Australia votes Yes for same-sex “marriage”

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marineimaging

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No, that's not what I believe. But I don't believe that God punishes nations for bad laws. I do believe God allows us to live with the natural consequences of our bad laws.

By the way, your posts would be much easier to read if you broke the sentences up a bit.



People have been saying that it's the last days since New Testament times. I take all such claims with a grain of salt; no one knows the day or the hour. I also have enough of a historical perspective to realise that our current society isn't necessarily more evil than any other time up until now.
Israel was not a nation state as they are today. There were many prophesies that were not met in those days, which are today.
 
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The Times

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Constitutionally Australia embraces religious pluralism. The Christian Church does not make the laws of the land.

Marriage for (most) Christians is a sacrament of the love God has for his Church, however it as at the same time a social contract acknowledged ubder the law of the land.

The Church in so far as it operates inside the law of the land is required not to ignore marriages conducted outside its norms however is not required to reunderstand marriage within its own community of faith.

God is not bound by human law, neither does God need to affirm his rights and copyright under human law.

Which contract came first?, the land or God's from the very moment he declared marriage as his very own institution, under his Created Rights Laws, from the instant he created them male and female, in the Genesis 1:27-28 account?

So, now all of a sudden man wants to amend God's contract and assume authority over the legality of marriage, when man does not have authority to stray from that contract, which is tied to humanities very existence, owing to God placing his Image, that is his LOGO, to seal that contract, which is enforceable on water, under the water, on land and in the cosmos.

What mind would try to dare change the terms, when no land was there at creation to be party to any mutually agreeable change to the original contract that God dictated upon all of humanity.

To change a contract, one must be party to it, as an equal, in mutual agreement or disagreement and as a result coming to reconciliation, through amending the contract, with the intended purpose to come to a mutual agreement.

In the Genesis account, there is no other human party and no mutual agreement involving humans, to make amendment of what is unchangable under the original contract, that only the Trinity was party to. Since that contract was witnessed by two, as in "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness" (Genesis 1:26)

To put in place Marriage Laws of the land in these recent years, that are contrary to the original contract, would be in breach of the original contract and the land that makes such an illegal and none binding contract, is a land like Sodom and Gomorrah, that must come under judgement, where God's right is to destroy to it, to its very end.

In this regard, the land, regardless of what land it is, has become Sodom and in this respect, is now in breach of the original contract and has become a lawless terrorist state, harbouring enemies that pirate and steal from God. Stealing from God what is clearly declared as being God's proprietary owned intellectual property that had been witnessed by two other co-equal members of the Trinity, as a binding ratified contract that is unrevocable and is unalterable by human parties, regardless of what land laws have to say.

Prophesying Christians ought to know what they are doing, when supporting the amendment of the laws of the land that come into direct conflict and breach of the original contract tied to the creation of humanity. In fact such argument to make the law of the land mutually coequal to the Trinity's contract, is an act of defiance and will be considered by God as a treasonous act and you can take this statement to the bank.

Back the law of the land and you are batting against the Trinity.

Good luck with that! Because you know what is coming.

Someone mockingly said, well, "the sky hasn't fallen", and I say YET!

But if people want to bat against the Trinity, then their choice will become the outcome of their eternal security. Yet to teach others to go against the Created Rights Laws of God, that were ratified by the Trinity, is something unheard of!
 
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marineimaging

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It’s indeed a sad day for Australia in that 61 percent of Australians have now voted to allow same-sex “marriage”. As 69.5 percent of the population voted in this non-compulsory plebiscite it means that the vast majority of Australians have failed to support the institution of the family.
Have you ever had something bug you and you can't quite figure it out. Well, someone said that humans have been saying it was the end of times since the beginning of times. But what they did not have that we do have is that every land has been populated now. Governments have been set up where there were no governments before. Israel has become a nation state unlike ever before. We have arrived at that time and place in the Bible where Revelations prophesies can be carried out today, and justice would know that all the conditions have been met where as they were not before.
 
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Paidiske

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Let's be honest with ourselves here. Australian secular marriage law hasn't reflected God's plan for marriage for ... well... as long as there's been Australian secular marriage law.

God's plan doesn't permit divorce; we have divorce (and, I might add, for very good reasons, from a secular point of view). God's plan doesn't set a minimum age, specify ceremonies, "notice of intent," doesn't make mention of issues of free consent (necessary for a secular marriage to be legal). God's plan doesn't need a celebrant to make it all formal or witnesses.

What we have are two entirely separate things; a Christian ideal of marriage, to which Christians can aspire to conform. And a secular legal framework for marriage, which is not defined by the Christian ideal. We shouldn't confuse the two.

Christians can, and should, desire to enter and live within marriage in keeping with God's will. But we're kidding ourselves if we think secular marriage law has anything to do with that. It doesn't and it never really has.
 
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marineimaging

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Let's be honest with ourselves here. Australian secular marriage law hasn't reflected God's plan for marriage for ... well... as long as there's been Australian secular marriage law.

God's plan doesn't permit divorce; we have divorce (and, I might add, for very good reasons, from a secular point of view). God's plan doesn't set a minimum age, specify ceremonies, "notice of intent," doesn't make mention of issues of free consent (necessary for a secular marriage to be legal). God's plan doesn't need a celebrant to make it all formal or witnesses.

What we have are two entirely separate things; a Christian ideal of marriage, to which Christians can aspire to conform. And a secular legal framework for marriage, which is not defined by the Christian ideal. We shouldn't confuse the two.

Christians can, and should, desire to enter and live within marriage in keeping with God's will. But we're kidding ourselves if we think secular marriage law has anything to do with that. It doesn't and it never really has.
I can't tell which you are defending, but I don't hear a man lying with a man as a woman is an abomination or that a woman lying with a woman as with a man is an abomination in there. So marriage notwithstanding, the wedding night is going to be an abomination to God no matter which side of the issue we are on.
 
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Philip_B

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Which contract came first?, the land or God's from the very moment he declared marriage as his very own institution, under his Created Rights Laws, from the instant he created them male and female, in the Genesis 1:27-28 account?

So, now all of a sudden man wants to amend God's contract and assume authority over the legality of marriage, when man does not have authority to stray from that contract, which is tied to humanities very existence, owing to God placing his Image, that is his LOGO, to seal that contract, which is enforceable on water, under the water, on land and in the cosmos.

What mind would try to dare change the terms, when no land was there at creation to be party to any mutually agreeable change to the original contract that God dictated upon all of humanity.

To change a contract, one must be party to it, as an equal, in mutual agreement or disagreement and as a result coming to reconciliation, through amending the contract, with the intended purpose to come to a mutual agreement.

In the Genesis account, there is no other human party and no mutual agreement involving humans, to make amendment of what is unchangable under the original contract, that only the Trinity was party to. Since that contract was witnessed by two, as in "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness" (Genesis 1:26)

To put in place Marriage Laws of the land in these recent years, that are contrary to the original contract, would be in breach of the original contract and the land that makes such an illegal and none binding contract, is a land like Sodom and Gomorrah, that must come under judgement, where God's right is to destroy to it, to its very end.

In this regard, the land, regardless of what land it is, has become Sodom and in this respect, is now in breach of the original contract and has become a lawless terrorist state, harbouring enemies that pirate and steal from God. Stealing from God what is clearly declared as being God's proprietary owned intellectual property that had been witnessed by two other co-equal members of the Trinity, as a binding ratified contract that is unrevocable and is unalterable by human parties, regardless of what land laws have to say.

Prophesying Christians ought to know what they are doing, when supporting the amendment of the laws of the land that come into direct conflict and breach of the original contract tied to the creation of humanity. In fact such argument to make the law of the land mutually coequal to the Trinity's contract, is an act of defiance and will be considered by God as a treasonous act and you can take this statement to the bank.

Back the law of the land and you are batting against the Trinity.

Good luck with that! Because you know what is coming.

Someone mockingly said, well, "the sky hasn't fallen", and I say YET!

But if people want to bat against the Trinity, then their choice will become the outcome of their eternal security. Yet to teach others to go against the Created Rights Laws of God, that were ratified by the Trinity, is something unheard of!
I find it really odd to exegete creation as a contract. I do not stand opposed to the Holy Trinity. Marriage is clearly expressed in the Genesis account of creation yet despite the universal practice of pairing it has been expresed in many ways. In the modern world almost exclusively as a romantic endeavour yet any study of medieval europe will demonstrate som very unromantic notions of marriage - such as Arthur and Catherine betrothed when she was 2. I think the Churches witness should not be one of protest so much as example. You don't need to agree with single gender matrimony however in a democratic society we are expected to accept the will of the people as regards the ordering of that society.
 
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Paidiske

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I can't tell which you are defending, but I don't hear a man lying with a man as a woman is an abomination or that a woman lying with a woman as with a man is an abomination in there. So marriage notwithstanding, the wedding night is going to be an abomination to God no matter which side of the issue we are on.

What I'm trying to argue is that we need to separate secular (legal) marriage from Christian ideals of marriage.

Secular marriage may allow all sorts of things that God wouldn't condone; well, secular governments do all sorts of things God wouldn't condone. Why this should be the one we get our knickers in a knot eludes me; I'm much more horrified by our concentration camps for refugees and our propensity to go to war.

But my point is that it's not as if we had "Christian marriage" as the legal model right up until same-sex marriage was allowed. We didn't, and we never really have. Christians need to make peace with the fact that we live in a society that isn't Christian.
 
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SilverBear

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Do you condone people pirating software?

Do you condone people taking proprietary owned intellectual property and rebaging it as their own and with their own LOGO, for their own intended benefit?

Do you condone people using proprietary owned intellectual property, for uses other than the prescribed and intended usage, under the terms of sale agreement?


I am sure, you being a fair and honest person would say....

Off course NOT, Right? I don't condone any of those acts, because they are an infringement on the copyright laws and is a Crime to do so.
Actually no, I would be asking what you are babbling on about.

Now, let me put God's case forward to you.......

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:27-28)

God has put his claim of ownership on all of humanity and has placed his Image OF OWNERSHIP, that is his LOGO, designating it as his intellectual property.

So immediately the case for God is, that humanity falls under his proprietary ownership and is therefore under His Created Rights and the prescribed intended usage, under His Created Rights Law.

Since, you being fair, honest and sincere answered No, to people infringing copyright laws, then I am sure that you wouldn't infringe on God's Created Rights Law and to teach others to also do likewise?
being fair and honest i would remind you I answered nothing of the sort.

The dilemna people face who support same sex marriage is inconceivable to them and the mere illogical reasoning you gave in your reply is untenable as it begs belief.

Same sex marriage is Piracy and Piracy is a CRIME!

Do you understand?
Are you a law abiding citizen within God's Creation?
I understand that if i had a time machine and went back 50 or so years i could hear exactly the same thing form those who just know that God opposes interracial marriage.
 
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SilverBear

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He who mocks God, will be judged for their defiance against him, by their act to willingly break his Created Rights Laws and to teach others to do so likewise.

The younger generation, need to know the truth and reject the lies being concocted by those who support Piracy and the outright theft of God's property.

Therefore the Lord, the LORD Almighty, the Mighty One of Israel, declares: "Ah! I will vent my wrath on my foes and avenge myself on my enemies. (Isaiah 1:24)

Friend, stop and discern, do you really find that the infringement of God's Created Rights Laws is funny?
so are you now saying that your quoting of Matthew was wrong and those who don't marry won't be judged harshly?
 
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Arcangl86

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Do you condone people pirating software?

Do you condone people taking proprietary owned intellectual property and rebaging it as their own and with their own LOGO, for their own intended benefit?

Do you condone people using proprietary owned intellectual property, for uses other than the prescribed and intended usage, under the terms of sale agreement?


I am sure, you being a fair and honest person would say....

Off course NOT, Right? I don't condone any of those acts, because they are an infringement on the copyright laws and is a Crime to do so.

Now, let me put God's case forward to you.......

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:27-28)

God has put his claim of ownership on all of humanity and has placed his Image OF OWNERSHIP, that is his LOGO, designating it as his intellectual property.

So immediately the case for God is, that humanity falls under his proprietary ownership and is therefore under His Created Rights and the prescribed intended usage, under His Created Rights Law.

Since, you being fair, honest and sincere answered No, to people infringing copyright laws, then I am sure that you wouldn't infringe on God's Created Rights Law and to teach others to also do likewise?

The dilemna people face who support same sex marriage is inconceivable to them and the mere illogical reasoning you gave in your reply is untenable as it begs belief.

Same sex marriage is Piracy and Piracy is a CRIME!

Do you understand?
Are you a law abiding citizen within God's Creation?
This has to be the most bizarre argument against ssm that I ever heard of.
 
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SilverBear

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I can't tell which you are defending, but I don't hear a man lying with a man as a woman is an abomination or that a woman lying with a woman as with a man is an abomination in there. So marriage notwithstanding, the wedding night is going to be an abomination to God no matter which side of the issue we are on.
just like serving Shrimp cocktail at the wedding reception would make it an abomination.
 
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marineimaging

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What I'm trying to argue is that we need to separate secular (legal) marriage from Christian ideals of marriage.

Secular marriage may allow all sorts of things that God wouldn't condone; well, secular governments do all sorts of things God wouldn't condone. Why this should be the one we get our knickers in a knot eludes me; I'm much more horrified by our concentration camps for refugees and our propensity to go to war.

But my point is that it's not as if we had "Christian marriage" as the legal model right up until same-sex marriage was allowed. We didn't, and we never really have. Christians need to make peace with the fact that we live in a society that isn't Christian.
Oh, I totally agree. I don't know about Australia but the day we allowed a marriage to be anything other than "HOLY matrimony" is the day we started down a path we will never come back from. The day Adam and Eve were cast from the garden we began a downward spiral that we can never recover from, at least as a people and under the conditions of living as a human in a secular world. I am torn between letting that which we cannot change be what it is and focus on my own spiritual battles with evil and fighting a battle we were warned was coming. Maybe it is enough that I don't do it myself and let the rest be.
 
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The Times

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I find it really odd to exegete creation as a contract. I do not stand opposed to the Holy Trinity. Marriage is clearly expressed in the Genesis account of creation yet despite the universal practice of pairing it has been expresed in many ways. In the modern world almost exclusively as a romantic endeavour yet any study of medieval europe will demonstrate som very unromantic notions of marriage - such as Arthur and Catherine betrothed when she was 2. I think the Churches witness should not be one of protest so much as example. You don't need to agree with single gender matrimony however in a democratic society we are expected to accept the will of the people as regards the ordering of that society.

I accept the will of God in my life and in his creation.

You say....

"Marriage is clearly expressed in the Genesis account of creation yet despite the universal practice of pairing it has been expresed in many ways."

Do you acknowledge, that you are not in agreement with Jesus......

Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?6So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6)

If you acknowledge that you are not in agreement with Jesus, I can accept your sincerity in this regard, otherwise you are not being honest with me friend.

You stated.....

"however in a democratic society we are expected to accept the will of the people as regards the ordering of that society."

I say, that Germany before and during WW2 was a democratic country and they made laws against Jewery. Did that mean that God fearing Christian Catholics would accept the will of the people and to embrace the Holocaust?

Absolutely Not! Some Catholics took in Jews and protected them from the ordering of that fallen society to call for the extermination of the Jews.

By the same token, do God fearing Christians from all denominations need to accept the will of the people, from the ordering of that unbecoming fallen society to accept the Holocaust against the Trinity's Created Rights Law Contract of marriage, according to how Jesus spelled it out and with reference to Genesis 1-26-28?

Absolutely NOT!

You sir, need to acknowledge that you reject the ratified contract of marriage, authored by the Trinity, between a male and female from when humanity was created, requiring all of humanity to conform to the Image of God, the proprietary owner of humanity, witnessed and ratified by the Trinity, when it was said.......

"Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness"

Do you acknowledge that you reject the ratified contract of marriage, that is authored by the Trinity at the Creation of humanity, from the beginning of Creation?

Please do answer the way Jesus would have you to answer, when all will come before his feet, after they biologically die, to be judged worthy to continue to be in his Holy presence.
 
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Paidiske

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I just don't see the point in trying to force the world to be Christian. We know we can't do that. We have a mission, as a church, and we should focus on that; and let the rest be.

Or at least, that's my take on it.
 
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The Times

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This has to be the most bizarre argument against ssm that I ever heard of.

bizzare to you only friend, because it does require one to be sincere and honest with themselves, to at the very least, to inquire who owns humanity and why and for what purpose God created humanity.

26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; (Genesis 1:26-28)

If you can muster your courage and strength to say that you disagree with Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6, then it would at the very least free you, to atleast know where you stand with Jesus.

I know where I stand, do you?
 
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marineimaging

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just like serving Shrimp cocktail at the wedding reception would make it an abomination.
I think making a joke of what God considers an abomination is an abomination.
 
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Arcangl86

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Just a small correction regarding the facts. 61% of Australians did not vote for same-sex marriage. 61% of those who voted came down on the side of same-sex marriage. That means that of all Australian only 48% voted for same-sex marriage so in fact the plebiscite was lost.
Just a small correction regarding your correction. This wasn't a plebiscite. It was a non-binding survey. And based on your logic, only 30% of all Australians indicated they wanted the law to stay the same.
 
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Philip_B

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Do you acknowledge that you reject the ratified contract of marriage, that is authored by the Trinity at the Creation of humanity, from the beginning of Creation?

Please do answer the way Jesus would have you to answer, when all will come before his feet, after they biologically die, to be judged worthy to continue to be in his Holy presence.
Effectively you are deliberately misconstruing what I have said. The only thing I will say before the throne of grace is 'I am not worthy', and we can but wonder what Jesus will draw with his finger in the sand.

Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner

I understand the Eastern Orthodox traditions, for which I have great affection, are change averse, and specifically keen to understand the role of the Church as guardian of the sacred deposit of faith, and in no way does supporting the democratic right of the Australian people to make decisions about the laws regarding the people of Australia impinge on the rights duties and functions of the Church in its role, and indeed the Australian Constitution guards against that from happening.

Our Christian Faith, the duty and service we offer is free and unimpeded - and in Australia Christian life is not compulsory.

I am sure I do not need to remind you that many brutal and uncharitable things have been done to people with same sex attraction which have told the world nothing of the love God has for his people.

Peace and Good things my friend.
There is more that binds us together than tears us apart.
 
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The Times

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Actually no, I would be asking what you are babbling on about.

Are you saying that you condone Piracy and the infringement of copyright laws? Yes/No

Are you saying that you condone Piracy and the infringement of the Trinity's Created Right Laws? Yes/No

being fair and honest i would remind you I answered nothing of the sort.

Offcourse you didn't! Yet, I just assumed out of the goodness of my heart that you, being honest and sincere, would answer no to Piracy and the infringement of the Trinity's Created Right Laws.

same sex marriage infringes on God's Created Rights Law!

same sex marriage is nothing less than Piracy and Piracy is theft and theft is a Crime!

I understand that if i had a time machine and went back 50 or so years i could hear exactly the same thing form those who just know that God opposes interracial marriage.

This line of reasoning is dismissed, because it is irrelavant to what is being asked of you, to give an answer to.

If you had a time machine, you need to go back to when this Created Rights statement was made by the Trinity. Two coequal witnesses to the LOGOS, who uttered the following words....

26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number. (Genesis 1:26-28)

Now, since humanity wasn't there to revoke or to contend with the contractual agreement made between the three coequal members of the Trinity, then humanity and their laws of the land CANNOT revoke this Holy Contract.

Doing so, is in wilful violation of the Trinity's Sovereign Will and is also a breach of his Laws in Totality and an infringement of His Created Rights Image.

How does one plead on the Day of Judgement when they have such an astronomical FALLING OUT with the Trinity?
 
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I think making a joke of what God considers an abomination is an abomination.

You are correct brother in Christ.

We are only players in this Game of Life. God's Will, will be, for He is the Umpire/Referee to this game of Life and anyone who does not take this game of Life seriously has become disillusioned.

Disillusionment works in people who have the concerns of the flesh and are therefore governed by the mind of flesh.


5Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires.6The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:5-9)

I say let God's Will prevail in my life and your life and let it be executed through his loyal witnesses, who know their God and who consider themselves dead to the world. This world operates by a mind governed by flesh.
 
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