Atheist here (Ask me anything)

[Montalban]

Copy and paste for my prior posts:

Can you ask answers?

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Thanks. This is my number:

9198896940


eudaimonia,

Mark

Bummer. Don't really have any intelligent counter argument for you. I am not sure why God did not answer me. It must be a fault on my behalf some where.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Bummer. Don't really have any intelligent counter argument for you. I am not sure why God did not answer me. It must be a fault on my behalf some where.

Thank you for your honesty.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Quath]

Bummer. Don't really have any intelligent counter argument for you. I am not sure why God did not answer me. It must be a fault on my behalf some where.

I would be careful with that type of thinking. I know people who wanted to be faith healed. If they were not, they blamed themselves. You have shown more faith than many other people I have talked to, so I hope you don't feel the fault is yours.

 

[Mela Monkey]

Thanks. This is my number:

9198896940


eudaimonia,

Mark

I personally don't think God works like this, otherwise there would be no need for faith.

Besides, what if you guys did happen to have the same numbers? I doubt that such a small thing would cause you, or anyone, to start believing that God is real.

 

[Skeptic90]

Can you ask answers?

uhmm...what do you mean?

 

[Skeptic90]

I personally don't think God works like this, otherwise there would be no need for faith.

Besides, what if you guys did happen to have the same numbers? I doubt that such a small thing would cause you, or anyone, to start believing that God is real.

Agreed. The standards put by Christianity for god existence, are untestable. I think we have better chance in finding superman or pokemon.

 

[Montalban]

Agreed. The standards put by Christianity for god existence, are untestable. I think we have better chance in finding superman or pokemon.

What an odd thing to say. What are the chances of finding Superman as opposed to proving God's existence?

I note you've still not addressed my post to you about asking answers.

 

[Skeptic90]

What an odd thing to say. What are the chances of finding Superman as opposed to proving God's existence?

I note you've still not addressed my post to you about asking answers.

What are the chances? I don't know specifics, but they are higher opposed to god. Superman is a man, and he is actual material, as opposed to the Christian god. So to prove superman or pokemon, is pretty self explanatory, you just need to find them and show them and done. Well for god, he is an entity that cannot be put under the microscope and away from 'human understanding'. So to figure out a way to find god is nearly impossible, as in find to prove his existence.

I did address your prior question 2 posts back, and I don't get what you are trying to say. What do you mean when you say asking answers?

 

[Montalban]

uhmm...what do you mean?

I cited you already on this. Here it is again...

Well I am 19 years old, currently going to a University in the San Diego area. I used to be a Catholic for 19 years, until I started asking answers to myself

 

[Montalban]

What are the chances? I don't know specifics, but they are higher opposed to god.

Then it's a 'just-so' statement

I did address your prior question 2 posts back, and I don't get what you are trying to say. What do you mean when you say asking answers?

It's just one of several examples of things you say that don't quite add up. Like the one above. You just know your statement to be true, and that's it.

 

[Skeptic90]

I cited you already on this. Here it is again...

Oops thats a typo. I meant questions, not answers. Good catch! Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Skeptic90]

Then it's a 'just-so' statement

Well its like this. You are told to investigate a murder. What are the chances that a human killed the certain person? What about a leopard? What about a dinosaur? Now lets say someone tells you a mysterious force that no one has seen and has untold powers killed the person, or even a alien ghost from another universe killed him?

Well for the person, it is higher than a leopard, because statistically speaking, people kill more people than leopards. Leopards are still in the ballgame because they still exist. A dinosaur is still even more probable than this mysterious force or ghost because we know it one day existed. So for the ghost and force, we can simply say its improbable and we can put it down in the end of list as possible suspects. Until provided with more evidence, then we can start saying that maybe a ghost or force did it.

 

[Montalban]

Well its like this. You are told to investigate a murder. What are the chances that a human killed the certain person? What about a leopard? What about a dinosaur? Now lets say someone tells you a mysterious force that no one has seen and has untold powers killed the person, or even a alien ghost from another universe killed him?

Well for the person, it is higher than a leopard, because statistically speaking, people kill more people than leopards. Leopards are still in the ballgame because they still exist. A dinosaur is still even more probable than this mysterious force or ghost because we know it one day existed. So for the ghost and force, we can simply say its improbable and we can put it down in the end of list as possible suspects. Until provided with more evidence, then we can start saying that maybe a ghost or force did it.

That's assuming that mysterious forces don't exist.

But you gave this a quantifiable dimension -saying you knew something to be more likely. And you've not demonstrated this.

 

[Skeptic90]

That's assuming that mysterious forces don't exist.

But you gave this a quantifiable dimension -saying you knew something to be more likely. And you've not demonstrated this.

Well not assuming they don't exist, as in there is no way they can exist, I accept the possibility, but it is so improbable and the overwhelming lack of evidence that they do that I say that I do not think there is a probable chance that a force committed the murder.

I am simply generalizing, I do not have exact facts. I can't say that there is a 1% or 30% or any chance, I am just saying its less likely compared to others.

Lets get back to the murder. Lets say this murder happened in low income neighborhood and the guy was an 18 year old hispanic dressed in baggy clothing. He suffered 3 gunshot wounds. We could say that its more likely another gangmember killed this individual, than say a rich 80 year old man. Its simple deductive reasoning.

Now lets say in this case that police later stopped an old man driving his buggatti with a pistol and some casings in the front seat of the car matching those that the victim suffered, then, after new evidence comes in, we could say that maybe the old man killed the kid.

Now with the idea of god, it is more likely in my eyes that god is just another man made idea, than god existing. This is what caused me to become an agnostic. Accepting the idea that god may be human made.

Now what things show me this? Well one of the main things that really changed my perspective was when I was watching the documentary "rise of man". It really showed how man used religion for the societies advantage. Then I asked myself how does believing in god benefit me? So then I saw that belief helped me by me having a strong sense of belonging, feeling loved, feeling support by god, guardian angel, holy spirit, jesus, and the church community. Also I saw the benefits that religion has to government. It provides the grownwork for code of laws and helps the moral and spread of power during times of war. Then I saw who were the first christians, who were mostly the poor and slaves. This and more put me to think that maybe this is more natural than supernatural. So in my opinion, god is a product of man.

"It is said that men may not be the dreams of the Gods, but rather that the Gods are the dreams of men." - Carl Sagan


Heres a quick video on this 'possibilities' talk
http://www.youtube.com/user/QualiaSoup#p/u/2/5wV_REEdvxo

 

[Mela Monkey]

Now with the idea of god, it is more likely in my eyes that god is just another man made idea, than god existing. This is what caused me to become an agnostic. Accepting the idea that god may be human made.

Now what things show me this? Well one of the main things that really changed my perspective was when I was watching the documentary "rise of man". It really showed how man used religion for the societies advantage. Then I asked myself how does believing in god benefit me? So then I saw that belief helped me by me having a strong sense of belonging, feeling loved, feeling support by god, guardian angel, holy spirit, jesus, and the church community. Also I saw the benefits that religion has to government. It provides the grownwork for code of laws and helps the moral and spread of power during times of war. Then I saw who were the first christians, who were mostly the poor and slaves. This and more put me to think that maybe this is more natural than supernatural. So in my opinion, god is a product of man.

"It is said that men may not be the dreams of the Gods, but rather that the Gods are the dreams of men." - Carl Sagan

This is why organized religion is ruining what people think about christianity. God hates religion. Religion is man's way of trying to become closer to God.

Now, what exactly is "religion?" I don't know exactly, but it's things like.. you HAVE to pray once a day, you HAVE to go to church, and you HAVE to read the bible every day.

Unfortunately this turns off many people to christianity, it turns me off too, when people say that you HAVE to do certian things in order to be a christian.

I believe that God just wants to have a personal relationship with everyone, and that they would try to live how he says, to the best of their abilities. Not trying to force anything on other people.

But, of course.. I would only believe this if I thought God is real. How do I know for sure that he is real? I guess I don't, but like I said before.. that's where faith comes in.

Sorry if i'm coming off too strong lol


One other thing. If you're athiest, is it possible to believe in spirits? Wouldn't that go against believing that there is a logical and scientific explanation for everything?

 

[nicknack28]

This is why organized religion is ruining what people think about christianity. God hates religion. Religion is man's way of trying to become closer to God.

Now, what exactly is "religion?" I don't know exactly, but it's things like.. you HAVE to pray once a day, you HAVE to go to church, and you HAVE to read the bible every day.

Unfortunately this turns off many people to christianity, it turns me off too, when people say that you HAVE to do certian things in order to be a christian.

I believe that God just wants to have a personal relationship with everyone, and that they would try to live how he says, to the best of their abilities. Not trying to force anything on other people.

But, of course.. I would only believe this if I thought God is real. How do I know for sure that he is real? I guess I don't, but like I said before.. that's where faith comes in.

Sorry if i'm coming off too strong lol


One other thing. If you're athiest, is it possible to believe in spirits? Wouldn't that go against believing that there is a logical and scientific explanation for everything?

Thank you, this is a somewhat refreshing view. I'm sure others feel the same way but it isn't often written out. I can understand people feeling the need to embrace something more then themselves, to reciprocate their feelings positively towards others, and to accept it as a personal element and inspiration rather than one that others need to accept. It's when it comes to the specifics of religion that my brow usually furrows. This makes it easier (at least for me) to empathize with pantheists, deists, universalists, and others with fewer specifics.

Regarding atheists and spirits, you don't have to advocate and scientific logic to be an atheist. You just have to not be a theist. You could not care the slightest about any sort of supernatural, or reject theism out of some emotional reaction, or not even be able to comprehend the concepts of any sort of divine and you could still be called an atheist. I would predict that most atheists who do advocate scientific approaches would not believe in spirits (or anything else so far unevidenced by science), but I'm sure there are those out there who do.

 

[Skeptic90]

This is why organized religion is ruining what people think about christianity. God hates religion. Religion is man's way of trying to become closer to God.

Now, what exactly is "religion?" I don't know exactly, but it's things like.. you HAVE to pray once a day, you HAVE to go to church, and you HAVE to read the bible every day.

Unfortunately this turns off many people to christianity, it turns me off too, when people say that you HAVE to do certian things in order to be a christian.

I believe that God just wants to have a personal relationship with everyone, and that they would try to live how he says, to the best of their abilities. Not trying to force anything on other people.

But, of course.. I would only believe this if I thought God is real. How do I know for sure that he is real? I guess I don't, but like I said before.. that's where faith comes in.

Sorry if i'm coming off too strong lol


One other thing. If you're athiest, is it possible to believe in spirits? Wouldn't that go against believing that there is a logical and scientific explanation for everything?

Well my 'deconvertion' from theism to atheism wasn't because of praying and such, it had almost no effect on me on my disbelief.

Well atheism is just a disbelief from god, but sure you may believe in spirits, although is very unusual for an atheist to do so. Yes that would go against the science and logic. It would be like a gay who votes against gay marriage.
But 99% of atheists disbelieve the supernatural and the unknown.

 

[Montalban]

This is why organized religion is ruining what people think about christianity. God hates religion. Religion is man's way of trying to become closer to God.

Where does God say he hates religion?

Now, what exactly is "religion?" I don't know exactly, but it's things like.. you HAVE to pray once a day, you HAVE to go to church, and you HAVE to read the bible every day.

It's also a set of beliefs

Unfortunately this turns off many people to christianity, it turns me off too, when people say that you HAVE to do certian things in order to be a christian.

That's the thing about Christianity. It has a definition, and in that definition is a set of beliefs. Believing in Christ is something you have to do to be a Christian.

So I believe you're not against 'doing' things, but 'doing' paticular things you're against, which is not the same objection.

I believe that God just wants to have a personal relationship with everyone, and that they would try to live how he says, to the best of their abilities. Not trying to force anything on other people.

Why's God want to have a personal relationship? Why can't he also have a corporate relationship?

One other thing. If you're athiest, is it possible to believe in spirits? Wouldn't that go against believing that there is a logical and scientific explanation for everything?

This is the thing about the OP's statements which seems confused. One could believe in 'ghosts' without having to believe in God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

One other thing. If you're athiest, is it possible to believe in spirits? Wouldn't that go against believing that there is a logical and scientific explanation for everything?

For those logical and scientific atheists, it would simply take sufficiently convincing evidence. Obviously, illogical arguments, or feelings alone, would not be enough.

I don't believe in disembodied spirits due to the lack of evidence, but I sometimes refer to human beings as having spirits, by which I simply mean their minds and personalities.


eudaimonia,

Mark