Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
You have to believe that God allows those who were not able to believe in him to be tormented.
Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God.
I was under the impression that freewill is the freedom to exercise your will any how you choose. Do I need a whole set of books to understand this?I could try and explain the meaning of free will once again, since you're still not getting it, but I honestly don't have the time. I could provide a list of basic philosophy and critical thinking books that could really further your education if you'd like. It may help with any miscommunication you have on these forums, and knowing a little bit about critical thinking really is a boon in everyday life. I wish critical thinking classes were mandatory in schools. I think we'd produce fewer people who believe odd things.
But that would be an inaccurate observation of God, who could give everyone 10 million dollars if he so chose to (ignoring the economical consequences of that).
It is also worth adding that the accurate situation of most people is that they don't know that there are 10 million dollars around the corner, or in a certain location. They have no reason to look and it is highly unfair to them, in in an afterlife (going back to what you are contrasting it with) to undergo eternal torment for it.
Even in the absence of all the scientific knowledge we have there's no reason to believe the claim of theists. It's magic.
I was under the impression that freewill is the freedom to exercise your will any how you choose. Do I need a whole set of books to understand this?
Here's an example of freewill:
"I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses, therefore choose life, so that you and your children may live." - Deut 30:19.
Heaven or Hell is determined by the choice we freely make. It is for us to take God's advice and freely make the right choice.
That would include everything with "ears", right?The ONLY responsibility we have is to preach the Gospel... The ones who have ears will definately hear.
Are you saying atheists can be saved by just caring for their fellow man?Also belief has to do with the heart as well the mind.... So if this thread IMHO is about who gets to heaven...Hmmm.. I have to say that although Christ says I am the way and the truth... still we are not to interfere with that individual commitment that even the so called atheist have in their lives. Because if someone lives according to an ethic code that is indeed something positive for God.... Again it has to do with how we are living our lives and if we fail to believe in God then the second best would be to care for our fellow man at least ... My 0.2 cents here.
Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesnt seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."
So.... why, then, would man's "choosing to go to hell" land him in hell, ifHis power to save or do anything else is not affected by man's CHOOSING to go to hell.
This second best offering reminds me of Cain, the brother of Abel.Second best still gets a person spending eternity in the Lake of Fire. we're to point them to the One Who saves, not the second best.
Perhaps because just being in a relationship with the Divine, here andThen why repent as opposed to continuing to do what you do if there is no consequence?
Well, I have not seen each and every person who claims to have comeYou have seen no one come into a relationship with God who has not recognized what they are being saved from. That's why He is called SAVIOR.
The jury's still out on that one -- the Story isn't over yet.The gift of salvation is available to all. Not all choose to accept it.
My view is that your desire to see that no one be punished/tortured/tormented for eternity can be attributed to what I would define as goodness. 2 Peter 3:9 says The Lord... ...is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
just being in a relationship with the Divine, here and now, is rewarding in and of itself? Hopefully, Christians see Him as more
than mere fire-insurance.
the Story isn't over yet
They were probably referring to Stephen.I can't remember at this point who, but I heard someone suggest near Jerusalem, but I assume that was to make it "the Jews" that killed him LOL
I know it isn't recorded in the NT, so I just find it interesting.
I would think that genuine repentance wouldn't need the threat of
punishment as it's motivation.
Is fear of punishment the only reason to enter into a relationship with
the Lord? It seems I have seen other, more noble reasons for doing so
presented in the bible...
.
Fruit grow from seeds.It is also the Spirit that shows people why they need a Savior. Yes, we can utter words, but that utterance is not what brings forth fruit.
And you are right... It should not be the fear of the Lord...but the awe we have for Him who 'does wonders"...To me God is the source of my life my A and Omega... Alll depends on Him and Him alone. Contemplation of Him is indeed a wondrous thing... I never think of punishment as I cannot fathom being away from Him. His love is but experiential...no one can describe it except from actually being in it!I think a man like David would be horrified at the idea that being close to God wasn't enough to repent but the threat of punishment was the motivation. I feel sad for anybody who only has that as a reason.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?