Atheist here (Ask me anything)

[Skeptic90]

Well I don't know were else to post without being disrespectful, but anyways, if you guys have any questions on my disbelief ask away.

I want to give my side of the story and have an honest discussion.


Well I am 19 years old, currently going to a University in the San Diego area. I used to be a Catholic for 19 years, until I started asking answers to myself, I just rationalized that maybe, there is no god. It happened after taking an anthropology class which helped me investigate what I currently believe in. I then studied many other religions and beliefs. I am an atheist, agnostic-atheist if you want to be technical. I am also a group leader of my schools secular/atheist group, and part of the coalition of reason.

So ask away anything you wanted to ask.

 

[nicknack28]

Was there any "straw that broke the camel's back" moment in your self-reflection and studies that pushed you significantly more toward your atheism? Maybe an assignment, something you read or watched, a specific line of reasoning you explored, something that someone said, etc.? I'm rather interested in those sorts of things. I know it's always a combination of many factors but it would be interesting to hear if you had any with particular significance. Please feel free to share any of your story that might accompany your response too.

And of course you have our very warm welcome to the forums! Oh, and there are similar threads (both past and present) in the Non-Christian Religions subsection of the Outreach section of the forums if you've interest in their contents.

 

[brinny]

Well I don't know were else to post without being disrespectful, but anyways, if you guys have any questions on my disbelief ask away.

I want to give my side of the story and have an honest discussion.


Well I am 19 years old, currently going to a University in the San Diego area. I used to be a Catholic for 19 years, until I started asking answers to myself, I just rationalized that maybe, there is no god. It happened after taking an anthropology class which helped me investigate what I currently believe in. I then studied many other religions and beliefs. I am an atheist, agnostic-atheist if you want to be technical. I am also a group leader of my schools secular/atheist group, and part of the coalition of reason.

So ask away anything you wanted to ask.

How did life begin?

 

[Skeptic90]

Was there any "straw that broke the camel's back" moment in your self-reflection and studies that pushed you significantly more toward your atheism? Maybe an assignment, something you read or watched, a specific line of reasoning you explored, something that someone said, etc.? I'm rather interested in those sorts of things. I know it's always a combination of many factors but it would be interesting to hear if you had any with particular significance. Please feel free to share any of your story that might accompany your response too.

And of course you have our very warm welcome to the forums! Oh, and there are similar threads (both past and present) in the Non-Christian Religions subsection of the Outreach section of the forums if you've interest in their contents.

Well there wasn't any strictly one thing that change my mind. It just flowed together, and it was a very slow transition. I used to be a catholic, which was almost exactly a year ago, since the first week of January. Well for 18 years I never questioned my religious beliefs with my scientific beliefs. I went to school, learned about science and history, and I went home and I read the bible and went to saturday 'church school'. So after I left home and went to college, I took various classes like anthropology and rhetoric writing and argument, which I had to read and learn about differing opinions, and evaluate and make an argument of the case. So I first applied it to my political beliefs. With all the presidential debates and news, I became almost addicted at politics, really exciting. So after reading a bit of political philosophy like plato and others, I slowly shifted my political mentality from a conservative to a constitutionalist/libertarian ideaology, jefforsonian. So then after much reading I became a moderate, took ideas from each side, like progressive taxing, and ACLU ideas, and more oversight of goverment by the people and so on.

After, a day before I started my second semester of college, I was bored and I went to my usual channels which are discovery/science/history channels. So there was this film on early human civilization, like farming, politics, and so on. Then at one segment, there was how religion started. That got me thinking. I asked, what if religion is just a human made idea? So then I started reading more on religions and did as I did before with politics, look at both sides and see which one make more logical sense. Then I asked, could god be human made too? an idea? So after a few weeks, I became an agnostic. I believed that god may or may not be real, we don't know really. Atheists don't have any evidence sayng there is no god, as well as all the theists with their god(s). So I was like its either there is a god or isn't. So it equally as wrong to say there is or there isn't. Then I remembered that there could be one, two, three, or more gods, or gods with diffrent ideas, so which religion is right, or which interpertation of god is right? So then the odds were realistically not 50/50, more like 1 in an infinity. So I became an agnostic-atheist, or atheist for short. There is a possibility there is a god, very small, but unlikely. So therefore I don't believe, I am an atheist. Atheism: lack of belief of the existence of a god(s). Agnosticism: Lack of knowledge of the existance of a god(s)
and finally I am a skeptic, one who questions, and seeker of the more probable and logical truth.

So what really made me an atheist? Math.

 

[Skeptic90]

How did life begin?

Well life one earth? Well for short, I don't know, and no one really knows for certain. I say that because we don't know, we must find out how it happened, we must go out and find out how it really happened. Its like trying to figure out what did you get for Christmas. So many possibilities. Saying biogenisis is logical, but there is no hard proof. Saying god did it is both illogical and no proof as well. Its like saying a fairy or santa did it. So I do not accept either theory just yet, until provided with substantial and repeatable evidence.

So to answer your question, I don't know.

 

[brinny]

Well life one earth? Well for short, I don't know, and no one really knows for certain. I say that because we don't know, we must find out how it happened, we must go out and find out how it really happened. Its like trying to figure out what did you get for Christmas. So many possibilities. Saying biogenisis is logical, but there is no hard proof. Saying god did it is both illogical and no proof as well. Its like saying a fairy or santa did it. So I do not accept either theory just yet, until provided with substantial and repeatable evidence.

So to answer your question, I don't know.

Then how can you know if God exists?

 

[nicknack28]

Skeptic, thank you so much for your story. It's always interesting reading how such transitions occur regardless of what kind it is. That and listening to someone's story always makes discussions closer to home. It makes reading text more like having a conversation -- it gives a little needed warmth.

This question is also rather open-ended but I'd find it equally interesting: what would most effectively convince you that a god exists (or gods exist)? And further, what would most effectively convince you that this hypothesized god (if singular) is the Christian god?

Those questions could have been worded less technical-sounding but I tried.

 

[Skeptic90]

Then how can you know if God exists?

I don't, same logic. I don't have any evidence showing me there is or there isn't a god, same way I don't have any evidence for a genie or superman.

So from the lack of evidence, I do not believe. I do not say I am certain there is no god, I just because of the overwhelming lack of evidence, I don't believe.

Thats why people say that religious people, no offence, are delusional. Same way you would say someone who believes that his dog talks and the dog is able to do advance mathematics is delusional.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Then how can you know if God exists?

I don't, same logic. I don't have any evidence showing me there is or there isn't a god, same way I don't have any evidence for a genie or superman.

So from the lack of evidence, I do not believe. I do not say I am certain there is no god, I just because of the overwhelming lack of evidence, I don't believe.

Thats why people say that religious people, no offence, are delusional. Same way you would say someone who believes that his dog talks and the dog is able to do advance mathematics is delusional.

What kind of evidence would indicate there is a God?

 

[Skeptic90]

Skeptic, thank you so much for your story. It's always interesting reading how such transitions occur regardless of what kind it is. That and listening to someone's story always makes discussions closer to home. It makes reading text more like having a conversation -- it gives a little needed warmth.

This question is also rather open-ended but I'd find it equally interesting: what would most effectively convince you that a god exists (or gods exist)? And further, what would most effectively convince you that this hypothesized god (if singular) is the Christian god?

Those questions could have been worded less technical-sounding but I tried.

Well the standards for a judeo christian god are very improbable. A more probable god would be an unconscious god. Close to the 'theory of everything" god, that unifies all the natural laws of the universe. But that would be emotionally unsatisfying, praying to gravity or thermodynamics. It would be like praying to a bottle of ketchup. Also heaven and hell in also nearly impossible as the judeo christian god. It would be nice there is a heaven, but that's another story.

Well the only way that would convince me there is a judeo christian god is to simply reveal himself to me and the world, also show the things Christians claim he does.

So what would convince me? They coming out and doing their god thing. If god just presents himself to me, and not to anyone else, then more than likely, I am having hallucinations and I am a schizophrenic.

The first thing we must figure out what is god? which standards must it comply to be considered a god, so when we see it, we could say that is god. Then after that is decided, then have a testable and reliable evidence that proves that god(s).

 

[Skeptic90]

What kind of evidence would indicate there is a God?

I hope the answer I gave one post before this answers it.

 

[nicknack28]

Would you view somebody else losing their faith (becoming an atheist) for purely emotional reasons positively or negatively? Or would that affect your view of that person in any way?

Actually I thought of a better question but the former one still stands if you're interested. Do you feel compelled to share your lines of reasoning that support your atheism with others who are religious, such as in attempt to change their religious views?

 

[Skeptic90]

Would you view somebody else losing their faith (becoming an atheist) for purely emotional reasons positively or negatively? Or would that affect your view of that person in any way?

Actually I thought of a better question but the former one still stands if you're interested. Do you feel compelled to share your lines of reasoning that support your atheism with others who are religious, such as in attempt to change their religious views?

Well for emotional reasons, I would view it negatively. Atheism shouldn't come from emotional reasons, and if people do, I don't view them as true atheists. Sure they will disbelief, but for the wrong reasons. It should be a logical decision in my opinion. I had the exact same thought half a year ago. Because there are so many former 'atheists' that just became atheist because they were mad at their god or had a bad experience from their religion, or just want to be a rebel.

That is not what being an atheist should be about. Atheism is not anti-religion, anti-god, or love sin kind of idea. Its simply a stand point saying that I don't think there is a god, just simply. Sure most atheist have their dislikes of religions or specific parts of it, but that should not be the main focus.

Atheism frees the mind from superstition. You are free to believe what you want.

How will that affect them? well like I said before, more than likely, they have the wrong idea of what an atheist really is. I have talked to a few former atheists, and the story is similar. They go and bash religion and some of them did a few 'sinful' things. Then after, they went back to being religious as if atheism is like being a child.



Now for the second question. I do not make arguments against god to change anyones beliefs. I do feel compelled to share, just like people publish their scientific papers just to spread knowledge and also I love talking to people and sharing my ideas.

If people loose their belief from a result of what I said, so be it. I believe people have the freedom to choose what they want to believe. If they want to believe in some alien god or some superman or spiderman, so be it.

This is freedom, we have the ability to make choices. I think people who believe in god are a bit delusional, but thats just my personal opinion.

A month ago or so I was part of roup who put up one of those signs that say "Don't believe in god? you are not alone". The purpose for his billboard was both to reach out to other non-believers and to get people actually talking about the topic. Have discourse. I will not be pushing my beliefs down anyones throats, but if they choose to hear my side and actually discuss things, well great.

At the end the only thing that matters is that we behave good and just become the best we can be for ourselves and the world we live in.

 

[DannyOcean]

brinny, here is a list of things that would convert me on the spot. I stole this from another atheist's musings, but I don't think he'd mind.

*Aliens who believed in the same religion. I would convert on the spot.

*Miraculous occurrences that would be statistically near-impossible. I'm talking about something like lighting striking atheists and only atheists for a sufficiently long period of time so as for it to be impossible to be chance. Or perhaps a independently run study, not affiliated with any religion, double-blind, scientifically sound, sufficiently large in population and repeatable, that showed that one religion's prayer really did heal people.

*An amputee that regrew a limb. Everyone talks about how god can heal sickness or disease. Why has god never once healed an amputee? If an amputee miraculously regrew a limb and credited it to a particular religion, I would convert.

*Direct manifestation of the divine. I would have to see God, in the presence of multiple reliable witnesses who I knew were not under the influence of drugs, in a hysterical emotional state, etc.

*Crystal Clear scientific knowledge that was not available at the time. I'm not talking about things like where the bible hints at a round earth because A: that passage is vague and B: The greeks already knew that. I'm talking about if Jesus had said something like "Verily, I say unto thee, energy is equal to the product of thine mass upon the speed of light by itself". Maybe a discussion of quantum physics. It would have to be non-vague and have to be verified as written long before such knowledge could have been possible.

These are the things that would make me convert.

 

[nicknack28]

Again, you have my sincere thanks for each of your posts that you've given such consideration.

I have heard the suggestion many times that the term "atheist" is completely unnecessary because it describes only a position of non-belief. The example often used (by many atheists against atheism) is that nobody uses terms like a-astrologist (again describing the non-belief in something). The opposite position would suggest that the term "atheist" is useful because often it describes a minority position. If it described a majority position then it wouldn't have any use.

Do you agree with either of these positions?

 

[brinny]

Would you view somebody else losing their faith (becoming an atheist) for purely emotional reasons positively or negatively? Or would that affect your view of that person in any way?

Actually I thought of a better question but the former one still stands if you're interested. Do you feel compelled to share your lines of reasoning that support your atheism with others who are religious, such as in attempt to change their religious views?

no, neither negatively or positively. i have not always believed in God. i do not believe it is my mission to change someone's mind. i believe only the Holy Spirit can do that.

 

[brinny]

brinny, here is a list of things that would convert me on the spot. I stole this from another atheist's musings, but I don't think he'd mind.

*Aliens who believed in the same religion. I would convert on the spot.

*Miraculous occurrences that would be statistically near-impossible. I'm talking about something like lighting striking atheists and only atheists for a sufficiently long period of time so as for it to be impossible to be chance. Or perhaps a independently run study, not affiliated with any religion, double-blind, scientifically sound, sufficiently large in population and repeatable, that showed that one religion's prayer really did heal people.

*An amputee that regrew a limb. Everyone talks about how god can heal sickness or disease. Why has god never once healed an amputee? If an amputee miraculously regrew a limb and credited it to a particular religion, I would convert.

*Direct manifestation of the divine. I would have to see God, in the presence of multiple reliable witnesses who I knew were not under the influence of drugs, in a hysterical emotional state, etc.

*Crystal Clear scientific knowledge that was not available at the time. I'm not talking about things like where the bible hints at a round earth because A: that passage is vague and B: The greeks already knew that. I'm talking about if Jesus had said something like "Verily, I say unto thee, energy is equal to the product of thine mass upon the speed of light by itself". Maybe a discussion of quantum physics. It would have to be non-vague and have to be verified as written long before such knowledge could have been possible.

These are the things that would make me convert.

Aah i so appreciate your responses. Forgive my chuckle with the first one. There have been more times than i can count that i have asked God the same questions..at least some of them. Yet, everyone must walk their journey in this dimension, this temporary life, on their own. Believing or not believing in God must be an individual conviction. Only the Holy Spirit can prompt someone to believe in a God that cannot be seen by the human eye. It is not possible without faith. Faith only comes from God through the Holy Spirit.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by nicknack28
Skeptic, thank you so much for your story. It's always interesting reading how such transitions occur regardless of what kind it is. That and listening to someone's story always makes discussions closer to home. It makes reading text more like having a conversation -- it gives a little needed warmth.

This question is also rather open-ended but I'd find it equally interesting: what would most effectively convince you that a god exists (or gods exist)? And further, what would most effectively convince you that this hypothesized god (if singular) is the Christian god?

Those questions could have been worded less technical-sounding but I tried.

Well the standards for a judeo christian god are very improbable. A more probable god would be an unconscious god. Close to the 'theory of everything" god, that unifies all the natural laws of the universe. But that would be emotionally unsatisfying, praying to gravity or thermodynamics. It would be like praying to a bottle of ketchup. Also heaven and hell in also nearly impossible as the judeo christian god. It would be nice there is a heaven, but that's another story.

Well the only way that would convince me there is a judeo christian god is to simply reveal himself to me and the world, also show the things Christians claim he does.

So what would convince me? They coming out and doing their god thing. If god just presents himself to me, and not to anyone else, then more than likely, I am having hallucinations and I am a schizophrenic.

The first thing we must figure out what is god? which standards must it comply to be considered a god, so when we see it, we could say that is god. Then after that is decided, then have a testable and reliable evidence that proves that god(s).

It is written that God is the living God. It is written that He is Creator. It is also written that He is holy. It is also written that this holy God so loved us that He gave His only begotten Son to be the scape-goat for us, so to speak, because He loves us so much. It is also written that He rejoices over us with singing. It is written that His joy will be ours.

I can attest to that

the bottom line, however is that, in this dimension we exist in, God is not visible. It is not possible to believe in this God, Who is invisible to the naked eye, without the prompting of His holy Spirit. It is not possible to believe in this God without faith. Faith only comes from the Holy spirit.

This God cannot be placed under a microscope.

 

[nicknack28]

the bottom line, however is that, in this dimension we exist in, God is not visible. It is not possible to believe in this God, Who is invisible to the naked eye, without the prompting of His holy Spirit. It is not possible to believe in this God without faith. Faith only comes from the Holy spirit.

This God cannot be placed under a microscope.

I might be derailing this for just a quick moment, asking the theist rather than the atheist a question, but hopefully nobody minds.

Brinny, I know that you don't necessarily imply this in your post but many theists seem to imply that not being able to "know" the Christian god except through faith via the Holy Spirit (God not being able to be put under a microscope) is a good thing. I do not understand this. Wouldn't putting an end to all religious debates by proving his existence with such displays be a good thing? Then all could believe in him, be confident and sincere in it, and go home happy enjoying the newfound or reassured fellowship they have with the Lord. Why is this requirement for the Holy Spirit to jump-start your belief (rather than your own observations doing so) good?

I only ask this in honest curiosity.

 

[Skeptic90]

Again, you have my sincere thanks for each of your posts that you've given such consideration.

I have heard the suggestion many times that the term "atheist" is completely unnecessary because it describes only a position of non-belief. The example often used (by many atheists against atheism) is that nobody uses terms like a-astrologist (again describing the non-belief in something). The opposite position would suggest that the term "atheist" is useful because often it describes a minority position. If it described a majority position then it wouldn't have any use.

Do you agree with either of these positions?

Well I do. I had the same exact discussion in my last club meeting. I just feel that being called atheist is like saying that you are abnormal. The word atheist when used around Christians, is a dirty word like you have a disease or something. Everyone is born an agnostic. Until we stumble upon the idea of god, we either become atheist or or sort of theist. Being called an atheist should become, in my opinion, like being called an a-astrologist like you said.

Well yes exactly for the second part, thats why the word even exists. A word to define our position, or label, so it could be easily understood by the majority.