-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Atheist here (Ask me anything)
- Thread starter Skeptic90
- Start date
- Status
nicknack28
Browncoat
It was my understanding that the situation was simply extremely ironic. The aunt was commenting on the extreme irrationality of such a belief, yet their beliefs are founded on the exact same supposed virtue that the aunt's own beliefs are founded on -- faith. She's got an enormous double-standard on the legitimacy of beliefs goin' for her.
I could be wrong, of course.
Upvote
0
Dragons87
The regal Oriental kind; not evil princess-napper
If I may say so respectfully, I think another interpretation is that you have a heavy bias on your part, and what you say condemns yourself to the same double standard, or at least shows a misunderstanding of your aunt's point of view.
I think we've been through the definition of faith before, haven't we? Faith can be described as a mental tool that one uses to see things through when one tries something new that one has no evidence of success or failure.
In that sense, faith is as neutral as a gun--it's not the tool that's at fault when harm is done, but the motive behind using that tool.
Upvote
0
Montalban
Well-Known Member
I can, in the most general terms see that if person "A" says that they believe in something based on faith would seem the same as person "B" saying that they also believe in something based on faith, however people have 'reasons' for having faith. Those reasons can make the difference between faith being blind and a reasonable 'risk' to take.*
However I saw nothing in what that poster said to suggest that it was simply comparing someone of one faith talking about someone of another faith.
I too could be wrong, of course.
*an example is given here...
"When we read in Bouchet about miracles associated with the relics of Saint Hilary we can shrug it off: His right to be believed is not great enough to take away our freedom to challenge him. But to go on from there and condemn all similar accounts seems to me to be impudent in the extreme. Such a great saint as Augustine swears that he saw: a blind child restored to sight by the relics of Saint Gervaise and Saint Protasius at Milan; a woman in Carthage cured of a cancer by the sign of the cross made by a woman who had just been baptised; his close friend Hesperius driving off devils (who were infesting his house) by using a little soil taken from the sepulchre of our Lord, and that same soil, borne into the Church, suddenly curing a paralytic; a woman who, having touched the reliquary of Saint Stephen with a posy of flowers during a procession, rubbed her eyes with them afterwards and recovered her sight which she had recently lost... What are we to accuse him of - hum and the two holy bishops, Aurelius and Maximinus, whom he calls on as witnesses? Is it of ignorance, simple-mindedness, credulity, deliberate deception or imposture? .... 'Qui, ut rationem mullan afferent, ipsa auhtoritate me frangerent (Why, even if they gave no reasons, they would convince me by their very authority)
Michel de Montaigne in "That it is madness to judge the true and the false from our own capacities" in
Michel de Montaigne (1993), "The Essays: A Selection", Penguin Classics
Upvote
0
nicknack28
Browncoat
Of course, perhaps your guys' interpretation of my post is heavily biased. I included absolutely no reference to someone having evidence of anything orhaving reasons or not having reasons for faith. All I said is that they are both founded on faith. If they both have reasons for their faith, who is to say that the aunt's reasons are any better?
I believe that people may be injecting an argument where there is none, perhaps simply because it is an argument that so readily arises elsewhere. I made no point whatsoever about unevidential, blind, or reason-less faith. It is almost as if there is a faith-radar around these parts where if any the word faith is brought up it must immediately be argued to some extent regardless if it is needed.
Upvote
0
Copy and paste for my prior posts:
Well there wasn't any strictly one thing that change my mind. It just flowed together, and it was a very slow transition. I used to be a catholic, which was almost exactly a year ago, since the first week of January. Well for 18 years I never questioned my religious beliefs with my scientific beliefs. I went to school, learned about science and history, and I went home and I read the bible and went to saturday 'church school'. So after I left home and went to college, I took various classes like anthropology and rhetoric writing and argument, which I had to read and learn about differing opinions, and evaluate and make an argument of the case. So I first applied it to my political beliefs. With all the presidential debates and news, I became almost addicted at politics, really exciting. So after reading a bit of political philosophy like plato and others, I slowly shifted my political mentality from a conservative to a constitutionalist/libertarian ideaology, jefforsonian. So then after much reading I became a moderate, took ideas from each side, like progressive taxing, and ACLU ideas, and more oversight of goverment by the people and so on.
After, a day before I started my second semester of college, I was bored and I went to my usual channels which are discovery/science/history channels. So there was this film on early human civilization, like farming, politics, and so on. Then at one segment, there was how religion started. That got me thinking. I asked, what if religion is just a human made idea? So then I started reading more on religions and did as I did before with politics, look at both sides and see which one make more logical sense. Then I asked, could god be human made too? an idea? So after a few weeks, I became an agnostic. I believed that god may or may not be real, we don't know really. Atheists don't have any evidence sayng there is no god, as well as all the theists with their god(s). So I was like its either there is a god or isn't. So it equally as wrong to say there is or there isn't. Then I remembered that there could be one, two, three, or more gods, or gods with diffrent ideas, so which religion is right, or which interpertation of god is right? So then the odds were realistically not 50/50, more like 1 in an infinity. So I became an agnostic-atheist, or atheist for short. There is a possibility there is a god, very small, but unlikely. So therefore I don't believe, I am an atheist. Atheism: lack of belief of the existence of a god(s). Agnosticism: Lack of knowledge of the existance of a god(s)
and finally I am a skeptic, one who questions, and seeker of the more probable and logical truth.
So what really made me an atheist? Math.
Now for how I asked the questions, here is a superb explanation how in thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg
edit: post too long so I will make a second one below that continues from this.
Upvote
0
A copy and paste from my blog:
Well it all started when I left my parents house, and decided to move out to college. So in the first semester, I decided to go into the intervarsity program, or in other words bible study. For the first semester, I read the bible with other like minded people like I have done in my past 18 years. I was really good in choosing passages and talking about what I believed in. During the same time, last year in the 1st semester of college, I took a few classes. One of the classes was cultural anthropology. I always like studying about about other ideas and people, so it seemed like a good fit.
My teachers main goal was to teach us how to think like an anthropologist. When you are studying another culture, you must put aside all your beliefs, and be extremely openminded about the ideas you study. Or in other words, think in an culturally relative point of view.
Throughout my life, I always kept science and religion in two completely seperate places. When I was in school I was exceptionally good in science, loved it. When I left school, I was really religious,and took the creation story by heart. It was like a switch in my head, that I turned off and on. Not until I reached college, I decided to mix both ideas, and simply find truth, not the perfect truth, but the more accurate proof.
This happened a day before my second semester. Before I get to that point, i'll explain how it fueled it. So for the past 6 or so months, I was really into politics. I spent maybe 5 hours a day, simply reading on a variety of issues, that I never had looked at before. This happened the first semester of college. Before I was in college, I used to have a conservative viewpoint of things, mainly because I agreed what my peers told me. What really convinced me was "why should rich people be punished for being successful?", along with 9/11, this whole environment really got me to feeling patriotic, and as my peers and fox news told me, that the democrats are nothing but pussies and unpatriotic. This is how I got into NJROTC. I was the most motivated and dedicated cadet you could find. I quickly rose through the ranks, and in my senior year, I was the commanding officer of one of the best units in area 11, which makes up most of California and Arizona. I went to leadership academy, did mini boot camp, and volunteered at every event possible. Ended up being taking the highest rank possible of cadet commander and awarded with every possible award, including meritorious achievement, which is like the medal of honor of JROTC. We were a family, no one can come in and mess with our family. We were also ultra-conservative about our ideals. So then I graduated high school, and decided to learn more about myself. So the whole primary things were happening. I decided to look which candidates were the ones that were the best. So with deciding, I decided the rational thing to do was too look at the issues and all. So I would see the debates, and after a few weeks of hours upon hours of research, I took a libertarian standpoint of things. As you could guess, I was a ron paul supporter. It really got me motivated, and nearly obsessed about politics. It was all about civil liberties and limiting spending, taking what our founding fathers left us. I felt like I represented our founding principles.
So after the primaries, It was clear that ron paul lost, all we had left was John mccain, and barack obama. I decided to take the endevour to put aside my differences, and simply learn more about what these democrats wanted to say, so I heard what obama said, and what mccain was talking about. After a few weeks, I discovered that the principles that stood before, are not appropriate any more. So this is where I stand now, a economic progressive, and a lover of my civil liberties, an independent. No party could tell me what to believe or not, especially the news. So I looked at the facts, and I decided like a judge, which were the ones that were better for me. I took the extra step, and tried to create my own politcal party, a party for political freethinkers. This was our site: ipa (oreztnega)
I know, myself, along with my best friend, were really motivated. But now we have saw reality, and it was just one of those overnight things.
So now I am a moderate, with the same principles of conservatism of liberties and constitution, and economic principles of progressives, and some minor other conservative principles like gold standards and fed and so on.
So after the election happened, where I left off a few paragraphs back, I decided to take a few classes and re look at things I have left before. So last semester, I decided to take astronomy, moral and ethical philosophy, rhetorical writing and argument, communications, and one other class for my information systems major.
The day before college started, I went to my half-sisters house. I sat there flipping through the channels bored, and I went to one of my favorite channels, the history channel. The show that was on was on was "the rise of man". It was simply a documentary on how man went from being nomads, to hunters and gathers, all the way to civilization. So from the knowledge of anthropology, I watched the show at it as any other social scientist would. So it was the usual, man invents and all, and everything as usual. Then it came to a point in the documentary were it really got me thinking. In one part of the film, it showed that man came together to form a city-state. In the city-state, there was a king. A big plague hit the city state, and the king had to do something. People were dying from this mysterious illness. This is were he decided to convince everyone that this was a punishment from a god. So then the king created religion, in order to save its people. He banned people with the 'mark' and he saved his people from almost certain death. Then he later found out that he could use religion for power and other things. So after watching this, it really got me thinking. So the next day, I got my bags, and headed back to college. During the trip over there and the night before, this really got me thinking. So I got into college, and that weekend, I decided to research more about this thing. It was like an itch that had to be scratched. So with every new discovery, more questions came, it was like a mental explosion, I was literally obsessed in finding out the truth, and quickly became really interested in religion.
So it first started with things we know. So the first thing I did is try to reconcile god and evolution. So after much thought, I came in the conclusion that god must be the designer, and explains the beginning of the universe. God created evolution, and now god just lets things happen. At the moment I thought I was a genius, finally figured out how to fit both ideas. After some research, I found out other people came with the same conclusion. So then I thought about it more, and found a flaw. Why didn't god simply write the evolution theory instead, and told us the truth, and if it was satan who created it, then why would god let him, and so many other questions came up. So as a good believer, I decided that god exists, and thats it. Screw all the doubts. So then I moved on to another question that was brought to my attention. The question was creation. How did the world start? And what about the laws of physics and all? Also the question of free will and problem of evil came up. So I felt again like I made a new discovery, that maybe god, was an unconscious being, and he was nature, and the laws of the universe. So by discovering science, I discovered a bit more about god, and how he created this awesome universe. So I became an agnostic-theist. A day or two later, I learned about plato's myth of the cave, and the levels of reality. After I have read this new idea, then it reassured me of my standpoint, that god was the good, and all.
So then after a conversation with my best friend about what I discovered, then a question popped in my head, how could the universe be different without god, what if there was no god? How would everything change? For a second I thought I was the only person in this world who has ever thought about this. A universe without god. So after a few minutes of googling my new idea, I discovered the concepts of agnosticism, atheism, and so on. I took the en devour to look at this new idea, just like I did with politics. So for the next month, I researched and researched. In philosophy class, I learned about many new ideas I have never imagined, I got back to my old passion which I forgotten about from elementary school, astronomy, and I learned about human communication and ideas. After hours and days of obsessing on this new ideas, I found myself asking the same question I did before. Is it possible there is no god? Is it possible to this universe to exist without a creator?
And the answer was yes.
I became an agnostic.
In my mind I believed that there is no way of telling there is or isn't a god. Not believing in god is as foolish as believing there is one. So I stood by I don't know. Its a 50/50 chance. I decided to look at both sides, theism and atheism, and see if could figure out something I have left out.
I then saw both arguments, and I believe that it takes as much faith to believe in god, as in, to believe in one. This was my flaw. I had misconceptions of what an atheist was. I thought atheists were 100% sure that there was no god. After some research, I found out, like I said in the responses in the poll, that atheism isn't you being certain about there being no god, its simply the lack of one. This didn't changed my mind, because I didn't know, so I cannot say there is or isn't, simply unscientific.
So after a few weeks, I saw the movie 21. Its all about probability, and math. Then I discovered that a philosopher, also tried to use math to discover god. His conclusion was the same I had before, that math is god. He too was a roman catholic, like myself. So I rethought the 50/50 probability. Is god really 50/50?
So like in the 3 month, In my astronomy class, we went to abstract subjects like dark energy and matter, blackholes, and the big bang. One of my favorite things I loved when I was in 5th grade was abstract astronomy, the cool stuff. Like black holes, sucking up matter, stars blowing up, different dimensions, life in other planets, and parallel universe. A few years back, in my 10th grade, i believe, class, I debated with one of my good friends about time travel and time machines. I found out that if you go back to the past, theoretically, and changed something, you would leave the current version unchanged, and simply create an alternate 'path'. Now you have created 2 different 'worlds', either that, or 1st one disappears. Then later it was about life on other planets, is it possible, yes, so then is it 50/50? Then it was very similar to the god question, which too was 50/50.
Then the idea popped in my head that if there are other life in other planets, then there would not just be one kind, but many kinds of life. So like god, there could be just one god, or two gods, or three gods, and so on. The odds weren't 50/50 it was more more like 1/infinity. Simply because there could be many other things. There could be anything that created the world, and have the same amount of validity. God was as probable as a allah, zuez, fairy, or a dinosaur, or my mom. The odds were not 50/50. So then after this I slowly shifted from an agnostic, to an agnostic atheist. I lack a belief in a god. Until there is some evidence pointing to a god, I simply say i think you are wrong you are right, hence the term lack of belief, or disbelief. I am not certain, I don't know. So this is how I became an agnostic-atheist, which most just refer to atheist.
This is how I became an atheist through nothing more than logic and rationality. Also there are other things that influenced this, which I will explain next, why I think religion is wrong, and why is it more probable that religion and god was created by man, rather than god inspired man to do so. I have recently be reading about memetics, or the study how ideas transmit. And so many other things. These other ideas, are simply answering why atheism is a more rational philosophy than theist philosophy.
Well it all started when I left my parents house, and decided to move out to college. So in the first semester, I decided to go into the intervarsity program, or in other words bible study. For the first semester, I read the bible with other like minded people like I have done in my past 18 years. I was really good in choosing passages and talking about what I believed in. During the same time, last year in the 1st semester of college, I took a few classes. One of the classes was cultural anthropology. I always like studying about about other ideas and people, so it seemed like a good fit.
My teachers main goal was to teach us how to think like an anthropologist. When you are studying another culture, you must put aside all your beliefs, and be extremely openminded about the ideas you study. Or in other words, think in an culturally relative point of view.
Throughout my life, I always kept science and religion in two completely seperate places. When I was in school I was exceptionally good in science, loved it. When I left school, I was really religious,and took the creation story by heart. It was like a switch in my head, that I turned off and on. Not until I reached college, I decided to mix both ideas, and simply find truth, not the perfect truth, but the more accurate proof.
This happened a day before my second semester. Before I get to that point, i'll explain how it fueled it. So for the past 6 or so months, I was really into politics. I spent maybe 5 hours a day, simply reading on a variety of issues, that I never had looked at before. This happened the first semester of college. Before I was in college, I used to have a conservative viewpoint of things, mainly because I agreed what my peers told me. What really convinced me was "why should rich people be punished for being successful?", along with 9/11, this whole environment really got me to feeling patriotic, and as my peers and fox news told me, that the democrats are nothing but pussies and unpatriotic. This is how I got into NJROTC. I was the most motivated and dedicated cadet you could find. I quickly rose through the ranks, and in my senior year, I was the commanding officer of one of the best units in area 11, which makes up most of California and Arizona. I went to leadership academy, did mini boot camp, and volunteered at every event possible. Ended up being taking the highest rank possible of cadet commander and awarded with every possible award, including meritorious achievement, which is like the medal of honor of JROTC. We were a family, no one can come in and mess with our family. We were also ultra-conservative about our ideals. So then I graduated high school, and decided to learn more about myself. So the whole primary things were happening. I decided to look which candidates were the ones that were the best. So with deciding, I decided the rational thing to do was too look at the issues and all. So I would see the debates, and after a few weeks of hours upon hours of research, I took a libertarian standpoint of things. As you could guess, I was a ron paul supporter. It really got me motivated, and nearly obsessed about politics. It was all about civil liberties and limiting spending, taking what our founding fathers left us. I felt like I represented our founding principles.
So after the primaries, It was clear that ron paul lost, all we had left was John mccain, and barack obama. I decided to take the endevour to put aside my differences, and simply learn more about what these democrats wanted to say, so I heard what obama said, and what mccain was talking about. After a few weeks, I discovered that the principles that stood before, are not appropriate any more. So this is where I stand now, a economic progressive, and a lover of my civil liberties, an independent. No party could tell me what to believe or not, especially the news. So I looked at the facts, and I decided like a judge, which were the ones that were better for me. I took the extra step, and tried to create my own politcal party, a party for political freethinkers. This was our site: ipa (oreztnega)
I know, myself, along with my best friend, were really motivated. But now we have saw reality, and it was just one of those overnight things.
So now I am a moderate, with the same principles of conservatism of liberties and constitution, and economic principles of progressives, and some minor other conservative principles like gold standards and fed and so on.
So after the election happened, where I left off a few paragraphs back, I decided to take a few classes and re look at things I have left before. So last semester, I decided to take astronomy, moral and ethical philosophy, rhetorical writing and argument, communications, and one other class for my information systems major.
The day before college started, I went to my half-sisters house. I sat there flipping through the channels bored, and I went to one of my favorite channels, the history channel. The show that was on was on was "the rise of man". It was simply a documentary on how man went from being nomads, to hunters and gathers, all the way to civilization. So from the knowledge of anthropology, I watched the show at it as any other social scientist would. So it was the usual, man invents and all, and everything as usual. Then it came to a point in the documentary were it really got me thinking. In one part of the film, it showed that man came together to form a city-state. In the city-state, there was a king. A big plague hit the city state, and the king had to do something. People were dying from this mysterious illness. This is were he decided to convince everyone that this was a punishment from a god. So then the king created religion, in order to save its people. He banned people with the 'mark' and he saved his people from almost certain death. Then he later found out that he could use religion for power and other things. So after watching this, it really got me thinking. So the next day, I got my bags, and headed back to college. During the trip over there and the night before, this really got me thinking. So I got into college, and that weekend, I decided to research more about this thing. It was like an itch that had to be scratched. So with every new discovery, more questions came, it was like a mental explosion, I was literally obsessed in finding out the truth, and quickly became really interested in religion.
So it first started with things we know. So the first thing I did is try to reconcile god and evolution. So after much thought, I came in the conclusion that god must be the designer, and explains the beginning of the universe. God created evolution, and now god just lets things happen. At the moment I thought I was a genius, finally figured out how to fit both ideas. After some research, I found out other people came with the same conclusion. So then I thought about it more, and found a flaw. Why didn't god simply write the evolution theory instead, and told us the truth, and if it was satan who created it, then why would god let him, and so many other questions came up. So as a good believer, I decided that god exists, and thats it. Screw all the doubts. So then I moved on to another question that was brought to my attention. The question was creation. How did the world start? And what about the laws of physics and all? Also the question of free will and problem of evil came up. So I felt again like I made a new discovery, that maybe god, was an unconscious being, and he was nature, and the laws of the universe. So by discovering science, I discovered a bit more about god, and how he created this awesome universe. So I became an agnostic-theist. A day or two later, I learned about plato's myth of the cave, and the levels of reality. After I have read this new idea, then it reassured me of my standpoint, that god was the good, and all.
So then after a conversation with my best friend about what I discovered, then a question popped in my head, how could the universe be different without god, what if there was no god? How would everything change? For a second I thought I was the only person in this world who has ever thought about this. A universe without god. So after a few minutes of googling my new idea, I discovered the concepts of agnosticism, atheism, and so on. I took the en devour to look at this new idea, just like I did with politics. So for the next month, I researched and researched. In philosophy class, I learned about many new ideas I have never imagined, I got back to my old passion which I forgotten about from elementary school, astronomy, and I learned about human communication and ideas. After hours and days of obsessing on this new ideas, I found myself asking the same question I did before. Is it possible there is no god? Is it possible to this universe to exist without a creator?
And the answer was yes.
I became an agnostic.
In my mind I believed that there is no way of telling there is or isn't a god. Not believing in god is as foolish as believing there is one. So I stood by I don't know. Its a 50/50 chance. I decided to look at both sides, theism and atheism, and see if could figure out something I have left out.
I then saw both arguments, and I believe that it takes as much faith to believe in god, as in, to believe in one. This was my flaw. I had misconceptions of what an atheist was. I thought atheists were 100% sure that there was no god. After some research, I found out, like I said in the responses in the poll, that atheism isn't you being certain about there being no god, its simply the lack of one. This didn't changed my mind, because I didn't know, so I cannot say there is or isn't, simply unscientific.
So after a few weeks, I saw the movie 21. Its all about probability, and math. Then I discovered that a philosopher, also tried to use math to discover god. His conclusion was the same I had before, that math is god. He too was a roman catholic, like myself. So I rethought the 50/50 probability. Is god really 50/50?
So like in the 3 month, In my astronomy class, we went to abstract subjects like dark energy and matter, blackholes, and the big bang. One of my favorite things I loved when I was in 5th grade was abstract astronomy, the cool stuff. Like black holes, sucking up matter, stars blowing up, different dimensions, life in other planets, and parallel universe. A few years back, in my 10th grade, i believe, class, I debated with one of my good friends about time travel and time machines. I found out that if you go back to the past, theoretically, and changed something, you would leave the current version unchanged, and simply create an alternate 'path'. Now you have created 2 different 'worlds', either that, or 1st one disappears. Then later it was about life on other planets, is it possible, yes, so then is it 50/50? Then it was very similar to the god question, which too was 50/50.
Then the idea popped in my head that if there are other life in other planets, then there would not just be one kind, but many kinds of life. So like god, there could be just one god, or two gods, or three gods, and so on. The odds weren't 50/50 it was more more like 1/infinity. Simply because there could be many other things. There could be anything that created the world, and have the same amount of validity. God was as probable as a allah, zuez, fairy, or a dinosaur, or my mom. The odds were not 50/50. So then after this I slowly shifted from an agnostic, to an agnostic atheist. I lack a belief in a god. Until there is some evidence pointing to a god, I simply say i think you are wrong you are right, hence the term lack of belief, or disbelief. I am not certain, I don't know. So this is how I became an agnostic-atheist, which most just refer to atheist.
This is how I became an atheist through nothing more than logic and rationality. Also there are other things that influenced this, which I will explain next, why I think religion is wrong, and why is it more probable that religion and god was created by man, rather than god inspired man to do so. I have recently be reading about memetics, or the study how ideas transmit. And so many other things. These other ideas, are simply answering why atheism is a more rational philosophy than theist philosophy.
Upvote
0
Skeptic,
I am not trying to hurt your feelings OR beat a dead horse. Just curious. Did you come to this forum for a discussion about the evidence for God or to tell Christians why they should not believe? It seems to me like you are using this forum for your own soapbox. It is interesting that you do not have the nerve to tell your parents about your current beliefs and yet you have the courage to come on a Christian forum. Are you trying to change our minds? I have to ask you straight out because I believe you are sending mixed messages. I believe this forum said it was for people struggling with belief who want encouragement--not the other way around.
If you are seriously up for discussion I have another question
I am not trying to hurt your feelings OR beat a dead horse. Just curious. Did you come to this forum for a discussion about the evidence for God or to tell Christians why they should not believe? It seems to me like you are using this forum for your own soapbox. It is interesting that you do not have the nerve to tell your parents about your current beliefs and yet you have the courage to come on a Christian forum. Are you trying to change our minds? I have to ask you straight out because I believe you are sending mixed messages. I believe this forum said it was for people struggling with belief who want encouragement--not the other way around.
If you are seriously up for discussion I have another question
Upvote
0
hikersong
Walkin' and Singin'
Thanks Skeptic. I really enjoyed your account of the way you got to where you are now. It made a lot of sense to me. Don't think I am in exactly the same place, but not too far away. I appreciate honesty, particularly self honesty, wherever it comes from. I was, I think, just as honest when I was your age, but definitely not as objective. It encourages me to hear your story.
Hiker.
Upvote
0
hikersong
Walkin' and Singin'
Skeptic,
I am not trying to hurt your feelings OR beat a dead horse. Just curious. Did you come to this forum for a discussion about the evidence for God or to tell Christians why they should not believe? It seems to me like you are using this forum for your own soapbox. It is interesting that you do not have the nerve to tell your parents about your current beliefs and yet you have the courage to come on a Christian forum. Are you trying to change our minds? I have to ask you straight out because I believe you are sending mixed messages. I believe this forum said it was for people struggling with belief who want encouragement--not the other way around.
If you are seriously up for discussion I have another question
I'm a little bit confused by your response to skeptics's post:
1. Skeptic has told his story. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. Parents are a big subject and, quite often, a scary phenonema. I speak as a child and as a parent.
3. Honesty with oneself takes more courage than anything else, and is the precursor to all other sorts of courage.
4. You are called Woundedsoldier. I know a little about wounds myself. Sometimes they help people understand others, sometimes they become a mark of superiority. You say that you don't wish to hurt, and Skeptic seems, um, less liable to that than I was at his age... but what is really bothering you? I have heard many, many Christian stories which try and provoke fear and guilt in the listener. Skeptic is doing none of that.
5. Could you provide the quote which shows that this forum is for the encouragement of people who are struggling with belief. If that is the case, then you better call in the moderators, because most of the people here seem quite comfortable with the place they are.
Thanks
Hiker
Upvote
0
Yes. Here is the quote. "An open support forum where Christians can offer support to non-Christians." This is the subtitle of the chat room called "Struggles by Non-Christians" where this post was originally located. And this post was moved. I'm not sure why the moderators chose to do that.
But, I have a confession. When I talk to anyone who does not believe the same way as me about Christ I am trying to convince them to change their mind for the very fact that I believe I have the truth. I apologize if this comes across as trying to provoke fear or guilt. I am only trying to share what I believe to be true from my own experience and what I have learned from the Bible. The Bible is full of information that can cause fear, love, hope, guilt, etc. It depends what passage you are reading and with what heart attitude you read it. If my words seem to be argumentative for the sake of arguing, that is not my purpose. If I seem to have an air of superiority that is not my intention either.
"But avoid foolish questions, and geniologies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." Titus 3:9
On a side note, I just saw "The Book of Eli," a hollywood blockbuster movie, with A-list actors, all centered around the epic adventure of a man's jouney that centered around the Bible. Pretty interesting. If you haven't seen it yet you gotta go.
Upvote
0
Skeptic,
I am not trying to hurt your feelings OR beat a dead horse. Just curious. Did you come to this forum for a discussion about the evidence for God or to tell Christians why they should not believe? It seems to me like you are using this forum for your own soapbox. It is interesting that you do not have the nerve to tell your parents about your current beliefs and yet you have the courage to come on a Christian forum. Are you trying to change our minds? I have to ask you straight out because I believe you are sending mixed messages. I believe this forum said it was for people struggling with belief who want encouragement--not the other way around.
If you are seriously up for discussion I have another question
Well I originally posted this in the struggling forum, it was my first day, and I thought it would be most appropriate there because I thought the other forums was for other religions like buddism and islam, which atheism is clearly not another religion. Thankfully a moderator took the initiative to switch this thread to here the non-Christian section.
I am not trying to change opinions, just trying to give my viewpoint, but at times, when responding to these posts, is hard to avoid sounding a bit on the offensive.
Well its tough to tell the harsh truth to my parents and family. As I speak, my entire family is litterally 10 ft from me. I could just stand up and tell everyone that I am an atheist, in matters of seconds. But I choose to not do so, maybe because of the stigmatism, but mainly because I do want to 'shame' my family. Heck maybe today is the day I tell everyone.
Upvote
0
- Aug 30, 2008
- 6,828
- 3,122
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I am assuming this is a ten digit number so I have got 10 digits. I just listened for a flow of numbers, here is what I got, but the last one was a little confusing. I am not sure God has answered but I am hoping it was him.
2487632172
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
