Atheist here (Ask me anything)

[ephraimanesti]

So, like I was saying, any further questions/comments/ concerns?

MY BROTHER,

Well, yeah, one little thing. Why don't all the atheists in this country who are offended by prayers in the schools, Christ-Mass trees in the Malls, the ringing of Church bells on Sunday morning, "In God We Trust" on the currency, the Ten Commandments in the courtrooms, etc. get together, save up their money, and migrate to a location more appropriate and hospitable to their lack-of-belief-system and its resultant darkness, as well as their easily offended egos--for example to The Peoples' Republic of China, North Korea, or a similar santuary providing respite from all that "God business" which atheists find so offensive.

i guarantee that atheists will be greated with open arms and that total happiness awaits! Why not go for it?

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Skeptic90]

MY BROTHER,

Well, yeah, one little thing. Why don't all the atheists in this country who are offended by prayers in the schools, Christ-Mass trees in the Malls, the ringing of Church bells on Sunday morning, "In God We Trust" on the currency, the Ten Commandments in the courtrooms, etc. get together, save up their money, and migrate to a location more appropriate and hospitable to their lack-of-belief-system and its resultant darkness, as well as their easily offended egos--for example to The Peoples' Republic of China, North Korea, or a similar santuary providing respite from all that "God business" which atheists find so offensive.

i guarantee that atheists will be greated with open arms and that total happiness awaits! Why not go for it?

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Well the reason for this is because of the constitution. I, personally, am a bit of a constitutionalist. Derived from the first amendment of the Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .". This is were the separation of church and state comes in. This nation was founded as a secular nation, a nation of all beliefs. This is one of the few places in the world were a minority religion or even a major one can practice their beliefs. The other thing about this is that people are free to do anything as long it does infringe upon anyone else's rights.

Not for separation of church and state, we must realize that christianity is not the only belief in the united states. We also have thousands of other belief systems. What would be your opinion if muslims started to post their religious symbols in your town halls, and pasting a few verses around the capital building. Or heck, all religions, including the satanists starting the same thing around public buildings. So to be fair, and what our founding fathers noted, is that we should build a nation where all religions can practice and no religion is the 'official' religion. If we had Christianity as the official religion, we will be discriminating against other beliefs. We would be a theocracy, like other countries like north korea and china.

Thomas Jefferson once said in a letter to the Virginia Baptists:

"We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries."


Now what did Jesus say?

"Jesus answered (Pilate), 'My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight (to defend him), ...' " - John 18:36 -- why "Christian nation" cannot be an official position, opponents maintain, i.e., there are only Christian people, possibly in Christian communities. Beyond that are the "things which are Caesar's" - Matthew 22:21"




So, back to the core of the question. Us atheists do not want to remove your god or any other god and beliefs from public spaces because we hate god and religion, it is simply because we must protect this freedom of religion, and keep this nation as a nation of all beliefs, which none should be infringed upon or the other way around. This is why the separation of church and state is so vital. You can do anything you wish in your own private properties, but once you get to public places which are funded by people of all faiths and non-beliefs, then there is a problem.

Do you have any further comments/questions?

 

[hikersong]

This nation was founded as a secular nation, a nation of all beliefs. This is one of the few places in the world were a minority religion or even a major one can practice their beliefs. The other thing about this is that people are free to do anything as long it does infringe upon anyone else's rights.

Well, I admire your optimism and national pride...but "free to do anything as long as it does (not, i presume) infringe upon anyone else's rights"??? Not what I've heard...can I come and light up a joint...could I marry whoever I chose (male or female)...can I go for a walk anywhere without carry a big heavy bear depriving food cannister...ummm...can I have a drink before I'm 21...

...you get the point I hope. Even with the first examples that come into my head, it seems that my own rights are going to get infringed upon quite quickly. Not that the US is the only place that this happens, but let's not exaggerate.

As for other peoples rights. Glad they're protected in the US. Shame that it appears to be legal for US citizens to infringe the rights of people outside the US. Again, my own country has been guilty of the same thing, but lets get rid of the rose coloured specs towards our respective places of birth.

ps I fully support this part of your rebuttal to Ephraimanesti though:

"Us atheists do not want to remove your god or any other god and beliefs from public spaces because we hate god and religion, it is simply because we must protect this freedom of religion, and keep this nation as a nation of all beliefs, which none should be infringed upon or the other way around. This is why the separation of church and state is so vital. You can do anything you wish in your own private properties, but once you get to public places which are funded by people of all faiths and non-beliefs, then there is a problem."

 

[Skeptic90]

Well, I admire your optimism and national pride...but "free to do anything as long as it does (not, i presume) infringe upon anyone else's rights"??? Not what I've heard...can I come and light up a joint...could I marry whoever I chose (male or female)...can I go for a walk anywhere without carry a big heavy bear depriving food cannister...ummm...can I have a drink before I'm 21...

...you get the point I hope. Even with the first examples that come into my head, it seems that my own rights are going to get infringed upon quite quickly. Not that the US is the only place that this happens, but let's not exaggerate.

As for other peoples rights. Glad they're protected in the US. Shame that it appears to be legal for US citizens to infringe the rights of people outside the US. Again, my own country has been guilty of the same thing, but lets get rid of the rose coloured specs towards our respective places of birth.

Completely agree with you. I understand we are not perfect, or even close to it, but we must always be optimistic.

I also understand of the situation over at the UK, which is a bit similar like we have here. Corporate police, cctv cameras in every corner watching your every move, the right of protest is virtually eliminated because of 'corporate rights', so on and so one.

If we simply become passive, and don't speak up, well at any opportunity, they will be eliminated. So sure we could accept our situation, and say that things are completely fine, but, as john locke and many other influential thinkers have said, we must be educated and ready to defend our rights.

Books won't stay banned -
Ideas won't go to jail.
~Alfred Whitney Griswold

 

[ephraimanesti]

Thomas Jefferson once said in a letter to the Virginia Baptists:

"We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries."

MY DEAR BROTHER,

More to the point, Jefferson also rightly observed, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a convicvtion that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)

So, back to the core of the question. Us atheists do not want to remove your god or any other god and beliefs from public spaces because we hate god and religion, it is simply because we must protect this freedom of religion, and keep this nation as a nation of all beliefs, which none should be infringed upon or the other way around. This is why the separation of church and state is so vital. You can do anything you wish in your own private properties, but once you get to public places which are funded by people of all faiths and non-beliefs, then there is a problem.

Do you have any further comments/questions?

Well, yeah. Given Jefferson's popularity among atheists for his supposedly strident stand against any mingling of church and state, you might check out the facts as evidenced by his actions, rather than engage in meaningless rhetoric regarding Jefferson's beliefs regarding the so-called "wall of separation" between Church and state. For example, he wrote a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush on April 21, 1802, in which he wrote that his views "are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions."

As far as his actions illustrating his beliefs are concerned, the following are several examples,

When Jefferson wrote the first plan of education adopted by the District of Columbia, he used the Bible and Isaac Watt's hymnal as the principal texts for teaching reading to public school students.

Jefferson, while in office, sanctioned the use of the Capitol building for church Services.

Jefferson recommended that Congress provide $100 from the federal treasury every year for the futherance of a Catholic missionary priest to the Kaskaskia Indian Tribe.

In other words, Jefferson's belief system is a far cry that that which atheists try to represent as they carry on their crusade of whinning and railing against their Creator and Benefactor and His rightful place in our public forums.

Benefactor? you ask. Well, in the Jefferson Memorial on Panel One in the dome, is the famous passage from the Declaration of Independence which states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

So, the question arises in my mind, if atheists reject even the very existence of their Creator, why should they enjoy the rights He has bestowed. As the old adage goes, "Why should the one who beats the cow drink the milk." i'm not anti-atheist--as far as i am concern they are more than welcome to grope blindly around in the darkness of their choice--i'm just saying . . . .

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Skeptic90]

MY DEAR BROTHER,

More to the point, Jefferson also rightly observed, "God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a convicvtion that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." (Notes on the State of Virginia, 1785)




Well, yeah. Given Jefferson's popularity among atheists for his supposedly strident stand against any mingling of church and state, you might check out the facts as evidenced by his actions, rather than engage in meaningless rhetoric regarding Jefferson's beliefs regarding the so-called "wall of separation" between Church and state. For example, he wrote a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush on April 21, 1802, in which he wrote that his views "are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions."

Remember, he was a deist, he didn't believe in the Christian version of a god, more of a natural god. He was also a materialist, like most of us atheists.

As far as his actions illustrating his beliefs are concerned, the following are several examples,

When Jefferson wrote the first plan of education adopted by the District of Columbia, he used the Bible and Isaac Watt's hymnal as the principal texts for teaching reading to public school students.

Jefferson, while in office, sanctioned the use of the Capitol building for church Services.

Jefferson recommended that Congress provide $100 from the federal treasury every year for the futherance of a Catholic missionary priest to the Kaskaskia Indian Tribe.

In other words, Jefferson's belief system is a far cry that that which atheists try to represent as they carry on their crusade of whinning and railing against their Creator and Benefactor and His rightful place in our public forums.

Benefactor? you ask. Well, in the Jefferson Memorial on Panel One in the dome, is the famous passage from the Declaration of Independence which states, "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

So, the question arises in my mind, if atheists reject even the very existence of their Creator, why should they enjoy the rights He has bestowed. As the old adage goes, "Why should the one who beats the cow drink the milk." i'm not anti-atheist--as far as i am concern they are more than welcome to grope blindly around in the darkness of their choice--i'm just saying . . . .

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Well yes, my creators, who are my mom and dad, I do believe in them, but I do now know if they gave me the rights.

Also that is assuming, with certainty, that god is real. I am uncertain that god, or any other deity imagined by man, is real. So saying that I am deluted because I do not believe in something that no one has any evidence for, then I say that those who are certain are deluted.

Denial of god in part of us, is saying that gods existance is a fact. Well it is a reality for some, it is not for all.

Just because a few things say that god is real, and he gave us our rights and so on, it doesn't break the reality of things. The facts are that we do have the seperation of church and state, we have the constitution, and we have the supreme court who can interpret to you and the rest of the citizenry that that is the law of the land.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You guys trying to get this moved to the politics forum?

 

[hikersong]

You guys trying to get this moved to the politics forum?

Hey, don't go putting ideas in heads!

 

[teaspill]

Ever bashed your head against a desk reeeally hard when you see something that seriously Does Not Compute?

 

[hikersong]

Ever bashed your head against a desk reeeally hard when you see something that seriously Does Not Compute?

Well, I once bashed my head against a sink because I thought that I didn't compute. Not a very clever thing to do...but does that count?

Welcome, to the Non-Christian section of the forum btw. And erm, what isn't computing?

 

[Skeptic90]

Ever bashed your head against a desk reeeally hard when you see something that seriously Does Not Compute?

No I have not lol. When that happens I go in like a dream state just concentrating on what I have missed or what not. Then if that doesn't work, then I sometimes slap myself, go to the gym or something, then tangent different ideas and go day dreaming till I find a possible solution. If all fails, then I go play a game, watch a few youtube clips on the topic, or I go to sleep, and hopefully tomorrow it does.

 

[teaspill]

Welcome, to the Non-Christian section of the forum btw. And erm, what isn't computing?

That's part of what I was asking. ^^ Anything, really, that just doesn't compute. It wasn't a particularly serious question, I was just poking fun at logic fail in general. >.>

 

[hikersong]

That's part of what I was asking. ^^ Anything, really, that just doesn't compute. It wasn't a particularly serious question, I was just poking fun at logic fail in general. >.>

Thought you might have been but usually round here I tentatively assume someone is serious, because it's less awkward if you get it wrong about someone that way round.

and one for luck

Which is my way of agreeing with you.

 

[Ayersy]

So, the question arises in my mind, if atheists reject even the very existence of their Creator, why should they enjoy the rights He has bestowed. As the old adage goes, "Why should the one who beats the cow drink the milk." i'm not anti-atheist--as far as i am concern they are more than welcome to grope blindly around in the darkness of their choice--i'm just saying . . . .

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Dou-ble stan-dards, WAAAAAH, WAAAAAH!

I'm pretty certain if I described theists in such a way, people would take offense to it, how comes it's okay for such things to be said about atheists?!

 

[Mela Monkey]

I don't, same logic. I don't have any evidence showing me there is or there isn't a god, same way I don't have any evidence for a genie or superman.

So from the lack of evidence, I do not believe. I do not say I am certain there is no god, I just because of the overwhelming lack of evidence, I don't believe.

That's why people say things like "Faith in God,"why people have faith that he is real, so I see where your disbelief comes from so yea.. there probably is not a bit of scientifical evidence to him existing, which is .

I personally just don't see how everything could have happened by chance though. Like, when you look at humans compared to all the other animals on Earth, we dominate them all in intelligence. So, if nature did everything by itself, then why would only one thing (humans) be so far ahead than all other animals in intelligence? I mean.. to me, it seems that if evolution and all that actually happened, we wouldn't be the only ones with super smart brains. (sorry if that's all confusing)

 

[hikersong]

I mean.. to me, it seems that if evolution and all that actually happened, we wouldn't be the only ones with super smart brains. (sorry if that's all confusing)

We are at a particular point in time. Maybe in the future we won't be the only ones with the "super smart brains" you mention.

ps...If you get hold of any (super smart brains that is) could you sell me one?

 

[Mela Monkey]

ps...If you get hold of any (super smart brains that is) could you sell me one?

If you're smarter than a dog, you already have one

 

[hikersong]

If you're smarter than a dog, you already have one

Now there's a question I might not want to know the answer to!

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I read a bit, the first parts that you posted, and see that you have been drawn away from God becuse you could see no evidence of Gods existance. Well I have had encounters with God that proove to me his existance and I will share them here with you; so that you have the same chance of believing in God as I do. The following are all true stories (and there are more that I have not included) of God working physically in the real world, through and in my life.

One morning I got up and walked into the hall and I heard a voice say "How would you like to be stabbed in the Valley". The Valley was the rough end of town, and the voice scared me a little, I wondered if I had done something to offend God. I had planned to go down to the Valley to ask people out to church as was my habit at the time. In the end I went anyway regardless of the fear. I walked up to the first person I met and asked him if he would like to go out to church. He said to me "I am an atheist, I don't believe in God". I just said "fine", but hoped to change his mind. He then proceeded to unbutton his shirt and showed me scar marks up and down his chest and stomach. He said to me, "I was attacked by a knife wielding man in the Valley some time ago and spent months recovering in hospital, How could God allow that to happen to me". Then I knew why God had said in the morning "How would I like to be stabbed?". God understood this man, but had a good plan for him. Some weeks latter this man came out to church and became a Christian.

Some time after the second Gulf War an Australian man Douglas Wood was captured by terrorists in Iraq, who made demands for a ransom or he would be executed. I set about fasting and praying for his release, I said to God "You know where he is....tell me". Three words entered my mind ABC, Bizaar and "A-meal". I thought "I am going crazy what has all that got to do with him. Bizaar I though "this is Bizarre". I thought maybe "A-meal" is a town so I searched a map of Iraq for a town of that name, but found nothing that really matched. Some time latter Douglas Wood was freed by US troops who came across his captors. It was not until latter that I actually discovered what the three words meant. I was on a forum libertyunites.us and came across a post by a user called ABC in the post she appealed to the captors to release Douglas Wood because he had gone to a/or the Bazaar and bought food for homeless people and had provided them with "A-meal". I believe God saw this action too and blessed Douglas Wood with an escape from his captors.

One time I thought about suing some one but felt bad about it because I did not want to give a bad impression about what a Christian is like. So I prayed and asked God to show me clearly what to do. Latter that day I opened my bible at random, selecting a random verse and it opened to 1Co 6:7 "Nay, already it is altogether a defect in you, that ye have lawsuits one with another. Why not rather take wrong? why not rather be defrauded?" So I knew what God was thinking, no lawsuit. From this I don not believe God was saying all law suits are wrong just this one was.

At one point in my life I was praying for scientific cures for illnesses like cancer. Because I was on a science kick I thought would it not be fun to create a real life dinosaur. I wanted Jesus just for fun to show me how to create a Real Live Dinosaur, he can show us anything you know if he wants, but when I asked him how to start recreating a Dinosaur. Jesus spoke into my head the sentence "bood, a term I had never heard before. I decided to look it up on the Internet and I found out the following: You see, the children of Semai are taught from an early age, the concept of "bood." If a parent asks a child to do something and the child replies " bood," it means in other words, "I don't feel like doing that," and the matter is closed. Bood means gently No.

One day I was witnessing to a Muslim and he asked me why we ate pork. I used the verse out of the bible which says "It is not what enters the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of the mouth". After some general discussion I finished for the night. I asked God to give me a verse from the bible to encourage me. I opened the bible at random and selected a random verse. It opened to the exact same verse that I had used with the Muslim. The one about food not defiling. So I knew that God was approving of what I had been talking about.
"What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him "unclean.'"- Mat 15:11

 

[Eudaimonist]

I'd appreciate it if this topic not be used for dumping religious spam.


eudaimonia,

Mark