Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[Skavau]

I'm not seemingly anything. You should be well aware that I don't have a problem saying what I intend to say.

You just take some slight encouragement.

Okay. Then this is really simple stuff. They call it the comparative property.

If Skavau=atheist and atheist=liar in accordance with God's word, then Skavau =liar in accordance with God's word.

So what part am I lying about? My humanism or my atheism?

In any case, though I won't report you for it and I know I egged you on to do it. Calling people liars openly does violate the terms of conditions. You should probably be made aware of it before you get the confidence to call every atheist liars.

The Lake of Fire is what should come across as nightmarish to you.

It does indeed. As does the God who established it.

You're an atheist. Why would you believe there is a truth for something you don't think exists? For it to not be "God's truth" would mean that you think there is a God who has a truth.

Sort of. I recognise that the scripture exists but I don't think it divinely ordained. In any case, the notion of 'God's truth' is rightly alien to me. There is no such thing.

Because the word of God says otherwise.18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness Romans 1:18

Then the word of God as you understand it is at variance with reality and the existence of Muslims just proves it.

And I will reiterate, you don't have to anymore than Muslims believe that Jesus Christ is God. The result of not believeing His truth in both instances is the same: eternity in the Lake of Fire.

So then, you admit that fate has nothing to do with what I choose but what I believe. Thanks for clarifying.

What you know is that you heard God's truth and still choose to reject Him and thus CHOOSE to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

I have been given only literature and claims based on that literature. I don't believe that said literature is actually 'God's truth' and my rejection is based on my understanding which is necessarily not motivated by choice.

the only thing that I need to know about Islam to say that those who adhere to it will spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire is that they reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

So asides from having no morality at all, you are also a raving anti-intellectual who denies the utility of knowledge. Your ignorance of Islam amongst other things I am sure is what gives you the confidence to make overarching inaccurate statements about a massive percentage of the entire planet.

Here you go: Muslims CHOOSE to believe what they do and thus CHOOSE to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire. Just as you CHOOSE to believe what you do and in that rejection of Jesus Christ CHOOSE to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Belief is not a choice. You are simply wrong.

You rest in your logic. Logic isn't gonna keep you from spending eternity in the Lake of Fire.

If you deny the application of logic then you effectively deny cogency of any sort at all. Your argument might as well be in any order and in any method as it wouldn't be based on anything.

Nice to see though, that amongst all other things you're a solipsist as well.

Gosh I make no apologies for what a Holy God does. that would be laughable.

Instead you prefer to revel in his atrocities. Far worse.

And if what everyone else said does not align with what God says, what they say gets thrown out. And if that makes me evil, then I'd much rather be in God's presence by your definition of evil than be in the Lake of Fire with you under your definition of goodness or morality.

Wow.

I can't top that. It is as if any dictator from history could say it.

You think. I KNOW Who the basis of civilization is because God tells me so.

You claim to know. You think you know. Given that you deny logic and you deny the search for knowledge you can't coherently without contradiction claim to know anything.

26 “If you want to be my disciple, you must hate everyone else by comparison—your father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even your own life. Otherwise, you cannot be my disciple. 27 And if you do not carry your own cross and follow me, you cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26-27

Wow.

Just breathtaking.

 

[Philothei]

Pilothei seems to have this message for me as well

lol... Nah... I did not put that out for anybody...just sayin' for all of us in general. I think the pearls and the pigs are greatly missunderstood too... It has to do with the irrelevancy of the message ... when it comes to evangelization... It does not have to be derogatory just people taking offense but it points to the difference in value. People who do not appreciate something that God sends them and treat is as "nothing" while it is "pearls" of wisdom ... And yeah...Paul I think says about the 'dusting one's feet" and moving along

 

[Tergle]

Tergle:
If you like research, take a string of pearls, and cast them into a fenced in group of pigs. After a short time period retrieve them and see what happened to the pearls.

Science and the Bible get along well.

Pilothei seems to have this message for me as well

You are dealing with people that accuse we Christians of saying we have the answer to everything, yet, they actually act that out at every opportunity in their immutable assertions to have the only answer to achieve moral and social perfection through human efforts. Although, the secular world is becoming more and more unhinged.

And, secular Europe and America are hardly building utopia and are barely in front of the Islamic world in violence and barbaric authoritarians having their way on all.

 

[Skavau]

Philothei, just a few queries.

I am not saying that God will not be just...He will definately be just and will put the ones who do not know Him and never wanted to have a relationship with Him or aknowledge Him far away from Him. That is IMHO hell the absence of God who is all love and all good. God is the source of all love and goodness.

What do you think that God will do with those who obviously did want to be with him, but got the wrong idea? Such as Muslims, or Sikhs?

The reason God wants us to be with Him and aknowledge Him is not selfish on the contrary it is love that is His motive for all this. If we voluntarily reject Him...how is God chosing for us?

This is inaccurate. I am not voluntarily rejecting him. I don't believe that he exists. I am guilty of nothing more than having incorrect information and formulating a conclusion based on that.

We do not know ...some atheists are only agnostics and they just do not know if there is heaven or hell or a God... Would God take into account as to why they did not believe in Him? This is a tough question and I do not think that any of us can answer as we are NOT God. God will judge and see our level of belief or disbelief in Him. Some do have impaired "perceptions" of what is God or about the spiritual world. I still believe in he love and mercy of God for His creation....

Okay.

 

[Philothei]

Sure you can judge. You just made a judgment with that statement. One of the biggest misconceptions people make is that God has told them to not judge.

God's word makes clear that we are indeed to judge. He just expects us to judge righteously as opposed to hypocritically.

If a person says, I reject Jesus Christ, then you should be able to tell that person that in accordance with God's word, if you die in this rejection, you will spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire.

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-12.htm

12For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13But those who are outside, God judges.

http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-12.htmhttp://bible.cc/1_corinthians/5-12.htm

What do you then say about this ? It is obvious that we are not...But it is ok. so we disagree No sweat have a great night Zaac

 

[Tergle]

lol... Nah... I did not put that out for anybody...just sayin' for all of us in general. I think the pearls and the pigs are greatly missunderstood too... It has to do with the irrelevancy of the message ... when it comes to evangelization... It does not have to be derogatory just people taking offense but it points to the difference in value. People who do not appreciate something that God sends them and treat is as "nothing" while it is "pearls" of wisdom ... And yeah...Paul I think says about the 'dusting one's feet" and moving along

Both the pearls and pigs and the dust from off your shoes are from the direct teaching of Jesus. Though I'll bet Paul put both lessons into practice often. Look at where he ended up living? (And of course being killed.)

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Never said it was your own definition.

Hmmm, I present a standard definition of freewill and you respond with:

"Your definition is rejected for being perverse."

So yeah, you did...

"the foolishness of God is wiser than men"

You merely prove the point.

Let me reiterate something I've already said:

"...you can redefine words to your hearts content, but don't expect to be able to talk intelligently with anyone else."

And on that note, here's another book you should read:

"Philosophy Made Simple"
by Richard H. Popkin

 

[b&wpac7]

Look at where he ended up living? (And of course being killed.)

Where did he live and where was he killed?

 

[Philothei]

What do you think that God will do with those who obviously did want to be with him, but got the wrong idea? Such as Muslims, or Sikhs?

I do not know for I cannot judge ... I cannot imagine billions of innocent missleaded mulsims going to hell though. It says that God will judge them ...

This is inaccurate. I am not voluntarily rejecting him. I don't believe that he exists. I am guilty of nothing more than having incorrect information and formulating a conclusion based on that.

You have to take responsibility to "know" God. If you believe He does not exist is your faith that needs to be strenthened.... The information is for you to seek it out... Are you going to tell God "sorry I did not know you" and if He says I was always there.... what exactly can we say to him? "oh...I did not have good available information for you?"...

The responsibility falls on us to get to know Him.. He is already there He is our Father He is waiting....
I would understand if you did try and you did not "feel" Him; that is something that you might not be able to help... Have you tried to talk to a priest about this? *just asking as it worked for me ...I was an agnostic in my teenage years...*

 

[Tergle]

Once there was just a thought about Mustard Gas in the mind of a man.

And shortly thereafter all hell was loosed on mankind.

Marxism came from the thoughts of a man. And shortly after that came the tens of millions killed by its implementation on society.

And so on . . .

 

[Philothei]

Both the pearls and pigs and the dust from off your shoes are from the direct teaching of Jesus. Though I'll bet Paul put both lessons into practice often. Look at where he ended up living? (And of course being killed.)

True... Paul did a lot of walking and I am sure he knew about this too well... rejection... But he kept it up never slowing down No matter the obstacles.

 

[razeontherock]

Hmmm, I present a standard definition of freewill and you respond with:

"Your definition is rejected for being perverse."

So yeah, you did...

You fail to comprehend that you are able to share a definition with generations of philosophers, who are equally as foolish? And based on this I will read what you recommend, for more of the same?

That's human philosophy for ya ...

 

[razeontherock]

Where did he live and where was he killed?

Jail and Rome

 

[b&wpac7]

Jail and Rome

I've heard a few different locations for his death. I like hearing the options available.

 

[Zaac]

You just take some slight encouragement.

I don't have to be encouraged to say what I intend to say. If you'd asked the question instead of skirting around it, you would have gotten the same answer that you now think you coaxed out of me.

So what part am I lying about? My humanism or my atheism?

You're lying about saying there is no God.

In any case, though I won't report you for it and I know I egged you on to do it. Calling people liars openly does violate the terms of conditions. You should probably be made aware of it before you get the confidence to call every atheist liars.

as I've said many times before, I'm a big boy. I can deal with reports and the resulting punishment. But that will never allay me in preaching the truth of God's word.

If you assign the title of atheist to yourself, then I don't have any reservation at all in telling you that in accordance with God's word, that makes you a liar because HE says you know differently because HE has shown you so.

It does indeed. As does the God who established it.

Apparently not because you seem to be doing everything you can to CHOOSE to spend eternity there.

Sort of. I recognise that the scripture exists but I don't think it divinely ordained. In any case, the notion of 'God's truth' is rightly alien to me. There is no such thing.

And we go right back to you and your world centering around you. It's idolatry in its basest form.

Then the word of God as you understand it is at variance with reality and the existence of Muslims just proves it.

the word of God is at odds with everyone who is against it. That's a given.

So then, you admit that fate has nothing to do with what I choose but what I believe. Thanks for clarifying.

Is that a question or are you answering for me? You not accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will be your CHOICE to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. It is well within your control as long as you have the breath of life to CHOOSE otherwise.

You've been given the Gospel of Jesus Christ several times in this thread alone.

I have been given only literature and claims based on that literature. I don't believe that said literature is actually 'God's truth' and my rejection is based on my understanding which is necessarily not motivated by choice.

Again, you don't believe there is a God so why do you insist on saying you don't believe it's God's truth?

Your problem ain't God's truth. It's GOD.

So asides from having no morality at all, you are also a raving anti-intellectual who denies the utility of knowledge.

Intellectualism has never saved anyone from an eternal lake of fire.

Your ignorance of Islam amongst other things I am sure is what gives you the confidence to make overarching inaccurate statements about a massive percentage of the entire planet.

The Holy Spirit gives me the confidence to make overarching staements about those who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

Belief is not a choice. You are simply wrong.

Sure it is. You chose to believe what you just wrote.

If you deny the application of logic then you effectively deny cogency of any sort at all. Your argument might as well be in any order and in any method as it wouldn't be based on anything.

I preach Jesus Christ crucified and resurrected. The logic discussions can be saved for the intellectuals.

Nice to see though, that amongst all other things you're a solipsist as well

.

Now that's funny.

Instead you prefer to revel in his atrocities. Far worse.

I revel in God's truth. I do not revel in folks having to spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Wow.

I can't top that. It is as if any dictator from history could say it.

Then you feel free to add that as your siggie on all comments from me. Because as I said, if your definition of evil means I get to spend eternity with God, as opposed to your definition of good and not spend eternity with Him, then call me evil.

You claim to know. You think you know. Given that you deny logic and you deny the search for knowledge you can't coherently without contradiction claim to know anything.

I claim to KNOW what the ALL-KNOWING says.

Wow.

Just breathtaking.

What is breathtaking is how many times folks here God's truth yet still CHOOSE to reject Jesus Christ and thus CHOOSE to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

 

[razeontherock]

Where else have you heard he died, and from whom?

 

[b&wpac7]

Where else have you heard he died, and from whom?

I can't remember at this point who, but I heard someone suggest near Jerusalem, but I assume that was to make it "the Jews" that killed him LOL

I know it isn't recorded in the NT, so I just find it interesting.

 

[b&wpac7]

In a progressive city. Rome.

I don't think Rome fits easily into progressive or, I'm assuming, conservative. Modern political alignments really don't apply that well to antiquity.

Thank you for that information though. Paul, to me, is a very fascinating person as well as a very infuriating one.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You fail to comprehend that you are able to share a definition with generations of philosophers, who are equally as foolish? And based on this I will read what you recommend, for more of the same?

That's human philosophy for ya ...

Human beings define terms. Whether you think these human beings are foolish or not is immaterial to the discussion. You engaged me in a discussion about free will, and when presented with the definition of free will, you were completely flummoxed because you don't understand what the term means. And then you seemingly get angry and call all philosophers foolish...

Very telling behavior, but not surprising in the least...