Australians could require four or five jabs to be considered ‘up to date’

[KCfromNC]

It looks like you just want to ignore the most basic medical ethics and human rights. That is, voluntary and informed consent without coercion, and bodily autonomy.

I can't help but notice that instead of explaining how your argument makes any sense, this is trying to deflect the topic to some imagined personal failing on my part. That's not a good sign that the original claims had any substance to them.

Joe Biden said that vaccinated people will not get infected with covid, and that implies that they will not spread covid (unless you believe that someone can spread a disease that they don't have):

"you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations"

A single phrase taken out of context which we're supposed to draw additional inferences from to hopefully lead to the conclusion the chart is pushing seems like quite a stretch. I can only assume that means there's no better support for the claim in the chart.

Given he also said this in the the posted link :

If you’re vaccinated, even if you do catch the “virus,” ... If you do, you’re not likely to get sick. You’re probably going to be symptomless. You’re not going to be in a position where you — where your life is in danger.​

It is pretty obvious that he was talking probability rather than absolutes.

But in any case, shouldn't the chart be amended to mention that it is only talking about claims made by politicians rather than medical experts?

 

[trunks2k]

President Biden didn't say this. He said ...

"There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

That, and any claims about the vaccine being near bullet proof weren't far off.... for the alpha variant. Delta and Omicron are a different story. Still very effective, but not nearly as good as for the alpha variant.

 

[wing2000]

No one can guarantee that this virus, nor any other virus, will not mutate requiring new vaccines.

How is that a 'stupid question'? This whole thing started with 'two weeks to slow the spread'. Two years later, and you're saying people are 'stupid' for asking when it will end?

In Canada their progression was:
1. Two weeks to slow the spread
2. No jab no job
3. Bank account frozen if you protest

Many things that started off being labelled as a 'conspiracy theory' are now reality. From that point of view, it looks very much like we are in the 'totalitarian tiptoe', a million tiny steps to remove all rights and freedoms.

 

[trophy33]

President Biden didn't say this. He said ...

"There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

Which is also not true. Vaccinated people have been hospitalized, on IC units and dying.

All the main political leaders in the world were selling various untruths and half truths mixed with some scientific truths here or there, to public.

The separation of society is their fault. If they were telling the hard truths (or simply saying "we do not know yet") instead of chasing political points, it would be much better from the beginning.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

President Biden didn't say this. He said ...

"There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

It's right there in the whitehouse URL, on record! Why didn't you read the URL target? All you have to do is click the link and search for 'get covid'.

And in any case, all the other stuff he said ...

"you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die"

... was also misinformation.

I can't help but notice that instead of explaining how your argument makes any sense, you're trying to deflect the topic to some imagined personal failing on my part. That's not a good sign.

Do you or do you not support the medical ethics and human rights I described?

A single phrase taken out of context which we're supposed to draw additional inferences from seems like quite a stretch. I can only assume that means there's no better support for the claim in the chart.

Ahhh. The old 'taken out of context' defence.

Given he also said this in the same conference :

If you’re vaccinated, even if you do catch the “virus,” ... If you do, you’re not likely to get sick. You’re probably going to be symptomless. You’re not going to be in a position where you — where your life is in danger.
It is pretty obvious that he was talking probability rather than absolutes.

But in any case, shouldn't the chart be amended to mention that it is only talking about claims made by politicians rather than medical experts?

So Joe Biden was pushing multiple different lines that were incoherent with each other. That makes perfect sense.

That, and any claims about the vaccine being near bullet proof weren't far off.... for the alpha variant. Delta and Omicron are a different story. Still very effective, but not nearly as good as for the alpha variant.

Right, so they're pushing a vaccine for Omicron that they know wasn't designed for Omicron, and data shows doesn't work very well for Omicron. If they really were experts, they should have envisaged this, knowing that this type of virus mutates rapidly. One of these 'safe and effective' vaccinations just killed a three year old Argentinian girl, but I'm sure pro-vaxxers think it was all worth it.

No one can guarantee that this virus, nor any other virus, will not mutate requiring new vaccines.

Sounds like something else that the CDC and FDA 'experts' weren't aware of.

To the rest of us amateurs it was fairly obvious. There had never been a successful vaccine for the common cold (another coronavirus), but we're expected to believe that within a window of about one month, multiple pharma corporations suddenly made a huge breakthrough.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

President Biden didn't say this. He said ...

"There’s a simple, basic proposition: If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in an ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

Yes, Biden did indeed say exactly this:

"During a July 2021 CNN town hall, U.S. President Joe Biden falsely stated that "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," and "If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

Remarks by President Biden in a CNN Town Hall with Don Lemon | The White House

 

[A_Thinker]

One of these 'safe and effective' vaccinations just killed a three year old Argentinian girl, but I'm sure pro-vaxxers think it was all worth it.

Not being vaccinated has killed millions worldwide, and hundreds of thousands of Americans ...

 

[7thKeeper]

Children have a higher chance of dying from the vaccine than from covid.

How is it not obvious to everyone, these mandates are about money and control?

Sauce or redact?

 

[7thKeeper]

Oh, ... the horror ...

This thread requires some Jeremy Clarkson.

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Sauce or redact?

Will tomato do? It's all I've got at the moment.

 

[7thKeeper]

Will tomato do? It's all I've got at the moment.

Del Monte!? How dare you, sir!?

You need to get Classico, then we can talk.

 

[KCfromNC]

Do you or do you not support the medical ethics and human rights I described?

The medical ethics of ignoring childhood diseases if they're not 100% guaranteed to be fatal? No, I wouldn't be a big fan of that. I figure that if we have safe and effective ways to prevent kids from getting sick we should take advantage of them.

So Joe Biden was pushing multiple different lines that were incoherent with each other. That makes perfect sense.

If that's what you got from the interview, I'm not even sure where I can begin to help.

 

[KCfromNC]

Yes, Biden did indeed say exactly this:

"During a July 2021 CNN town hall, U.S. President Joe Biden falsely stated that "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," and "If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the ICU unit, and you’re not going to die."

Remarks by President Biden in a CNN Town Hall with Don Lemon | The White House

Care to tell us what he said just before the second quote?

 

[Tanj]

.
And is anyone really surprised that someone who created a computer OS that continually requires updates, is one of the architects of a tyrannical system that requires continual vaccination in order to remain 'up to date'?

But Steve Jobs died years before the pandemic started. Wow, thats some serious long term tyranny, right there.

 

[Bradskii]

To the rest of us amateurs....

That's the only part of your post that I agreed with.

 

[Tanj]

To the rest of us amateurs it was fairly obvious. There had never been a successful vaccine for the common cold (another coronavirus)

When did the Rhinoviruses get moved into the Coronaviridae? I missed that memo.

 

[whatbogsends]

I'm curious how accurate this chart actually is. Can you provide a quote of medical professionals from Feb 2021 saying that it was 100% guaranteed that vaccinated individuals could never possibly spread covid?

I know the second claim is a falsehood, per this bit of reporting from "A year ago" : The good and the (potentially) bad: What scientists know about variants and Covid-19 vaccines

But not even being able to get past the second line without a falsehood doesn't really inspire much confidence that this table is in any way related to reality. Credibility is hard to gain, and easy to lose.

How about CDC Director Walensky in March 2021.

@ ~1:36 “Vaccinated people do not carry the virus and don’t get sick”

 

[Bradskii]

How about CDC Director Walensky in March 2021.

@ ~1:36 “Vaccinated people do not carry the virus and don’t get sick”

Please use the full quote:

'Our data from the CDC suggests that people do not carry the virus don't get sick...'

That was what the data from that time suggested - as she said. That's what medical advice has been based on all along - the current data at the time it is given. When more data was obtained, the recommendations changed. And Walensky issued this press release 4 months later:

'Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.' CDC Newsroom

So the information that any medical expert gives you is current for the time it is given and based on the data available at that time. You knew that anyway. But it needs pointing out because I think you want people to ignore that basic scientific fact.

 

[whatbogsends]

Please use the full quote:

'Our data from the CDC suggests that people do not carry the virus don't get sick...'

That was what the data from that time suggested - as she said. That's what medical advice has been based on all along - the current data at the time it is given. When more data was obtained, the recommendations changed. And Walensky issued this press release 4 months later:

'Today, some of those data were published in CDC’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR), demonstrating that Delta infection resulted in similarly high SARS-CoV-2 viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus. This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation. The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.' CDC Newsroom

So the information that any medical expert gives you is current for the time it is given and based on the data available at that time. You knew that anyway. But it needs pointing out because I think you want people to ignore that basic scientific fact.

It was clear at the time that "breakthroughs" were happening.

Patient 1 was a healthy 51-year-old woman with no risk factors for severe Covid-19 who received the first dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine on January 21, 2021, and the second dose on February 19. She had adhered strictly to routine precautions. Ten hours after she received the second vaccine dose, flulike muscle aches developed. These symptoms resolved the following day. On March 10 (19 days after she received the second vaccine dose), a sore throat, congestion, and headache developed, and she tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 RNA at Rockefeller University later that day. On March 11, she lost her sense of smell. Her symptoms gradually resolved over a 1-week period.

Patient 2 was a healthy 65-year-old woman with no risk factors for severe Covid-19 who received the first dose of BNT162b2 vaccine on January 19 and the second dose on February 9. Pain that developed in the inoculated arm lasted for 2 days. On March 3, her unvaccinated partner tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, and on March 16, fatigue, sinus congestion, and a headache developed in Patient 2. On March 17, she felt worse and tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 RNA, 36 days after completing vaccination. Her symptoms plateaued and began to resolve on March 20.

Clinical characterization and Genomic analysis of COVID-19 breakthrough infections during second wave in different states of India.

By the end of April, the CDC had over 10,000 reported breakthrough infections and knew that there were many more.

A total of 10,262 SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections had been reported from 46 U.S. states and territories as of April 30, 2021
...
The findings in this report are subject to at least two limitations. First, the number of reported COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough cases is likely a substantial undercount of all SARS-CoV-2 infections among fully vaccinated persons. The national surveillance system relies on passive and voluntary reporting, and data might not be complete or representative. Many persons with vaccine breakthrough infections, especially those who are asymptomatic or who experience mild illness, might not seek testing. Second, SARS-CoV-2 sequence data are available for only a small proportion of the reported cases.

COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Infections Reported to CDC ...

Even after this, was clear (May 16, 2021) NIH head Dr. Anthony Fauci said this:

@3:30

JOHN DICKERSON: So, if- if a person is deciding whether or not to get vaccinated, they have to keep in mind whether it's going to keep them healthy. But based on these new findings, it would suggest they also have an opportunity, if vaccinated, to knock off or block their ability to transmit it to other people. So, does it increase the public health good of getting the vaccination or make that clearer based on these new findings?

DR. FAUCI: And you know, JOHN, you said it very well. I could have said it better. It's absolutely the case. And that's the reason why we say when you get vaccinated, you not only protect your own health, that of the family, but also you contribute to the community health by preventing the spread of the virus throughout the community. And in other words, you become a dead end to the virus. And when there are a lot of dead ends around, the virus is not going to go anywhere. And that's when you get a point that you have a markedly diminished rate of infection in the community. And that's exactly the reason, and you said it very well, of why we encourage people and want people to get vaccinated. The more people you get vaccinated, the safer the entire community is.

At no point were the vaccinated "dead ends". They misrepresented the science.

That they later capitulated when presented with overwhelming evidence contradicting their narrative doesn't excuse them on the lies they pushed.

 

[Bradskii]

By the end of April, the CDC had over 10,000 reported breakthrough infections and knew that there were many more.

You seem determined in confirming what I just told you. Keep it up!