Australia votes Yes for same-sex “marriage”

[The Times]

Jesus will win this war, even to the very graves of the reprobates in the last days .

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9)

 

[Zoii]

Jesus will win this war, even to the very graves of the reprobates in the last days .

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9)

Nothing so calamitous. Just people getting on with their lives in Australia. Since passing the SSM the sky hasn't fallen and we are all doing fine.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Nothing so calamitous. Just people getting on with their lives in Australia. Since passing the SSM the sky hasn't fallen and we are all doing fine.

Yes, we are all doing fine and the sky isn't falling. The fact that homosexual couples now have marriage equality in Australia and in other countries has no impact whatsoever on the personal faith or lives of Christians. As far as I'm aware, Christians aren't being forced to marry someone of the same sex. If some Christians don't like the fact that homosexuals now have the same equality in marriage as hetereosexual couples have enjoyed for centuries, then that's their problem and they should learn how to keep that problem to themselves. It's honestly no concern of theirs.

As a veteran (meaning long term) Native American social justice and political activist, I won't just stand idly by and allow homosexuals and other LGBT people to be discriminated against by Christians or any other religious people and not speak up against it. I'm all too familiar with racial and religious discrimination and I won't tolerate either one anymore. I can't, in good conscience, stand by and doing nothing, not after what I have witnessed and experienced during my own lifetime.

One last thought, I would like to share the words of Native American political prisoner, Leonard Peltier: "The injustice you allow against others will become injustice that comes against you."

This was also well supported by some Christian groups and by the Bishop in my state.

I commend them for their courage to stand up for equality and civil rights.

 

[Zoii]

But for someone else to declare that these Christians aren't real Christians is skidding very close to the edge of this site rule: Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed - Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules

Who stated or implied that these christian groups weren't real Christians?? Certainly not me. I was stating fact to correct the perception stated that "No Christian will support this ideology and a moron of statements. These people are lost fighting against Jesus and trying to overturn the ways and the Laws of God." because indeed some Christians do support SSM

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Who stated or implied that these christian groups weren't real Christians?? Certainly not me. I was stating fact to correct the perception stated that "No Christian will support this ideology and a moron of statements. These people are lost fighting against Jesus and trying to overturn the ways and the Laws of God." because indeed some Christians do support SSM

I wasn't referring to you and I edited my post while you were responding to it. I thought of quoting that specific site rule on flaming but then changed my mind afterward and edited my post.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

You already said all this. Its time to move on because the law is already passed and its not going to go back to the way it was.

And thank goodness that it won't go back to the way it was. Homosexuals do not deserve to be discriminated against and denied marriage equality for being gay or for any other reason.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Speaking of Harry Potter... If reading his books has taught me anything is that no one should have to live a closet. I always love to hear about Harry Potter too, even if it was meant to be an insult.

 

[The Times]

Those who promote witchcraft on Christian Forums should not be discriminated against, right?

Those who promote strange flesh sex on Christian Forums should not be discriminated against, right?

But has anyone realised that the discrimination and the offence to God given and authored institution of marriage and Christianity, is the in your face forcefull pushing of witchcraft and strange flesh sex.

I don't accept it, I find it offensive and discriminatory, so please go away!

 

[The Times]

"No one should live in the closet?"

I see......hmmmmm.......

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: (IN THE CLOSET) only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

I'm not going anywhere. I have just as much right to post in this thread as the next Christian member. I'm not violating any site rules by discussing homosexuality from a political, legal, historical, and civil rights point of view. And for the record, I don't practice witchcraft just because I read Harry Potter anymore than the Christians who read The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia are practicing witchcraft or have turned into wizards or elves by reading these book series.

 

[The Times]

You promote it, irrespective of what you believe.

 

[Philip_B]

If people have interaction with a friend or family member who the same-sex marriage debate directly affects, their attitude shifts very quickly.​

I think that the crucial issue here is that we are dealing with people. Human Beings made in the image and after the likeness of God. The data suggests that the biggest reason why people supported the Marriage Equality National Postal Survey was because they wanted to support people they felt were denied justice. The biggest reason why people voted against was based on fear engendered by a campaign that suggested that there was another agenda. In short they did not vote against the Church, but for people.

It may be a result of our convict past, however some of the basic Australian principles include what we call 'a fair go' (which in academic journals may be described as an innate awareness of social justice in many forms), and 'look after your mates'. In the Australian Campaign the matter was largely seen as a social justice issue, and not a moral issue.

Senator Dean Smith in moving the legislation in the upper house of the Australian Parliament said

"Yesterday, we saw a glimpse of the country that we all yearn for — a country that is fair-minded, generous and accepting.

We saw a country that was willing to embrace its hopes rather than hold on to its fears."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-16/full-text-dean-smith-same-sex-marriage-bill-speech/9157270​

The Church in Australia does not have the upper hand, and was not meant to. We are not a specifically Christian Country, and equally we are not a specifically Secular Country. We have evolved as a religiously diverse (some might say ambivalent) pluralist democracy. We have a live and live approach to the matter of freedom in religion. There are limitations to that within the construct of our society, in that we do not permit (with some specific exceptions) polygamy, or even bigamy.

The challenge for us now is to live out our Christian Calling with a new reality in the wider context of our community.

 

[The Times]

I cannot go to a Harry Potter School and to promote Christianity, can I!

I cannot go to a Christian Forum and to label Christians as pathetic, prejudice and bigoted, who hold to the God given marriage institution between a man and a woman!

I can discuss the topic on Christian Forums, without actively promoting anything AGAINST Christianity and against the teachings of Jesus.

If Christians even dared to discuss a topic on sex with strange flesh within the sex with strange flesh crowd or forum, they would be pounced on like a pack of hyenas. We Christians are all too trusting, kind, accepting, and are taken advantage of by the rest of the world.

It is high time, we politely, yet firmly say to the sex with strange flesh people and to tell them to please go away and leave Christianity alone. We follow Jesus, you are free to go and to follow your own leader.

 

[The Times]

The challenge for us now is to live out our Christian Calling with a new reality in the wider context of our community.

Is this the answer you will give to Jesus, when you are brought before his feet?

Let me rephrase it as if you are talking with him.....

The challenge for your flock Jesus now, is they need to live out their Christian Calling with a new reality, no disrespect to you or what you taught, in the wider context of our community, not withstanding your gospel or what your Father instructed and authored as marriage.

So Jesus, you should be alright with that, right? Come on, give us "a fair go"!

I could only imagine what his response will be.

32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

I say to you friend, Oh Dear! what have you done.

Has Jesus been sold out in this last generation?

Like I said, it is time to choose, we are nearing the end of the Harvest.

 

[Jon Osterman]

When classing strange flesh paraphillia sex as equal to marriage, it is both offensive and discriminatory to the institution of marriage.

For Millennias marriage is declared and understood between a man and a woman. Any other forms of sex is not supported by the definition of marriage. Some people want to put a lie for the truth. I say get real!

People can do what they want, but please don't offend Jesus and to discriminate against his marriage institution. People are actually waging war against Jesus and they ought to know it.

There is no such thing as being safe in numbers, when it comes to God judging offenders, who forsake the covenant that God made with all of humanity, when he declared the institution of marriage.

One could say the same thing about non-Christians getting "married". If they are not married in God, their sexual union would be equally offensive. However, I don't think this is how one should view it. Non-Christians live thier lives without God and their marriages are not marriages in the biblical sense because God is not a part of them. Therefore, it doesn't really matter what they do.

I personally don't find same-sex marriage offensive at all. Why should I? It has nothing to do with me.

 

[Zoii]

If Christians even dared to discuss a topic on sex with strange flesh within the sex with strange flesh crowd or forum, they would be pounced on like a pack of hyenas. We Christians are all too trusting, kind, accepting, and are taken advantage of by the rest of the world.

It is high time, we politely, yet firmly say to the sex with strange flesh people and to tell them to please go away and leave Christianity alone. We follow Jesus, you are free to go and to follow your own leader.

Homosexuals are not a "strange flesh crowd". They are human beings and in this instance they are our fellow Australians. If you detest so much a significant cohort within the country then there's always Europe or USA to live in. But the overwhelming majority of Australians do not display the same emotions as you. Most quite frankly don't give a fig about someone's personal life and sexuality. I might add that those that are homosexual aren't focused on anyone's church and simply want to live a life with the same rights as anyone else. If you cannot live in Australia without providing the same human rights to all, then it is you that's out of step with Australian society. But you can have both - you can continue to be christian and you can also accord all Australians the respect, dignity and equality that all deserve. If you cant do that then I suggest you emigrate.

 

[Philip_B]

I say to you friend, Oh Dear! what have you done.

I have understood that we live in pluralist democracy, that we do not get everything our own way, and recognise that part of the price I pay for a freedom of religion, is that others have the freedom of religion and the freedom not to have a religion.

Has Jesus been sold out in this last generation?

I don't think so. We no longer burn people for having a sixth finger, nor hang them for their sexual orientation, nor allow a gay panic defence for assault, battery and murder. And we certainly do not execute people for the religious beliefs.

Like I said, it is time to choose.

I choose life in Christ, and to be a witness to his love and justice.

I accept that you are disappointed with the result of the National Postal Survey and the enactment of the legislation. I think the great test for those who don't like it, is to decide how to handle this result, positively and for the sake of the Gospel. Nothing has been broken in terms of the sacred deposit of the faith.

ArchBishop Glenn Davies (Anglican ArchBishop of Sydney) whose diocese contributed 1 million dollars to the no campaign also issued a press release after the result, in which he said.

We as Christians will continue to be strong in our belief of what God has given to us in His word. Our schools, our churches, our organisations will continue to reflect God's love in a world of diverse opinions - holding firm to what God has taught us in His word but generously, compassionately and graciously engaging with Australia where matters are in dispute. Where people consider God's word is not the authority, we must continue to witness to that authority in the way in which Jesus would do so - with love and grace but firmness and boldness and confidence in God's word for Australia today.

Statement from Archbishop Davies on the same-sex marriage result​

I think we need to be clear about what we are for, far more than what we are against.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

One could say the same thing about non-Christians getting "married". If they are not married in God, their sexual union would be equally offensive. However, I don't think this is how one should view it. Non-Christians live thier lives without God and their marriages are not marriages in the biblical sense because God is not a part of them. Therefore, it doesn't really matter what they do.

It should be noted that the marriage between one man and one woman isn't the only marriage sanctioned and permitted in the bible. There are eight different biblical marriages to be exact.

I personally don't find same-sex marriage offensive at all. Why should I? It has nothing to do with me.

Case in point - homosexual marriage has nothing to do with hetereosexual Christians. In other words, the marriage and love life of homosexuals is no concern of hetereosexual Christians. Marriage equality for homosexuals doesn't affect their life in any shape or form or stops them from being a Christian.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

Homosexuals are not a "strange flesh crowd". They are human beings and in this instance they are our fellow Australians. If you detest so much a significant cohort within the country then there's always Europe or USA to live in. But the overwhelming majority of Australians do not display the same emotions as you. Most quite frankly don't give a fig about someone's personal life and sexuality. I might add that those that are homosexual aren't focused on anyone's church and simply want to live a life with the same rights as anyone else. If you cannot live in Australia without providing the same human rights to all, then it is you that's out of step with Australian society. But you can have both - you can continue to be christian and you can also accord all Australians the respect, dignity and equality that all deserve. If you cant do that then I suggest you emigrate.

"Strange flesh crowd" is a further attempt to dehumanize homosexuals, in my opinion. I think it's not only a terrible Christian witness but I think it's pathetic and callous to categorize homosexuals with that term as if they were sub-human creatures, unworthy of human dignity and human rights. I will say that this kind of attitude toward LGBT is one of the reasons why I left evangelical Christianity.

 

[Sojourner1]

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[Truthfrees]

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