Avoiding the Mark of the beast

[Bible2+]

Alawishis said in post 235:

If you've read the scriptures on the number of the beast you've probably read that it clearly says that:

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
~ Revelation 13:18 KJV.

So trying to apply it to a woman is silly.

Note that in Revelation 13:18, the original Greek word (anthropos: G0444) translated as "of a man" does not refer to the male gender, but can refer to any human, whether male or female. Compare Matthew 4:4, where "anthropos" is translated as "man" in the general sense of "mankind". Similarly, in Revelation 13:18, the original Greek word (autos: G0846) translated as "his" does not refer to the male gender, but can refer to any human, whether male or female. Compare Matthew 1:19, where "autos" is translated as "her". This is not to say that the Antichrist will be a female, but is simply pointing out that nothing in Revelation 13:18 requires a non-female Antichrist.

Alawishis said in post 235:

The beast that comes out of the earth is the lamb-like beast. Beasts represent kingdoms this would be a kingdom as well.

Note that in the Bible, "beasts" can refer figuratively to men (Titus 1:12). In Revelation 13, the second beast, in verses 11-16, represents the individual man who will be the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the first beast's) False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13).

Alawishis said in post 235:

The other beasts arose from the seas and we are told what the seas represent . . .

The False-Prophet beast figuratively coming from the land (Revelation 13:11) could mean that he will come from Christianity, while the Antichrist beast figuratively coming from the sea (Revelation 13:1) could mean that he will not come from Christianity.

The Antichrist could have grown up as a Druze Arab, in Lebanon, in the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). So he could at first present himself to the world as being of the (quasi-Islamic) Druze religion, which is waiting for the second coming of a God-man named Hakim. The Antichrist's last name could be Hakim, and he could at first present himself to the Druze people as the fulfillment of the second coming of this God-man. In this way, he could get the Druze to support him without question during an initial rise to power among the Arabs. The Druze Arabs could be the numerically "small people" of Daniel 11:23. The Antichrist could make them his completely-devoted bodyguard, and buy them many key positions of power within a future, United Arab States (which the Antichrist could become the leader of in the first stage of his world takeover), and employ the Druze as loyal spies and assassins at every level of his United Arab government and military.

The Druze religion is very secretive. What it teaches to its higher-level initiates is not even taught to its lower-level initiates. What it could teach to its higher-level initiates could basically be Gnosticism mixed in with the Hakim God-man idea. The Antichrist himself, while outwardly a Druze, could inwardly be a Gnostic Luciferian. He could be a highest-level initiate of a worldwide secret society which ultimately teaches Gnostic Luciferianism, but keeps this a secret even from its own members who have not been initiated into its highest level.

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Ultimately, the power behind the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9), just as the controllers of the unsaved world have always been (and are still currently) Lucifer and his fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12, Ephesians 2:2-3). But there could also be a secret cabal of human world leaders in big business, finance, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement, politics, the media/entertainment, the military, and religion, who know this fact, and so have secretly become worshippers of Lucifer in order to obtain from him all of the world's power, wealth, and pleasures that they can (cf. Matthew 4:9).

These Luciferians could have been working secretly together for some time (including through a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation) to prepare the way politically, economically, culturally, militarily, and religiously for a single Luciferian human world leader (the Antichrist) to take hegemony over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7b) and, along with his miracle-working False Prophet, to bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 19:20). God will let them succeed in this, but for less than four years (Revelation 13:5b, Daniel 12:11-12), before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, thousand-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the physically resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).

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If Ezekiel 28:2 has application to future events because of its similarity to the never-fulfilled 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then the prince of Tyre could be the future human ruler commonly called the Antichrist (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5-18). If that is the case, then the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12) could be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon), who will empower the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). Lucifer, before his fall and Adam's fall, could have been placed as a covering cherub over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-15).

There is a curious correlation between the prince and the king of Tyre on the one hand (Ezekiel 28), and the use of the name "Hiram" in the mystical teachings of a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation. For Hiram was the name of the human king of Tyre at the time of the building of king Solomon's temple (1 Kings 5). Also, Hiram was the name of another person from Tyre, the human master workman who helped Solomon to build the temple (1 Kings 7:13-14). If the king and the prince of Tyre addressed in Ezekiel 28 are Lucifer and the Antichrist, then the name Hiram would be a perfect code name (not the actual name) for both of them, a name by which their identity within the Gnostic Luciferian teachings of the worldwide secret society could be kept secret from all but its highest-level initiates. Just as the human workman named Hiram built a temple to God in which all the world was to worship (1 Kings 8:41-43), so the Antichrist will bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Revelation 13:4), when the Antichrist gains power over the earth (Revelation 13:7).

The Antichrist's future, Luciferian rule over the earth could be pictured by the most common, publicly known symbol for the worldwide secret society, in which a drafting/measuring compass, an instrument shaped like the two legs of an "A" (as in "Antichrist"), is sometimes shown standing on top of a globe of the earth. And beneath, as in support of, the "A" is a drafting/measuring square, an instrument shaped like an "L" (as in "Lucifer"). Also, found within the "L" is the letter "G", which could ultimately stand for the (false) "Gnosis" (knowledge) of Gnosticism (cf. the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20b), which the secret society (mistakenly) thinks can be found in Lucifer. The Antichrist will teach the ancient Gnostic lie that YHWH God is evil (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), and the ancient Gnostic lie that Christ is not in the flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will also deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

Alawishis said in post 235:

The other beasts arose from the seas and we are told what the seas represent:

And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
~ Revelation 17:15 KJV.

The sea can indeed be symbolic of the multitudes of people who are unsaved and nonelect (Matthew 7:13b, Revelation 17:15), while the land (cf. the land of Israel, the elect: Romans 9:11-24) could represent the relatively few people, compared with all of humanity, who are saved and/or the elect, the chosen (Matthew 7:14, Revelation 22:14).

Alawishis said in post 235:

It also comes up after the Roman empire and after the deadly wound.

Regarding "the deadly wound", this wound of "one of his heads" in Revelation 13:3 could have a dual meaning. It could refer to the revival of a dead, past empire, i.e. one of the seven heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1). And at the same time it could apply, along with Revelation 13:14b, to the revival of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) after he dies from a head wound (probably in an assassination attempt).

Regarding the revival of a dead, past empire, the seven heads of Revelation's "beast" in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent seven different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first five had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The sixth (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The seventh (possibly Islam) had not come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, eighth head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the five empires which had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10-11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon destroyed at Jesus' second coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the second coming, when the world is brought into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system which Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

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Regarding the revival of an assassinated Antichrist, the "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be a perfect, android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist will not want to appear or speak in public again. Instead, only his perfect, android "image" will appear publicly, and speak for him (Revelation 13:15), from then on.

 

[Bible2+]

masmpg said in post 236:

God's word is spiritual, and must be interpreted as such.

Are you thinking of John 6:63? If so, note that it simply means that flesh by itself cannot give us eternal life. John 6:63b is not contradicting that Jesus' words can refer to the flesh. For example, Mark 10:33-34 was fulfilled in the flesh (Luke 24:39). So "spirit" in John 6:63 does not mean "wholly apart from the flesh".

Also, believers need to be careful not to be deceived by the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (2 John 1:7), and that believers will not forever be in the flesh. For the Bible shows that on the 3rd day after his death (Luke 24:46; 1 Corinthians 15:3-4), Jesus Christ was not resurrected as a disembodied spirit, but in his human, flesh and bones body (Luke 24:39, Hebrews 2:17). That is why his tomb is empty (Matthew 28:6), and why he still has the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (John 20:25-29). And Luke 24:39 did not stop being true once Jesus ascended into heaven. For he will remain forever the human mediator/high priest of believers (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 7:24-26), in human flesh, just like they are in human flesh (Hebrews 2:17). And when he returns, he will still have the wounds of the crucifixion on his resurrection body (Zechariah 13:6, Zechariah 12:10-14).

Gnosticism mistakenly thinks that flesh is evil in itself, and that only pure spirit can be good. But Jesus proves that flesh is not evil in itself, for he has been made flesh (John 1:1,14, Romans 1:3, Luke 24:39), and remains wholly without sin (Hebrews 4:15). Genesis also proves that flesh is not evil in itself, but was created by God as something very good (Genesis 1:31). Adam and Eve were flesh, for they were the progenitors of the human race alive today. And they were immortal before they fell into sin, for it was only their falling into sin which made them become mortal (Genesis 2:17). So Adam and Eve started out as immortal flesh. And so the future resurrection (if dead) or changing (if alive) of saved people into immortal flesh bodies like Jesus has (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53, Philippians 3:21, Luke 24:39, Romans 8:23-25) will be God allowing them to partake of the original, immortal-flesh condition of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden before their fall into sin.

Also, beware the more-general Gnostic lie that even the entire physical universe is evil in itself, and that only a purely-spiritual heaven can be good. For this lie is employed by Gnosticism to wrongly revile the Creator God YHWH as an evil, tyrant, lesser god, whom Gnosticism says created the physical universe to be the foul prison house of human spirits, whom Gnosticism says by some mistake fell from bliss in a purely-spiritual heaven down into the physical universe, to become trapped in suffering, fleshly bodies. No doubt the future Antichrist will employ this lie as part of his utter reviling of YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). But Genesis shows that our physical world was created by YHWH as something very good (Genesis 1:31).

And the Bible shows that the whole plan of Creation was not that humans, who are both flesh and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23, Luke 24:39), would become purely-spiritual ghosts and float forever on clouds in a purely-spiritual heaven with God, but that God would become both flesh and spirit like man (John 1:1,14), and that God would ultimately come down from heaven to live with man on a future, new earth (Revelation 21:1-4), just as God had walked on the earth in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:8). Also, on the new earth, saved humanity will be allowed to eat from the literal tree of life (Revelation 2:7, Revelation 22:2,14), just as Adam and Eve had not been forbidden to eat from it in their unfallen state (Genesis 2:9,16-17). So, with regard to saved people, God will completely undo the effect of the fall of Adam and Eve. Saved people will be able to live in an earthly, physical paradise forever with God (Revelation 2:7), just as Adam and Eve and their descendants might have done had not Adam and Eve fallen into sin.

So beware the Gnostic lie. Beware the Antichrist.

*******

masmpg said in post 238:

What I have been saying is that even though a chip or credit card, or even a UPC might be a way to enforce the mark these are not the mark because the mark is about our decision to worship either man or God.

The Antichrist could require that everyone receive an injected RFID microchip, which could be used as an identification device, a debit/credit card, and a repository of emergency healthcare information (e.g., it could alert emergency healthcare workers to any medicinal allergies that you may have). But any such microchip would indeed be separate from the "mark of the beast" (Revelation 16:2, Revelation 13:16-18). For the latter will be visible to people so that they can easily tell in every situation, even one without electricity, whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).

 

[masmpg]

I would say to you that almost everyone will take the mark. Fathers and mothers have an inbred desire to take care of their children. They will take the mark so that they can feed and take care of their families.

Here is a scenario that I have mulled over for a long time. We have been using ATM cards for years. Some countries, like India are removing money from circulation. The largest bill in circulation in India is their 20.00, the government just removed everything higher then that. The reason is for more control over many, and forcing people into cashless ideals. Would you go along with a cashless society using the ATM card? What if after we all took this ATM card because of a cashless world it would be the only means of purchasing anything. Say, a year or so down the line this ATM card is "declared" the "mark" of the beast? What then? Would you give it up? To me this just is very illogical to think that this technology is the mark. You seem to agree with what I do, but technology is NOT THE mark. It is a means to bring the mark to pass. If you are using a cashless system and all of a sudden it became a matter of worship, which is not far from the truth, and we keep using this card we will indeed be receiving the mark of the beast. This is what it will boil down to. History repeats itself. The dark ages are returning with a vengeance. No matter what people think about any denomination to make this a matter of SDA or not, or to disagree with it because it is SDA will cause the loss of a soul. For someone to harden their heart is cause enough for concern about salvation. To close ones ears from the truth is exactly what the jews did just before the murdered the One whom Christians call their Saviour.

Futurists acknowledge the use of figures and symbols. When figurative language is used, one must look at the context to find the meaning. However, figurative language does not justify allegorical interpretation.

You cannot pick and choose the rules, nor when to use them. Interpretation of prophecy has rules that are consistent throughout all of prophecy. God will show you the rules if you let Him. He made it difficult to study His word on purpose! It is NOT easy to enter into the straight and narrow, in fact much harder then the broad road of popular teachings.

 

[Straightshot]

The mark will be an outward identifying symbol worn by choice by those who want to follow the beast

If you are a true believer today you will not be on the earth during the tribulation

If you become a believer during the period you will be persecuted by the beast whether you refuse his mark or not .... he will know if you are faking even if you display his mark

Those who genuinely follow him will be favored and it will be easier for them to exist, to buy, to sell, etc.

Some believers will escape and survive his persecution during the period, but most will be martyred for their faith

 

[masmpg]

The mark will be an outward identifying symbol worn by choice by those who want to follow the beast

If you are a true believer today you will not be on the earth during the tribulation

I know for a fact that the pre trib rapture is not biblical. Jack Van Impe, one of the foremost promoters of this deception said in one of his videos, "even though we cannot prove this teaching from the bible, we can go to the church fathers to find the 'facts'". As far as I'm concerned there are no facts outside the bible when it comes to salvation. To rely on church fathers, creeds, traditions of the elders is dangerous at best. Using bits and pieces of scripture to prove anything will lead to the loss of many.

 

[Straightshot]

"I know for a fact that the pre trib rapture is not biblical"

Really .... give me your details on the matter

Sounds like you may take the mark if you are not careful .... unless you die before the tribulation comes

If you enter the tribulation you will have to hide from the beast to stay alive .... otherwise he will most likely cut your head off

And by the way Impe is a frog and false teacher for many reasons

Just because he has learned to parrot some truth does not mean that he is a straight shooter .... he is not, but is a merchandizer

 

[Major1]

Here is a scenario that I have mulled over for a long time. We have been using ATM cards for years. Some countries, like India are removing money from circulation. The largest bill in circulation in India is their 20.00, the government just removed everything higher then that. The reason is for more control over many, and forcing people into cashless ideals. Would you go along with a cashless society using the ATM card? What if after we all took this ATM card because of a cashless world it would be the only means of purchasing anything. Say, a year or so down the line this ATM card is "declared" the "mark" of the beast? What then? Would you give it up? To me this just is very illogical to think that this technology is the mark. You seem to agree with what I do, but technology is NOT THE mark. It is a means to bring the mark to pass. If you are using a cashless system and all of a sudden it became a matter of worship, which is not far from the truth, and we keep using this card we will indeed be receiving the mark of the beast. This is what it will boil down to. History repeats itself. The dark ages are returning with a vengeance. No matter what people think about any denomination to make this a matter of SDA or not, or to disagree with it because it is SDA will cause the loss of a soul. For someone to harden their heart is cause enough for concern about salvation. To close ones ears from the truth is exactly what the jews did just before the murdered the One whom Christians call their Saviour.



You cannot pick and choose the rules, nor when to use them. Interpretation of prophecy has rules that are consistent throughout all of prophecy. God will show you the rules if you let Him. He made it difficult to study His word on purpose! It is NOT easy to enter into the straight and narrow, in fact much harder then the broad road of popular teachings.

I now firmly believe that the "Debit CArd" system will be the MArk of the Beast.

The UPC code can be printed/tatoed on the person and then all one has to do is put his hand under the scanner and BOOM!

The mark on the skin would replace the card in the pocket. That way the mark would be visible and no one could then steal your money. It would be easy for the A/C to promote safety and convience as a tool.

 

[Guess Who?]

This me super paranoid. Is it physical? Is it not? If the devil tricks me, even if it's only for a second to think evilly, am I doomed? How can I be sure I don't have the mark?

How do you know you are not already deceived?

It's a serious question.

 

[Bible2+]

masmpg said in post 243:

If you are using a cashless system and all of a sudden it became a matter of worship, which is not far from the truth, and we keep using this card we will indeed be receiving the mark of the beast.

Note that Revelation 13:17 does not say that the mark itself will perform buy/sell transactions, like debit/credit cards do today. It only says that without the mark, people will not be permitted to buy or sell. A present-day analogy of this distinction would be how club-member cards do not perform buy/sell transactions at members-only stores, like debit/credit cards do, yet without a club-member card, people are not permitted to buy anything at those stores, even if they have a debit/credit card.

That is, a literal, visible, scarification "mark of the beast" on the right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16), consisting of the Antichrist's name or the (666) gematrial number of his name (Revelation 13:17-18), would not replace debit/credit cards to electronically perform buy/sell transactions. Instead, a scarification mark of the Antichrist would be in addition to them, just as today the club-member cards of members-only stores do not replace debit/credit cards, but are in addition to them. Just as without a club-member card, people today are not permitted to buy anything at a members-only store, even if they have a debit/credit card, so without the Antichrist's scarification mark, people during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18) will not be permitted to buy anything (Revelation 13:17), even if they have a debit/credit card.

The reason that people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what had just been shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they are loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

 

[Aryeh]

Note that it is the other way around. For just as Abraham received physical circumcision as a sign of his spiritual righteousness by conscious faith in YHWH God (Romans 4:11), so the future mark of the beast (if it is willingly received) will serve as an physical sign that someone is a conscious worshipper of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his speaking image (Revelation 13:4-18).



Note that the forehead mark of God in Ezekiel 9:4 could have been a physical mark visible to humans, like the mark of God in Genesis 4:15 was visible to humans. Similarly, the future forehead mark (or seal) of God in Revelation 7:3 will be visible to humans. For it will be visible to the physical locust-like beings (Revelation 9:4), and it was visible to John the apostle (Revelation 14:1). Also, the marks (in this case persecution scars) of the Lord Jesus on Paul's body in Galatians 6:17 were visible to humans. So the Antichrist's future mark (probably a scar, purposely applied by scarification) of the Antichrist's name or a representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:16-18) will be visible to humans, so that they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17).

God made the covenant first with Moses - the [spiritual] agreement first. God would not have made that agreement with him if he wasn't already aligned to Him through his FOREHEAD/behavior.

The physical action of circumcision was an act of substantiating the alignment through the willful actions of Moses (and anyone else.)

Spiritual, then physical. But, order isn't necessarily important. The mechanisms are.

Forehead: your frontal lobe controls behaviors, learning, personality and voluntary movement. If your forehead is marked for God, your personality, behavior, and learning will reflect it.

The voluntary movement portion of the front lobe/forehead leads to...

Right (Dominant) Hand: The dominant hand is the instrument of the body used to physically execute will. Of your dominant actions are aligned with God, you will do things to reflect this.

The frontal lobe and right hand work together to create a complete "mark/beacon" of alignment. It is written that the enemy will have knowledge of who forsakes the holy covenant: how? Because the enemies, spiritual at base, will recognize the spiritual marking on the individual as aligned to God or satan.

This beacon/mark also identifies who the dragon needs to be wroth with - the remnant of the seed of the woman pained to be delivered.

Barcodes, debit cards, tattoos, chips, etc. are distractions from the actual markings people will get during the tribulation.

You will either have the Mark of God, or the Mark of the Beast. And, your mental alignment as well as your actions will generate the alignment for the marking.

 

[Guess Who?]

God made the covenant first with Moses - the [spiritual] agreement first. God would not have made that agreement with him if he wasn't already aligned to Him through his FOREHEAD/behavior.

The physical action of circumcision was an act of substantiating the alignment through the willful actions of Moses (and anyone else.)

Spiritual, then physical. But, order isn't necessarily important. The mechanisms are.

Forehead: your frontal lobe controls behaviors, learning, personality and voluntary movement. If your forehead is marked for God, your personality, behavior, and learning will reflect it.

The voluntary movement portion of the front lobe/forehead leads to...

Right (Dominant) Hand: The dominant hand is the instrument of the body used to physically execute will. Of your dominant actions are aligned with God, you will do things to reflect this.

The frontal lobe and right hand work together to create a complete "mark/beacon" of alignment. It is written that the enemy will have knowledge of who forsakes the holy covenant: how? Because the enemies, spiritual at base, will recognize the spiritual marking on the individual as aligned to God or satan.

This beacon/mark also identifies who the dragon needs to be wroth with - the remnant of the seed of the woman pained to be delivered.

Barcodes, debit cards, tattoos, chips, etc. are distractions from the actual markings people will get during the tribulation.

You will either have the Mark of God, or the Mark of the Beast. And, your mental alignment as well as your actions will generate the alignment for the marking.

I agree with your premise, however, the Mark is given now, has always been here.
I see people with the Mark.

They have aligned themselves with evil.

 

[Major1]

How do you know you are not already deceived?

It's a serious question.

That is the beauty of a pre-tribulation Rapture! You know because you have the Holy Spirit living in you today.

He gives you wisdom and knowledge and understanding and faith.

All of those things come to bear in our minds and we can literally look at our hand or forehead and see that we do not have a mark.

 

[Major1]

God made the covenant first with Moses - the [spiritual] agreement first. God would not have made that agreement with him if he wasn't already aligned to Him through his FOREHEAD/behavior.

The physical action of circumcision was an act of substantiating the alignment through the willful actions of Moses (and anyone else.)

Spiritual, then physical. But, order isn't necessarily important. The mechanisms are.

Forehead: your frontal lobe controls behaviors, learning, personality and voluntary movement. If your forehead is marked for God, your personality, behavior, and learning will reflect it.

The voluntary movement portion of the front lobe/forehead leads to...

Right (Dominant) Hand: The dominant hand is the instrument of the body used to physically execute will. Of your dominant actions are aligned with God, you will do things to reflect this.

The frontal lobe and right hand work together to create a complete "mark/beacon" of alignment. It is written that the enemy will have knowledge of who forsakes the holy covenant: how? Because the enemies, spiritual at base, will recognize the spiritual marking on the individual as aligned to God or satan.

This beacon/mark also identifies who the dragon needs to be wroth with - the remnant of the seed of the woman pained to be delivered.

Barcodes, debit cards, tattoos, chips, etc. are distractions from the actual markings people will get during the tribulation.

You will either have the Mark of God, or the Mark of the Beast. And, your mental alignment as well as your actions will generate the alignment for the marking.

I understand your thoughts and I do not argue or try to change you. All I would say is that you are ADDING to what is there in the Scripture. It is acceptable to express what you believe the Scriptures say, but actually they do not say what you are saying.

I say that with all repect to you my brother as neither of us really know.

I will say however that Revelation 13:16 is AFTER the believers are removed in the Rapture.
Then during the time when all people on the earth expect 2 witnesses and 144,000 Jewish men are LOST......all of men must take the "mark".

Rev. 13:16.......
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

What is actually and literally said is that ALL men are made to RECEIVE a mark.

That can not be explained away or spiritualized. IT IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THAT IT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

 

[Major1]

I agree with your premise, however, the Mark is given now, has always been here.
I see people with the Mark.

They have aligned themselves with evil.

What do you see?

What is the MARK that you see people having?

 

[Major1]

Note that Revelation 13:17 does not say that the mark itself will perform buy/sell transactions, like debit/credit cards do today. It only says that without the mark, people will not be permitted to buy or sell. A present-day analogy of this distinction would be how club-member cards do not perform buy/sell transactions at members-only stores, like debit/credit cards do, yet without a club-member card, people are not permitted to buy anything at those stores, even if they have a debit/credit card.

That is, a literal, visible, scarification "mark of the beast" on the right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16), consisting of the Antichrist's name or the (666) gematrial number of his name (Revelation 13:17-18), would not replace debit/credit cards to electronically perform buy/sell transactions. Instead, a scarification mark of the Antichrist would be in addition to them, just as today the club-member cards of members-only stores do not replace debit/credit cards, but are in addition to them. Just as without a club-member card, people today are not permitted to buy anything at a members-only store, even if they have a debit/credit card, so without the Antichrist's scarification mark, people during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18) will not be permitted to buy anything (Revelation 13:17), even if they have a debit/credit card.

The reason that people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what had just been shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they are loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Luciferians today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

You make very good sense and I do not argue your thinking.

May I just ask you to consider this. IF the mark is a literal bar code which will access your ability to buy food and survive, wouldn't that be an acceptable motivational tool to the people alive after the Rapture. Would it not also explain WHY the Rapture has to happen before the A/C is revealed.

If believers were here to see that, we would all stand up in protest and immediately identify the A/C. For that reason alone, it seems that validates the Rapture doctrine.

Then when the A/C comes to power, he can personally guarantee all the people that he will not allow anymore stealing of money and robberies. He can promote that The only way a person will be able to steal your money or credit or debit or social security number is for them to cut off your right hand and scan it at the place of business. Then we as a government will arrest that person and sentence him to the death penalty.

Don't you think that will be a really great motivation to accept the "Mark/bar code"????

 

[Aryeh]

I agree with your premise, however, the Mark is given now, has always been here.
I see people with the Mark.

They have aligned themselves with evil.

I don't think a however is needed; I also agree with this.

But, for many the mark is a "new" phenomenon that will be most prominently focused during the tribulation. I do not argue against the fact that as of now peoe are being sealed, and in history people were also being sealed.

What isn't talked about with the mark is there is a "cutoff" period for sealing. At some point this there will be no gray area: either you [have the potential through teaching to be taught to] follow the Word of God, or you [have the potential through teaching to] folow the enemy.

So, when Antichrist shows up on the scene, the "sealing" is about done. This is important for people in general, aND for those who believe in a rapture (and MAY) find themselves "left behind.")

 

[Major1]

I don't think a however is needed; I also agree with this.

But, for many the mark is a "new" phenomenon that will be most prominently focused during the tribulation. I do not argue against the fact that as of now peoe are being sealed, and in history people were also being sealed.

What isn't talked about with the mark is there is a "cutoff" period for sealing. At some point this there will be no gray area: either you [have the potential through teaching to be taught to] follow the Word of God, or you [have the potential through teaching to] folow the enemy.

So, when Antichrist shows up on the scene, the "sealing" is about done. This is important for people in general, aND for those who believe in a rapture (and MAY) find themselves "left behind.")

I agree and I think the Bible tells us exactly that in 2 Thess. 2:8-12............
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

That tells me that if a person has heard the gospel, rejected it and the Rapture takes place, that person can not then be saved. THEY will believe the lie of the beast, and will be damned.

 

[Aryeh]

I understand your thoughts and I do not argue or try to change you. All I would say is that you are ADDING to what is there in the Scripture. It is acceptable to express what you believe the Scriptures say, but actually they do not say what you are saying.

I say that with all repect to you my brother as neither of us really know.

I will say however that Revelation 13:16 is AFTER the believers are removed in the Rapture.
Then during the time when all people on the earth expect 2 witnesses and 144,000 Jewish men are LOST......all of men must take the "mark".

Right. I categorically do not believe in a rapture. At all. I spent a decade following preachers and pastors who believed this, only to then see them change their position after their own research - which led me to do my own research without other humans/pastor/ministers.

I still come to the same conclusion that there is no rapture.

Rev. 13:16.......
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

What is actually and literally said is that ALL men are made to RECEIVE a mark.

That can not be explained away or spiritualized. IT IS WHAT IT IS BECAUSE THAT IT WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

Explaining the neurological anatomical implications of the brain as it pertains to the Greek word "charagma" - which is a sign, or branding. It is simply science. The frontal lobe controls behavior, personality, and movement. This IS the spiritual part of your actions. Remember when Christ said, "...if you even look upon a woman, and list after her" you have committed adultery in your heart already?

If your behavior is evil, then your physical intentions are likely to follow. In other words, if you lust, chances are your PERSONALITY, BEHAVIOR AND CONTROL OF VOLUNTRY MOVEMENT will lead you to physically commit the act with your RIGHT (dominant) "hand".

This is a branding; how do you think spiritual entities know WHO to terrorize, and who to rewars?

Now, when this entity comes on the scene, it will use our branding to test our branding. Will we use our frontal lobe (forehead) to change our behavior, and give into the enemy? Will you choose to commit acts with your dominant hand that would substantiate this change?

Starvation and poverty are basic motivators for otherwise good people to do evil things, which is why thsee were mentioned with the mark in Revelation.

Nothing is being added; this mark business has been around since the beginning. The New Covenant itself is a marking (law of God on heart so that our behavior and actions are aligned with Him without the need for written word.)

What am I adding?

In love, I could say the same about you and the rapture. And, I mean that sincerely, not as a goad into argument.

But let me know what I am adding to the word of God.

Or, more precisely, what am I adding to the CANON? This has a lot more implications on the validity of statements.

 

[Aryeh]

I agree and I think the Bible tells us exactly that in 2 Thess. 2:8-12............
"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

That tells me that if a person has heard the gospel, rejected it and the Rapture takes place, that person can not then be saved. THEY will believe the lie of the beast, and will be damned.

Right. That is the cutoff I am talking about. For both sides.

Also, I think an important thing was subtlety mentioned here: antichrist will be nearly impossible to identify as antichrist! Even for Christians (if possible.)

This is a gargantuan wrench in our knowledge of the grand scheme of this entity''s plans.

Can you imaging world war, economic collapse, planetary irradiation, superepidemics, alien invasion, zombie apocalypse, asteroid impacts, mega quake-tsumani-volcano activity, a new planet/star or solar system in the sky, Purges, lawlessness, literal demons running amok, etc... - all within a few years?

Add to the trauma of seeing 2/3 of the world die, the end of the world as you know it, the possibility of being "left behind" if you are a rapture believer, and the psychological and spiritual stress of everything.

Then, enter this "superentity" that not only promises to fix everything - but actually does! This entity will be accepted immediately by most everyone simply on the premise that it "restored" everything back: "how could this not be god?"

Even Christians will have to "shake their head" to realize this entity is a fake - for understandable reason.

So, though the mark is more or less understandable, this entity pushing his mark will exploit his wonders, lies and comparison to Christ in order to deceive people will be enigmatic.

 

[Major1]

Right. I categorically do not believe in a rapture. At all. I spent a decade following preachers and pastors who believed this, only to then see them change their position after their own research - which led me to do my own research without other humans/pastor/ministers.

I still come to the same conclusion that there is no rapture.




Explaining the neurological anatomical implications of the brain as it pertains to the Greek word "charagma" - which is a sign, or branding. It is simply science. The frontal lobe controls behavior, personality, and movement. This IS the spiritual part of your actions. Remember when Christ said, "...if you even look upon a woman, and list after her" you have committed adultery in your heart already?

If your behavior is evil, then your physical intentions are likely to follow. In other words, if you lust, chances are your PERSONALITY, BEHAVIOR AND CONTROL OF VOLUNTRY MOVEMENT will lead you to physically commit the act with your RIGHT (dominant) "hand".

This is a branding; how do you think spiritual entities know WHO to terrorize, and who to rewars?

Now, when this entity comes on the scene, it will use our branding to test our branding. Will we use our frontal lobe (forehead) to change our behavior, and give into the enemy? Will you choose to commit acts with your dominant hand that would substantiate this change?

Starvation and poverty are basic motivators for otherwise good people to do evil things, which is why thsee were mentioned with the mark in Revelation.

Nothing is being added; this mark business has been around since the beginning. The New Covenant itself is a marking (law of God on heart so that our behavior and actions are aligned with Him without the need for written word.)

What am I adding?

In love, I could say the same about you and the rapture. And, I mean that sincerely, not as a goad into argument.

But let me know what I am adding to the word of God.

Or, more precisely, what am I adding to the CANON? This has a lot more implications on the validity of statements.

As for the Rapture. You of course are see to believe it or reject it. I for one am a believer in the coming event.

I do not see that you are necessarily adding to the Scriptures. I am saying that your thinking may very well be valid, but I just do not find it in the Scriptures.

I find that men will TAKE A MARK. I understand that to be a literal mark and not something that is thought of or spiritual.

Matt. 15:19........
"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander."

The right hand does not sin. It is the whole body and mind that does as the thought comes from the mind and all the right hand does is do what it was told to do.