is many will fall. The great apostasy will be many bowing down to him, them thinking he is true Messiah coming to fly them away. The spiritual death is a final death and many are in jeopardy of it. GOD says do not fear those who kill the flesh but the 1 that can kill both the flesh and spirit. Antichrist would immediately give up his hand if he came killing everyone, no he is coming to take your soul. As far as pregnant women it is a blessing and a commandment to be fruitful and multiply. It is not talking about pregnancy the way you are thinking. When CHRIST has been away for 2k years and comes back on 7th trump and finds you have already been impregnated by the false Christ with false teachings than you have been un-faithful and impregnated by him.
When many learn the truth after the 2 witness and 7k Elect Finnish teaching in the synagogues of Satan they want the mountains to fall on them and die so they don't face the true CHRIST, but they cant die and no one will die in those 5 months. When true MESSIAH comes on 7th trump all 8 billion pairs of knees bow down and instantly change into our real spiritual bodies for 1k years of true teaching.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

It has not happened yet. This tribulation is still in the future and will be worse than the events you mentioned.

 

[Ragdoll]

Its a tricky passage and as one of the members here said correctly, it correlates with Revelation. I do not want to tell people here when, if ever, this prophecy was fulfilled. It may not be fulfilled yet and there are reasons to believe that. When it comes to prophecies like this I tend to let time answer it. Give it a little time and you just might see the prophecy fulfilled in real time. Much of Matt.24 is fulfilling since 2005. Just don't rush to conclusions and then dogmatize them when there could be another unfulfilled event that verse is about. Be careful when interpreting prophecy and fair in how you analyze.

 

[65James]

Hallmark card when you care enough to send the very best. God the Father sent His very best Jesus Christ to the Jewish people the greatest Hallmark Card in the History of the World.

The Jewish people not only rejected Him at His First Coming but try to stop the Gospel message to the Gentiles. Paul wrote of God great wrath against them in I Thessalonians 2:14-16. Notice this is God’s Wrath because He gave His very best and His people had total disdain for Him. Yes the numbers maybe higher but as a man who feels like he is under God’s Wrath I much rather have someone any one other than God punishing me as He knows how to get anyone attention and really put a hurt on us.

Yes only 1 million Jews died but at that time that was a greater percentage then your six million in World War II. Plus many more led away captive . The Jewish Temple the center of Judaism was destroyed to most Jews nothing could have been worst. Many died trying to save their Temple.

Read Luke 21:20-24 in this Jesus calls it the days of vengeance. Israel was not a nation for nearly 2000 yrs, this is why Jesus call Jerusalem and Israel a desolate house in Matthew 23:38, Jews had no home for the longest time for rejecting Christ.

So while being persecuted is never good to lose your own National Identity and Spiritual Home was far worse for the Jews.

 

[Strong in Him]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively.

Jesus said "there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now" - i.e. 30AD, or whenever it was that he said it.
He did not say "and it will be similar to the devastation that will happen in 1900+ years time."

It's only a problem if we read it and assume the "now" to be OUR now - i.e. we look back in history at all the wars when Jews were killed.

 

[Peacemaker1]

The tribulation is now, false prophets say it is not, ( since the time there were antichrists they deny Christ in the flesh) what stands in the holy place is faithlessness, all that is not of faith is sin, so no good where there is no faith in Jesus Christ.



Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Jan001]

I think if you keep looking you'll find the answer. I don't mean to sound cryptic, but the answer is de facto Orthodox even if not entirely de jure. Jesus said, "Behold I come as a thief", see Rev 3:3, 16:15. Saint Paul reminded the Thessalonians that Jesus would return as a thief, see 1 Thess 5:2, 5:4. Now, what does a thief do? Jesus answered that question, see John 10:10.

Keep in mind that the only thing that a mattered in those days was Israel, specifically Jerusalem. Jerusalem was central to all of life and all of prophecy. Literally nothing else mattered. Now with that in mind, apply all of that to Jerusalem.

Yes, the "heaven and earth" of the Jews were their temple sacrifices and Levitical religious system. It indeed did pass away in "this generation" (AD 70), exactly as Jesus prophesied.

Jesus will announce His second coming by the blast of the last trumpet. No one knows the day or the hour.

Matthew 25:13 Keep awake therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 Listen, I will tell you a mystery! We will not all die, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on imperishability, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When this perishable body puts on imperishability, and this mortal body puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will be fulfilled:
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

 

[throughfiierytrial]

The passage is as follows:

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22 If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24 BSB

The trouble is, that verse 21 is manifestly false. Something over a million Jews were killed in the War of 66-73 AD - but about 6 millon Jews were killed in the Shoah, and the tyrannies of Stalin and Mao are reckoned to have killed 60 million & 90 million people respectively. Nor are these the only blood-lettings that can credibly be estimated to have killed more people than were killed in the Jewish War.

Clearly it would be wrong to underestimate the atrocious suffering undergone by the Jews during the Jewish war, but nothing can alter the fact that other calamities have killed far more people than the Jewish War did. WW2 Is estimated to have killed about 50 million people altogether; that enormous figure hardly supports the idea that the Jewish War was a period of suffering so great that it would never be equalled or surpassed.

So what do people think about that verse ?

Problem is I don't see your explanation of why it is manifestly wrong. What kind of suffering or evil is going to take place in the last days is not given us. It may be the increase of wickedness Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24:12 which would make it difficult to survive with faith intact. Persecutions may abound to those who do not adhere to this evil.

 

[Jan001]

The tribulation is now, false prophets say it is not, ( since the time there were antichrists they deny Christ in the flesh) what stands in the holy place is faithlessness, all that is not of faith is sin, so no good where there is no faith in Jesus Christ.



Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It seems there will always be tribulation suffered by the people of God. The flesh, the world, and the devil will always be at war with God's people. However, I believe the tribulation prophesied by Jesus occurred in the first century. He said it would occur in "this" generation, meaning the generation of His peers.

 

[Peacemaker1]

It seems there will always be tribulation suffered by the people of God. The flesh, the world, and the devil will always be at war with God's people. However, I believe the tribulation prophesied by Jesus occurred in the first century. He said it would occur in "this" generation, meaning the generation of His peers.

Even Revelation which you quoted for the last trump shows of what is shortly to come.

Of course the word of Jesus is the whole o scripture, and just as Revelation did not speak about 70 AD, but has the ending, the last trump as you quoted, so Jesus speaks about the ending time now also.



Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.