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Atheists call for 'debaptism'

savvy

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Maybe from either extreme, this doesn't seem to make any sense, but from the point of view of one who has recently *become* atheist, or who is still close enough to religion to still resent the years it was foisted on them before they were old enough to consent, this makes perfect sense. I drifted from Christianity very slowly, and broke down in tears when I realized it was gone from my life. I mourned the ideas I couldn't force myself to believe anymore, the way I mourned dead relatives and friends. I can very much see how somebody would want a formalized split to mark the occasion--either in joy or sorrow. Plus, Oscar Wilde was right about a few things. One is that, for some people, the artistry of real life can help the person process it. Performing some ritual, by choice, that mirrors the one that was forced on them could provide some people with a sense of symmetry and balance that helps ease their passage into what may feel like a new life, or may help them feel like they have fully cut the ties to an organization.

For whatever reason a person might chose to do it, it isn't a decision that needs to 'make sense' from either a theistic or atheistic point of view. It's the sort of decision that a person would make from from feelings sentiment, personal symbolic significance and aesthetics. Like an initiation, or eating your late mother's favorite meal on her birthday, or something like that. There's no reason why anybody 'should' do it. But some people may find comfort in it all the same.

I agree with this. Shortly after deconversion, I was very defensive of atheism, antagonistic towards religious thought and wouldn't set foot in a church. I never had any rituals like this but I can see how it would be comforting. It's just part of the process of moving away from a belief system that had been embraced but then rejected. Like the rituals that happen involving deaths of loved ones. This is the death of a belief system. I've slid into a nice, happy agnosticism these days. Yeah, I was baptised. Meh. I'll even go to church these days and behave myself quite well there :cool:
 
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Athene

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How do you debaptize someone, by setting their hair on fire? Also, in what world is John Hunt "atheists"?

The only way I can see this as at all reasonable is if the church, after baptizing you as an infant, keeps you on some sort of official membership list. In other words, you were baptized in this church, therefore you are a churchmember, and from this we can tell that there is a certain number of churchmembers in this area. If I don't want anything to do with your church, then I think it's reasonable to demand that you take me off your membership list.

But then I don't know how churches reckon memberships and what sort of documentation a baptism produces.

The Catholic church views baptism as entry in to official church membership, but the Church of England does not. This guy was baptised in the CofE so in view of that his request is rather unreasonable and a bit silly. He was baptised - this is historical fact and can not be changed ever, you can't go back and erase bits of history just because you don't like them.
 
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JGL53

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Well, lets see:

1. I became an atheist when I was 28 years, 2 months, one week and two days old.

2. I am now 59 years, 10 months, a week and six days old.

3. I take an average of one shower per day, every day, whether I need it or not.

So

4. I figure I have symbolically washed away the sin of having been a Southern Baptist approximately 11,563 times now.

Jesus, I feel clean.
 
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tansy

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Well, lets see:

1. I became an atheist when I was 28 years, 2 months, one week and two days old.

2. I am now 59 years, 10 months, a week and six days old.

3. I take an average of one shower per day, every day, whether I need it or not.

So

4. I figure I have symbolically washed away the sin of having been a Southern Baptist approximately 11,563 times now.

Jesus, I feel clean.


Very droll.
 
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liftmeup

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I find this story so sad. If this guy is an atheist he surely sees no value in the baptismal rite, but by having to renouce or repeal it he is apportioning value to it (i.e. recognising Christ), and opposing it. There is a point where atheism stops being a neutral denial of faith and turns into an anti-Christian religion.
I hope he doesn't lead others astray.
I can just see news headlines to come proclaiming
"Pressure groups calling baptism of infants a violation of human rights",
"Citizen sues parents for baptizing him as an infant",
"State of xyz first to criminalise infant baptism as human rights violation"
So sad.
 
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liftmeup

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a symbolic ritual to undo another symbolic ritual?

I mean, if baptism wasn't crazy enough, this takes the cake.

I don't think God cares whether or not you had water blessed by a priest poured on your head anyway. And I'm sure He REALLY doesn't care if you 'cancel' it.

Man, I can't agree. The gospel made a pretty big deal about baptism. Christ himself was baptised. It's a sacrament I don't think God would have given us if he really didn't care - don't you think?! And I'm sure he'd be just a little offended if you tried to cancel this great gift...
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Man, I can't agree. The gospel made a pretty big deal about baptism. Christ himself was baptised. It's a sacrament I don't think God would have given us if he really didn't care - don't you think?! And I'm sure he'd be just a little offended if you tried to cancel this great gift...
I'm guessing this person wasn't saved and shouldn't have never been baptized in the first place.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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strange.

if they dont believe in the symbolic act of baptism....what would unbaptism do?

just prove they believe in some kind of symbolism?
I think he wants his name off the membership list and that what important to him.That's what I hope he's talking about.Agreed I don't see why he would care so much,Since he's atheist,But I think the church should take of the list.
 
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GuidanceNeeded

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To me it is just one person making a fuss over something he doesn't believe in, which in turn he is kind of saying it does stand for something by making such a fuss (make sense):confused:

Bottom line he wants attention, lo and behold he has received it!

The book he may want his name crossed out of though is the Book of Life which God holds. I've always been told once your name is written in the book it can't be unwritten, so how does he go about that ;)
 
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JGL53

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I'm a Christian and I don't agree with infant baptism, but as most people on this thread have said it does seem pointless trying to undo all this now.

The guy was obviously just trying to make a POINT - that religion is a fraud. He was obviously making an in-your-face symbolic gesture.

I doubt seriously that he thought the baptism ritual did something actual to him and that the de-baptizing anti-ritual will then serious undo the bad thing materially done to him.

You can be repulsed by what the guy did, but the least you can do is understand his POINT, which should be obvious.

It's like the fact that "in god we trust" was put on money for the first time in 1963 - the POINT being made was that god was on the side of the federal government against the rebellious slave-owning south.

Or like "under god" being inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance back in the 1950s - the POINT being made that the commies, our deadly enemies, were filthy atheists, thus all loyal Americans must be believers in god at the least, and hopefully Christian.

Or like the placing of creches or crosses or 10 commandment monuments, etc. on public property, The POINT being made is that this is a Christian nation, where the majority are Christians, and other should just accept that fact.

Or the placing of the confederate flag as part of the state flag of Mississippi or Georgia, or the flying of the confederate flag on the state property in - was it South Carolina? The POINT being made is that such states refuse to admit they were ever wrong about anything, as that would be a blow to their collective egos, which is something that will NOT fly.

You can agree or disagree with the POINT of a person's (or group of ppersons') symbolic action, but it should be easy to understand what POINT they are attempting to make.
 
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uberd00b

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I totally agree. A true atheist shouldn't care one whit if they were baptized or not, if they don't believe in the first place.
I asked my mother if I could be unbaptised when I was a child. I was rather affronted to have been incorporated into this <staff edit> without my approval. As JGL53 said, it's a symbolic gesture.
 
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British One

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The guy was obviously just trying to make a POINT - that religion is a fraud. He was obviously making an in-your-face symbolic gesture.

I doubt seriously that he thought the baptism ritual did something actual to him and that the de-baptizing anti-ritual will then serious undo the bad thing materially done to him.

You can be repulsed by what the guy did, but the least you can do is understand his POINT, which should be obvious.

It's like the fact that "in god we trust" was put on money for the first time in 1963 - the POINT being made was that god was on the side of the federal government against the rebellious slave-owning south.

Or like "under god" being inserted in the Pledge of Allegiance back in the 1950s - the POINT being made that the commies, our deadly enemies, were filthy atheists, thus all loyal Americans must be believers in god at the least, and hopefully Christian.

Or like the placing of creches or crosses or 10 commandment monuments, etc. on public property, The POINT being made is that this is a Christian nation, where the majority are Christians, and other should just accept that fact.

Or the placing of the confederate flag as part of the state flag of Mississippi or Georgia, or the flying of the confederate flag on the state property in - was it South Carolina? The POINT being made is that such states refuse to admit they were ever wrong about anything, as that would be a blow to their collective egos, which is something that will NOT fly.

You can agree or disagree with the POINT of a person's (or group of ppersons') symbolic action, but it should be easy to understand what POINT they are attempting to make.

Yeah I understand they are trying to make a point, but what I am questioning is whether or not it is worth it.

On a broader point, it interests me that both in the US and in the UK there has been a growing movement for years now to de-christianize society in every way possible both individually and politically.

People (especially athiests) seem to conveniently forget that it was the church that established these nations. It was the church that started the education system, the sanctity of law, and the hospitals. It was the church that established the first hospices caring for the dying, and the church that established the first charities. In the UK (not sure about US) many of the sports teams started out as sunday school teams, e.g. Manchester United etc.

Of course they made many mistakes on the way but the church established the foundations of these countries and we have benefited from that, but now decide we want nothing to do with it.
 
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JGL53

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Yeah I understand they are trying to make a point, but what I am questioning is whether or not it is worth it.

On a broader point, it interests me that both in the US and in the UK there has been a growing movement for years now to de-Christianize society in every way possible both individually and politically.

People (especially atheists) seem to conveniently forget that it was the church that established these nations. It was the church that started the education system, the sanctity of law, and the hospitals. It was the church that established the first hospices caring for the dying, and the church that established the first charities. In the UK (not sure about US) many of the sports teams started out as Sunday school teams, e.g. Manchester United etc.

Of course they made many mistakes on the way but the church established the foundations of these countries and we have benefited from that, but now decide we want nothing to do with it.


Interesting – “The "Mussolini made the trains run on time." argument.

Surely Christianity has a better justification for existing than lowly pragmatism?

The actual question here is - Is Christianity true?

If Christianity is true, in some literal sense, then nothing will be able to destroy it.

If it is false ontology, then more and more people in time will come to understand that fact - through education and argument - and literal belief in the revelatory or "supernatural" aspects of Christianity will decrease in time.

Alan Watts, back in the 1970s, predicted that the Christian religion so-called would continue to progress and evolve until it became a "Jesus without god" philosophy.

Maybe it will survive in that way. Maybe - metaphorically speaking - Homo Erectus will evolve into Homo Sapiens.


 
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seashale76

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*rubs eyebrows* What confuses me about it is, if people don't believe in God or that a baptism does anything, or both... then de-baptising is pointless since they already know it's not doing anything.

My cynical side sees a spurt of Atheist Evangelical style tv stations, complete with requests for money to help their brothers and sisters continue to not believe in God.

Pointless? Hardly. They get to indulge their rabble-rousing Christ hating side.
 
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