Atheism

[light upon light]

different personalities is all friend. on my team there is lots of nice chaps who turn into different people on the field.

That's one of the main reasons I stopped.

I couldn't abide the kind of person I became on the court.

 

[dlamberth]

Why can't it be both? I believe that Christ saves, but His teachings on love are also to be followed here on Earth. You're creating a false dichotomy.

My take, I think that Light is spot on.

Yes, it can be both, that's the ideal. But in actual practice I see the over riding focus of Christianity to be about Heaven and how to get there. The Love aspect gets second fiddle at best. I've been told it's way too Hindu like when you really start getting deeply into the Love aspect of the Divine experience. I'm also told it's better to just believe the Love of God than to get very deeply into it because if you do you open your brain to all sorts demons.

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[oi_antz]

If a person I did not like had a flat tire on the side of the road and they needed help, I would help them.

Then you do care for them.

If the person I hated had a flat tire I likely would not help them.

Then you do not care for them.

If the person I hated dropped in front of me with cardiac arrest, I would help them, because that is how I roll.

I bet you that in certain circumstances you would not, because your hate would be great enough to prevent you from doing it.

You have just agreed with my closing premise, that hate is the emotion that causes us to not care for someone. Do you think this is not true? BTW, your expression "to care for someone" means something quite different to you than what I am reading it to mean.

 

[Supreme]

My take, I think that Light is spot on.

Yes, it can be both, that's the ideal. But in actual practice I see the over riding focus of Christianity to be about Heaven and how to get there. The Love aspect gets second fiddle at best. I've been told it's way too Hindu like when you really start getting deeply into the Love aspect of the Divine experience. I'm also told it's better to just believe the Love of God than to get very deeply into it because if you do you open your brain to all sorts demons.

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Certainly, this isn't true in much of my experience. I've sat through just as many sermons on Jesus's messages of love, peace and mercy as I have on Heaven.

 

[dlamberth]

Certainly, this isn't true in much of my experience. I've sat through just as many sermons on Jesus's messages of love, peace and mercy as I have on Heaven.

There are sermons about love, yes. But what about beyond that?

In my experience, all I hear about is getting to Heaven, and I'm a heathen.

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[bhsmte]

Then you do care for them.

Then you do not care for them.

I bet you that in certain circumstances you would not, because your hate would be great enough to prevent you from doing it.

You have just agreed with my closing premise, that hate is the emotion that causes us to not care for someone. Do you think this is not true? BTW, your expression "to care for someone" means something quite different to you than what I am reading it to mean.

If you hate someone, you are much less likely to want to care for them, no question.

But, I disagree with your assumption that I would let the person I hate die without aid during cardiac arrest. My conscious would not allow me to do that and would overwhelm my hate for the person.

 

[Supreme]

There are sermons about love, yes. But what about beyond that?

In my experience, all I hear about is getting to Heaven, and I'm a heathen.

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Well, perhaps you haven't been exposed as much to Christian activity, being a non-Christian yourself. This would not be surprising.

 

[light upon light]

Supreme because you are one of the most levelheaded and openhearted traditional Christians on the forum, I'd love to hear your take on my post 272. Do you agree / disagree in full or in part?

See: http://www.christianforums.com/t7821401-28/#post65656279

 

[dlamberth]

Well, perhaps you haven't been exposed as much to Christian activity, being a non-Christian yourself. This would not be surprising.

I was raised Presbyterian and in the first years of my marriage my wife and I went to a 4 Square Church. This subject that you and I are discussing is the very issue that I struggled with for quite some time as I went through the de-convertion process. It wasn't until I left the Church and went through a spiritual quest that I felt that I had found a place where I discovered what the Love of Christ is. And, where I was able to see the Divine with in others.

During my church days I never knew about sitting in the skin of Christ to see what I could see and the Love that He is from His perspective. It was always a sermon about Christ, never the experiential aspect of what Christ is. The idea of exploring how Christ meditated never came up. I had never heard of wearing the Heart of Christ and exploring what that is like and experiencing the depths of Christ from that angle. I'd never heard about what Jesus was feeling when He was crucified and the Love there. The list goes on and on. It was always about the blood and salvation...Oh ya...and that God loves me because He gave His only begotten Son to save me.

Maybe you can tell from my comments that I honestly feel that Jesus Christ and the Church are two completely different things that only occasionally cross paths. And that's sad to me because I honestly do feel that if the Church actually took up the Heart of Christ in a deep and meaningful manor that today there would be a lot less war, famine, greed, homelessness, ecological mess and a lot more medical access for all along with love, compassion and service for those in need through out the world and humanity.


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[oi_antz]

Anyone who lives from love, service, kindness and compassion is indeed saved, both before and after the death of their physical body.

Can you explain to me what you think such a person is saved from in the afterlife?

 

[oi_antz]

If you hate someone, you are much less likely to want to care for them, no question.

So I am wondering if the lack of care for someone is always due to hate.

But, I disagree with your assumption that I would let the person I hate die without aid during cardiac arrest. My conscious would not allow me to do that and would overwhelm my hate for the person.

Probably, but given the right training and the right motive to see the person die, you might not be so caring. I would put my money on that, it's all I am saying. Not saying that anyone is better than you, because I think it is only natural. Movies get us to feel that way quite often.

 

[MehGuy]

There are reasons I'd walk away from someone who was dying, such as if I found out they were a child molester or they killed my kid or wife.. etc.

Lack of care doesn't always have to do with hate, sometimes it's just plain apathy.. or fear.

 

[elephunky]

So I am wondering if the lack of care for someone is always due to hate.

I don't usually associate hate with indifference.

 

[elephunky]

I do not think I could walk away from someone who is dying regardless of who they are or what they have done. I do not have it in me. It is not for me to decide whether they live or die.

 

[MehGuy]

Yeah.. there is always the chance that major guilt could hit you down the road. Knowing myself, I think my anger would be sufficient enough that there would be a very high chance I'd simply walk by. Although the fear I could get in trouble for letting a man die might kick in too, lol.

 

[dlamberth]

Can you explain to me what you think such a person is saved from in the afterlife?

It's more of being saved from one's self in this life.

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[bhsmte]

So I am wondering if the lack of care for someone is always due to hate.

Probably, but given the right training and the right motive to see the person die, you might not be so caring. I would put my money on that, it's all I am saying. Not saying that anyone is better than you, because I think it is only natural. Movies get us to feel that way quite often.

Why would you think a lack of caring for someone is always due to hate?

The right training and motivation to see a person die??? What is that all about?

 

[MehGuy]

I think she's talking about desensitization from violent films and media? Lol..

 

[dlamberth]

I do not think I could walk away from someone who is dying regardless of who they are or what they have done.

I couldn't walk away either. It's just not in me.

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[oi_antz]

Why would you think a lack of caring for someone is always due to hate?

It often is, I am looking for exclusions to such a generalization. Apathy and fear are interesting to consider.

The right training and motivation to see a person die??? What is that all about?

We are conditioned to behave the way we do. I am saying that some people are able to watch someone die without helping them. I don't know why you think you couldn't be conditioned to do the same, do you?